Entertainer Archive
Thread: sell your body?
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Tangleweb
Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:06 am
#1
i don't think i stand alone when i say this but we entertainers (all of us, ents, dancers, and musicians) are the prostitutes of the galaxy. we hang out in bars and basically sell our bodies day after day to anyone who'll give us some money (whether it be for healing bf and wounds, or doing buffs). as a dancer (and soon to be musician) i understand this, i'm in there whoring myself with you. but what i want to know is why do we do it so cheap? i've seen dancers and musicians doing buffs for as low as 4k, and advertising it! now i understand doing a free buff for a group of peeps you know (especially if you're a combat ent, and you're going into battle with them), and giving a discount to other friends as well, but damn... doing a buff for a total stranger that can make 100k an hour on dant or dath and only charging him (or her) 4k to do it? that's insane! for ent specialists, like myself, buffing is my primary source of income and i figure i'm within my rights to charge what i feel my service is really worth to a customer. someone who can pull in a million a day can afford 10k for a buff. that's chump changefor them! do you understand where i'm coming from? we sell our bodies, and we should get whatwe'reworth! (ooh, that last line is going in my sig!)
Rosaria
Ahazi -master dancer- -soon to be master musician- -and a quick id grind away from master entertainer-
we sell our bodies, and we should get whatwe'reworth!
p.s. i've posted this on the dancer boards and entertainer boards also.
Tangleweb
Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:19 am
#2
i don't think i stand alone when i say this but we entertainers (all of us, ents, dancers, and musicians) are the prostitutes of the galaxy. we hang out in bars and basically sell our bodies day after day to anyone who'll give us some money (whether it be for healing bf and wounds, or doing buffs). as a dancer (and soon to be musician) i understand this, i'm in there whoring myself with you. but what i want to know is why do we do it so cheap? i've seen dancers and musicians doing buffs for as low as 4k, and advertising it! now i understand doing a free buff for a group of peeps you know (especially if you're a combat ent, and you're going into battle with them), and giving a discount to other friends as well, but damn... doing a buff for a total stranger that can make 100k an hour on dant or dath and only charging him (or her) 4k to do it? that's insane! for ent specialists, like myself, buffing is my primary source of income and i figure i'm within my rights to charge what i feel my service is really worth to a customer. someone who can pull in a million a day can afford 10k for a buff. that's chump changefor them! do you understand where i'm coming from? we sell our bodies, and we should get whatwe'reworth! (ooh, that last line is going in my sig!)
Rosaria
Ahazi -master dancer- -soon to be master musician- -and a quick id grind away from master entertainer-
we sell our bodies, and we should get whatwe'reworth!
p.s. i've posted this thread on the dancer and musician forums as well.
Itren
Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:22 am
#3
Problem is, people don't want to pay 10k for just a single stat buff.. dancers do mind, musicians do focus/willpower... now if you were to charge 10k for the complete blue bar package, that would sound fine, otherwise 5k is reasonable for just one or the other.
Beery
Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:20 pm
#4
Tangleweb wrote:
"...but what i want to know is why do we do it so cheap? i've seen dancers and musicians doing buffs for as low as 4k, and advertising it!"
I charge 10K per buff, 15K for a group buff. I think that is more than reasonable. Anyone charging less than that is basically underpricing the market and doing themselves (and me) a disservice.
Straker wrote:
"People tend to consider that since Entertainers don't need resources or buff packs, they shouldn'tget paid as much as a Doc, who needs those."
I sometimes wonder how committed to our modern system ofcapitalism people really are. The game's economic systemisn't meant to bebased on the Marxist ideal of "from each according to hismeans to each according to his needs". A seller's overheads havelittle to do with pricing. Capitalism works on a system of supply and demand. If supply is low and demand is high, the price goes up. Only when demand is low and supply high does overhead come into the equation, since you cannot make a profit by selling an item or servicefor more than you paid for it. Thus, the only difference between a doctor's buff price and that of an entertainer is that in a severelydepressed marketan entertainer can keep selling his service, whereas a doctor cannot. In a healthy market the price is determined by the demand for the item.Overhead doesn't come into it.
It's the same in real life. If I find a painting in a garage sale and buy it for $20, and then if I have it appraised and it's estimated to be worth $500,000, I don't then sell it for $25 simply because it only cost me $20. I sell it at auctionwith a starting bidof $400,000 and I make a bundle. That is the free market.
Straker_Atrella
Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:53 pm
#5
I never said it was right, but whether you like it or not it is a factor.
Many people have been Docs, they are Docs, or they help supply Docs. They know that to buy a full set of buffs, in crates, it costs about 900,000 credits. A Doc selling buffs at about 7k breaks even, a Doc selling buffs at 10-12k turns a fairly sizeable profit. This is about a 30% profit margin. The only thing an Entertainer gives is time, he doesn't pay for his resources (unless he buys tapes.) So this means peoplemay think the Entertainer is making 100% profit.
When you buy a car, which would you buy, the one with the 30% markup, or the one with the 100% markup?
Here is where the AFK bots really hurt the people trying tomake a living from Entertaining. The only thing an Entertainer is giving up is time, that is his resource, it is valuable.The problem is that with all the buffbots, people don't think the Entertainer is actually giving up his time. Basically expecting something for nothing.
It's a mindset that people need to lose. Hopefully when the hologrind dies, and the number of AFKers leave, people willrealize again that real people are there.
Aleyo
Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:59 pm
#6
As a musician who's also a Teras Kasi Artist, I'll write down what I make next time I go grinding missions for money. Then I'll put up a post with some concrete information about the opportunity cost for my entertaining (and that cost won't be accurate (not high enough) either, as I don't bother with solo groups and I don't know where the highest paying missions are that I can handle).
Time is worth quite a bit, and it's time people realized that.
Time is worth quite a bit, and it's time people realized that.
Beery
Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:05 pm
#7
"I never said it was right, but whether you like it or not it is a factor."
Itis nota factor because it doesn't matterwhat they think the price should be based on. Their opinion regarding what's afair price has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. The price will be based on the market, whether they like it or not. Similarly, people who want to buy originalvan Gogh paintings at $25 each can complain all they want. They might argue that van Gogh never sold a picture in his life, so it's wrong to charge millions for each one now, but it won't change the fact that the market determines the price. If they want an original van Gogh, they willhave to pay market for it. Otherwise they have the option of buying a $25 print. In this game, if players don't want to pay what an entertainer is charging, they can makedo without the buff.
Warplex
Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:21 pm
#8
Ok, i'm a 0-3-4-3 TKA. I do solo missions on dat out of an improved job market city. I'll get the stop watch and determine how much i make in an hour.
Straker_Atrella
Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:36 pm
#9
I'm not against supply and demand, but as everybody keeps saying currently there is more supply then demand, because of the AFK buffbots. If they don't like your price, they go to the bot that is tip only and pay what they want.
People will pay what they think something is worth, they base that off of how much good it does them, and how well made something is.
Since you like your paintings so much, answer this, which is worth more the painting in the wood frame, or the painting if the Gold and Gem studded frame. People do consider what it takes to do something, what they don't consider as important is the Entertainers time, which is stupid.
I know how much a combatent can make. If I run missions hardcore on my fighter guy, I can make 1 million in 3 hours.
You want to talk about pricing and supply and demand, good, I'm also a DE. I spend about 60 hours a week doing resources, managing factories, and getting resources. How much do people pay for droids? Not very much. About 80-90k is the most you can get out of people on Scylla. That's for the really high end models. Doctors want Med Droids for 40k, yet they can make millions selling buffs and never need to buy another droid again ever. Harvesting droids go for 75k, they let people harvest 15-20% more. More of a resource they can sell for 100 cpu! Again they buy 1 and never need another.
If I try and charge more, you get complaints from people, I have actually had people say "Your already getting 15 cpu for the droid, that enough profit." It doesn't matter that they may make millions from the Droid, they wont pay more then they think it is worth.
Did I mention droids don't wear out, so no repeat business?
Honestly no BS, I coudl make more money sellnig mind buffs.
Trust me, especially in a game like SWG, people do consider what it costs to make something.
Now again, I totally think Entertainer services are worth 10k or more. The problem is that most consumers don't realize that the valuable resource you are selling is you time.
Tangleweb
Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:03 pm
#10
i think 7k for one or the other is fine and 10k for the full blue bar since they already have your attention.
Rosaria
Ahazi -master dancer- -soon to be master musician- -and a quick id grind away from master entertainer-
Tangleweb
Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:35 pm
#11
thank you stra, someone who understands what i'm getting at! go check out this thread on the dancer forums, they're all up in arms that i used the word prostitute and whore, totally missing the point that i wsa trying to make. but thank you for understanding.
Rosaria
Ahazi -master dancer- -soon to be master musician- -and a quick id grind away from master entertainer-
we sell our bodies, and we should get whatwe'reworth!
bawler14
Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:22 pm
#12
Don't get on the Dancers case, Rosaria. Peoplewho refer to dancers with those words should get flames. The titles or a Dancer are Dazzler, Captivator, Choreographer and Enthraller and Master Dancer.
If you've been around awhile, you should know what happened when the Dev's attempted to name the entertainer district in cities "Red Light District"? However, you obviously don't know better. If you use derisive demeaning languge, prepare to get flamed. People see "Sell your bodys?" and are ticked from the get go.
Calling the people you're preaching to "whores" won't earn you respect, nor friends no matter how valid your points. You want to make a difference, start a "Buff Union" and agree to a base price, but don't drop a deragatory flame inciting post to make a point. It won't work, now or in the future.
Beery
Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:44 pm
#13
Bawler is spot on with his comments. I used to be a Master Dancer, and to tell the truth, the only thing that stopped me saying anything about theprostitute comment was the fact that I'm now no longer a dancer. If I was a dancer, you'd have felt my wrath by now.
The whole dancer = prostitute thing is something thatis bound to provoke a negative reaction fromdancers. They are often treated like prostitutes by ignorantplayers.
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