CUEmu - Thread Posts

Sandsifter

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:02 am

Another game out there, one far more successful than SWG. It recently broke the 2 million subscriber makr and is being released in China so expect that to double.

However as we all know, that game is for kiddies and casual players who cry foul when someone else is better than them. Everyone over there is the same, regardless off effort, gear, and skills because its a dumbed down level based game. I guess I can see why it appeals to the masses who've grown up on fast food and have short attention spans and desire instant gratiphication.

Thankfully, we as consumers always had an alternative, SWG where effort, time, skills, etc mattered and rewarded the player. I didnt quite understand the anger by armorsmiths and others from the CU very well. Now after reading whats coming from Pub 18 I do. Since the CU, the devs have seen fit to turn this game into a dumbed down version (they like to call it having more broad appeal, their exact words from Celebration 3) of its former self. And frankly, Im a bit surprised there isnt a huge public outcry over this ? Not only are the changes awful for our profession, they as usual from SOE have serious bugs. So once again, we get to pay to be beta testers for SOE.

The following changes...

CL5 = 1 - 55 Combat Rating
CL10 = 56 - 110 Combat Rating
CL15 = 111 - 165 Combat Rating
CL20 = 166 - 220 Combat Rating
CL25 = 221 -275 Combat Rating
CL30 =276 + Combat Rating

What this means is anyone can get their droids to the cap combat level of 30. Most can do it with only one combat module. There is no point in putting in a second module for combat if you already achieved +276 as you've reached the cap.

You can stack the effects of Combat Modules and Droid Armor together, inorder to gain the CL30 Rating. Simply add the bonus of the Armor Module to the bonus of the Combat Module.

Therefore any smith, even a 10 point smith with crummy resources will easily be able to craft the exact same droid as me.Why the heck did I bother to save resources for years in preparation for becoming a droid engineer ? Why did I bother to collect a +25 droid experiment / +27 droid assembly / +22 artisan experiment / +23 artisan assembly suit ???

This reminds me of World of Warcraft. Take a resource (stats dont exist) and combine them into a final product. Finished product, leather gloves for example, always have the same stats. And to think, I used to laugh at their so-called crafting system that anyone can do regardless of talent, resources, and effort. This publish makes almost the same as WoW now bleh.

This may be the final straw for me. I almost quit a few times since the CU devastated the game and left me guildless and without most of my friends. Now what little pride I had for my crafted goods is gone. Can someone tell me why I should go on ? And why isnt there more outrage over this ? Are we so battle fatigued and jaded that we just take another one on the chin from SOE ?

Icebolt - MDE, MA, Tailor

Message Edited by Sandsifter on 06-15-2005 07:20 AM

scot740

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:20 am

#2

They are doing this because they do not have their arms around the existing (soon to not be) crafting system. It's obviously too complex for them to consider the possibilities of making crafted items that might get outside of the designated "softcaps" on them. Weapons got too powerful, armor got too protective, so now it's time to dumb it down so much that everything crafted will fall within a 20% range of stats no matter what you use. That way they don't have to look at the real issues with the crafting system. We have a nice little box we can all play in so we don't make anything too nice and powerful that might devastate the balance of the game. This type of crafting is exactly why WoW or EQ2 had no lasting power with me. Insert generic resource here, insert generic component there, voila... generic item produced! Gee...this is going to be fun!

BAYLOR TETRAN HEDRICK

DROID ENGINEER MAYOR ROGUE

TUSKEN'S BANE, TATOOINE

Sandsifter

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:27 am

#3

They are doing this because they do not have their arms around the existing (soon to not be) crafting system. It's obviously too complex for them to consider the possibilities of making crafted items that might get outside of the designated "softcaps" on them. Weapons got too powerful, armor got too protective, so now it's time to dumb it down so much that everything crafted will fall within a 20% range of stats no matter what you use. That way they don't have to look at the real issues with the crafting system. We have a nice little box we can all play in so we don't make anything too nice and powerful that might devastate the balance of the game. This type of crafting is exactly why WoW or EQ2 had no lasting power with me. Insert generic resource here, insert generic component there, voila... generic item produced! Gee...this is going to be fun!

Agree 100%

First they simplified the complexities of combat by removing a 3 tier system of health / action / mind because it was too complex. Then they removed resists from mobs. And finally, they killed crafting.

The best thing about SWG was its complexity. Now its a shell of its former self. If I wanted to play a shallow game where everyone was the same, I'd still be playing WoW. I might have to go back, at least the bugs arent nearly as bad.

With each patch and publish my hope diminishes that SOE will fix the game. Each one seems to take a little more enjoyment out of the game. How can SOE not see these changes are bad ???

Sandsifter

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:35 am

#4

sometimes i wonder if the former devs who first designed this game are saddened by the changes and angry. The current ones seemingly say its broken and have stripped it of all its benefits.

Bviper47

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:37 am

#5

Basicly think about the game this way. The devs are NEVER going to make the game MORE complex, so there is only one way to go. Its sad, they want to make it apealing to new players without caring to older players. Eventually it gets so non complex it will turn in to WoW.

-Apato Toggi

Master Artisan (14 Point)(+25 Assembly)
Master Droid Engineer (12 Point) (+25 Assembly)
Master Merchant

Certified Mandalorian Engineer: to date 18 Jetpacks and 5 Mando Helms sucessfully made
But lacking a jetpack of his own

thanks NGE for nerfing loot!

scot740

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:39 am

#6

The fact of the matter is this game was too ambitious from the get go for the talent they had. Now that the original team is gone that created many of the concepts, we can't believe that Team B/C can figure it out, or want to. Why bother fixingit when they simply stick a bandaid on it.

BAYLOR TETRAN HEDRICK

DROID ENGINEER MAYOR ROGUE

TUSKEN'S BANE, TATOOINE

IceTigger

Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:11 am

#7

For those not aware of it, a Droid Eng. 0243 can make a combat droid equal to a master even before the combat re-vamp. The only piece in question is the Combat Module and it is pretty easy to get 950+ conductivity/quality copper. Specifically, an Advanced Probobot with five combat modules and two level 3 armor modules. The combat rating would be between 500 and 550 and the armor would be slightly lighter then a master. No factory runs required, no specific resources required, and no skill tapes needed.

Straker_Atrella

Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:40 am

#8

The thing that bother me most was the crafting part of SWG was the one thing that wasn't broken. Combat was broken, the GCW needed work, content needed added, yet crafting and the entire business side of SWG was fine.

All that they needed to do was leave crafting as it was and make small changes for professions like DE, Arch, and Tailor that people asked for.

The real problem is that in WOW or EQ2, crafting is not a full time job, it is a diversion, it doesn't need to be complex. In SWG, crafting needs to be complex. Crafting can totally be a full time job and is for many people. If you make crafting simple, then crafters will get bored and quit. This is something that needs to be hammered home to them. I'm not talking about itme sinks, I am talking about complication, experiance, and dedication.

There is no way that myself with over 3000 hours of droid crafting, scraped and collected resources for a year and a half, built a DE crafting suit, and is full crafting Force sensitive, should be making exactly the same droids as somebody who started last week. It's garbage.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

Sandsifter

Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:25 am

#9

I agree it is garbage. However the kiddies here who are enjoying it dont see it that way. They think anyone who complains is some ubber lete dude who is whining because they're no longer better than everyone. Reminds me of trying to reason with my son.

It is totally ridiculous that my chems that I gathered a year ago no longer give my droid an extra 120 health over someone elses regardless of their resource quality.

Im still haunted by what Tiggs said at Celebration 3..."we want the game to have more broad appeal" ie they want the WoW kiddie market and to bad for the vets who stuck by us.

Drashk

Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:28 am

#10

Everyone in the DE community also needs to /bug it like there is no tomorrow.

If need be, cut and paste some of what I have written and post it here Pulbish 18 Bug Thread

Give as much detail as you can on the same bugs over and over. That is how the Elemental damage was pulled.

Message Edited by Drashk on 06-15-2005 11:29 AM

Making SWG more Star Warsy. One droid at a time.

Akkori

Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:38 pm

#11

DE has been the one thing that will break the deal. If they ruin droids, I will quit. I dont go around threatening to quit, check my history. But the fact is, I joined SWG to be a DE. There is another crafting game out there called A Tale In The Desert that has a MUCH more complex crafting system, and NO COMBAT. But its much slower paced too, and even more so if you are a solo player. I will quit SWG and focus there. My patience has just about run out.

Odano Akkori
First Mayor of Tempest
Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Rifleman, Swordsman
Jedi will never be a starting profession...Looted items and quest items will never be better then crafted items, this is not a loot based game...CH will return shortly...CH and BE will not be back in game...Rangers are getting their revamp next!...The stealth system will not be changing in the spy expertise...Need any more examples of things the devs said that did not hold true?

Xix13

Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:58 pm

#12

Has anybody heard an ETA on when the REAL developers are returning from vacation so the interns can go back to doing pizza and donut runs? Publish 18 is just a nightmare!

-- Xixor (FS Master Doc/Master Pistoleer -- CANCELLED) "I know what you're thinking: Why, oh why, didn't I take the BLUE pill?"
-- Xixasaurus (Padawanasaurus/Privateer) "Green is Good"
-- Xixette (12pt-Master Artisan/12pt-Master DE/12pt-Master WS) "Think Pink!"
-- Xixell (FS Master Pikeman/Master Swordsman/Rebel Pilot) -- "Anybody for some ants?"
-- Xixdoggie Dawg (Master Rifledogg/Master Ranger) "Woof"
-- XixTheFish (12-pt Master Chef)

Snigo

Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:20 pm

#13

I think there's not more outrage over this because most people that would be outraged have already given up. The devs, or whoever's in charge, are making it very clear where they're taking SWG. They want a much simpler product not only for the new audience they're trying to attract but also to make it easier for them to maintain. Let's face it, the complexity of the SWG crafting system was a lot for them to maintain and manage, from the number of unique items that filled their databases to the huge variability in crafting depending on resources and experimentation.

It's all about keeping costs down. SWG did not have the subscription numbers they wanted and therefore did not have the desired profit margin. Someone decided to gamble on a change to a simplified system bringing in more subscribers and lowering maintenance costs. Unfortunately I think their poor implementation will work against them and make it unlikely SWG will become any more profitable in the future.

I've stuck around this long post-CU because this account was on a 3 month subscription. I keep hoping for some indication that things will improve but everything I've seen so far has just convinced me that the non-combat game in SWG is dying and there's no intention of reviving it. This subscription is about to run outand although I plan on logging in to mothball my stuff so I can come back in a few months if things improve right now after the Pub 18 changes I doubt I'll ever come back. I'm torn between turning everything I have left over to a couple guildmates that are still playing to help them out and just deleting everything out of protest.

I wonder if anything would have been different if all crafters had just gone on strike and refused to make anything after the CU. If SOE/LucasArts would have had to admit that they needed non-combatants to make a game with a player based economy work or if they would have just quickly added NPC crafters to hand out whatever was needed.

Zenae - MArtisan/MDE/MMerchant/Pikeman
Mayor of Mos Vegas, Tatooine
retired Mdoc/MFencer
(Expires 6/16/05 unless I see a reason to renew by then)

Rhoda - MDoc/MFencer/Fun-Loving Rhodian (Cancelled)

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