Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Fundamental Question Concerning the DE-only Combat Droids Concept
Eutock wrote:
Droid-Creator wrote:
We are asking for one MDE only combat droid that is slightly better than the combat droids we can sell. Yes, slightly better, not uber to the point that people will want to burn all the skillpoints and time to get MDE.
How doyou envision this 'slightly better' combat droid? Is it a different droid frame than what is sellable, or is it just a slightly better combat(i.e. attack) module?
The reason I ask is, if the MDE-exclusive droid is a different frame, people will start seeing that unique frame and asking you 'how much' to purchase that droid. Since the droid will be so incredibly unique, more than likely any MDE with this droid will be inundated with requests to purchase it, because everyone assumes that a droid called out by an MDE must be special. For an example of this try walking around with a BLL following you.
In other words, a unique MDE droid would be a curse, a curse that could only be used in the remotest of wildernesses or on the adventure planets, and even in those places, the spotting of the MDE droid will only peak people's interest further.
Eventually, there will be a call from Master DE's to make the frame sellable, even if the sellable frame is 'slightly lower' in combat capabilities than the MDE version.
This is an issue I posted in another thread. I feel it is significant enough to put in a new message. If it has already been brought up in this manner, my apologies, but it is nonetheless an issue I would like to find the answers to.
I have been reading through this forum to best understand the positions concerning DE-only combat droids, and this is a thought I stumbled onto today. Specifically, I'm contemplating the ramifications of DE-only combat droids.
As the quote above alludes to, I am wondering, simply, how DE-only combat droids will be able to stay DE-only combat droids. It's no secret that the general SWG community wants droids, and new droids, and of course new combat droids. Supposing that DE-only combat droids are implemented, what will non-DE's think of these droids? Unless these new droids look like cardboard boxes, I'm willing to bet that a significant number of players are going to drool over them (As an example to the 'drool' factor, you'll easily find new players that will look at probots and, yes, even DZ70's, and think, wow, cool droid, I need to get one of those. I think everyone knows the rest of this story.).
The first thing they will ask the DE is 'how much for that baby'? And the DE's response will be, "Sorry, this combat droid is only for DE's." Well, at that point I can just imagine the outrage and anger that non-DE's will experience, specifically those that heavily lean towards combat professions.
There will be pressure from the SWG community to make those exclusive frames available to all. I don't see any reason why there would not be pressure to make those frames available to all. If DE's want them, non-DE's will want them too. The pressure may be precluded by resentment towards DE's (i.e. "why do you get this cool combat droid and I can't?").
The result of this will be to make the droid frame available to everyone, but as a compromise give DE's higher combat capabilities to their equivalent droid frames. For example, as was posted in response to my above quote, non-DE's would get the basic Droideka, and the advanced Droideka would go to DE's only, which will have higher combat stats.
This point presents a fork in the road. If the non-DE and DE frames vary significantly in terms of combat strength, the non-DE's would logically want that extra combat strength as well. This argument would specifically be, "I'm a commando/gunfighter/squad leader/etc and I need that extra combat power, I'm willing to pay for it, why is it only available to those puny DE's?" A non-DE could even turn the argument on it's head and say, "DE's are not fighters, give THEM the weaker combat droids!"
The second part of the 'fork' is the scenario that DE-only combat droids are only marginally more powerful that their non-DE counterparts. But if this is the case, would there truely be a reason to build and use the advanced (DE-only) version of the combat droid? Maybe some DE's will invest the time to build these advanced droids for the marginal combat improvement, but many would probaby not waste the time or resources in doing so for a marginal improvement.
In other words, non-DE vs. DE-only combat droids would meet in some middle ground via a nerf, or the difference between the two will be practically insignificant.
Keep in mind that I'm not addressing issues such as certifications, how non-DE's will get combat droids,etc. Nor am I trying to address the gameplay implications. Iam only trying to find out how the DE-only combat droids concept will not buckle under from community pressure.
Why worry about others when our own DE's want to rain on our own parade.
Wanji wrote:
Why worry about others when our own DE's want to rain on our own parade.
No kiddin'. Did the CHs bag on themselves this much?
Everyone wants things only other profession have access to: flamethrowers, graul maulers, ability to use BH droids (No! not BH-only droids! Save us!), etc. No one is really surprised that only CHs can use lvl 70 creature pets, that BHs get eye-shot (or whatever it is), that architects can build furniture. All professions have and should have some degree of exclusivity to what they do and to the equipment they can use --otherwise we'd all be in the same profession. What if -- *gasp* -- DEs had some cool droids that they, as Droid Engineers, alone could use? Perish the thought! People might get jealous! They might no longer call us gimps with pocket protectors! NOOOOO!!!!
Droid engineers have acces to something, to do something, that is incredibly unique in this game. We get to build the droids! Personally, I find that incredibly cool, interesting, and fun. To know that others areusing your droid creationsin their journeys through the virtual galaxy is very neat, in my humble pocket-protector opinion.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Everyone wants things only other profession have access to:
I've got to agree with Eutock here, the special thing we get is the ability to create droids (and according the the devs, soon use more than one at a time). This is in line with the fact that this is a crafting profession, it was designed to produce and sell droids. If you try to jurry rig it into a combat profession at this point it will take time (my guess would be 4-6 months after the space expansion) to be done right, or it wouldbe done quickly, with very questionable success and leave the majority of the people (those who wanted and and those who didn't) unhappy.
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
One must wonder about his motivation
This is the most practical point of combat droids, that they won't be coming anytime soon. Given SOE'sstated priorities, and TH's statement about the lack of development resources, the timeline will most likely be measured in years, not months.
Jenden wrote:
If you try to jurry rig it into a combat profession at this point it will take time (my guess would be 4-6 months after the space expansion) to be done right, or it wouldbe done quickly, with very questionable success and leave the majority of the people (those who wanted and and those who didn't) unhappy.
Droid-Creator wrote:
Jenden and his personal crusade to deny his fellow DEs something they desire....though if we got it it would not impact him at all.
One must wonder about his motivation
I disagree that Jenden is on any personal crusade withulteriormotives. Having read his posts the last several days, he is the most articulate and persistent defender of the reasoning of why DE is an artisan class and not a fighter class. He does it with counter-arguments to questions posed by him, mostly revolving around issues concerning game balance.
Actually, he's ignored several "game balance" questions... heh.
For example...regarding his claim that DE's are a "non-combat class", he ignores the fact that a MasterDE may have up to 158 points invested in combat professions. Does the fact that CH's have no weapon skills in their own tree make THEM a "non-combat class"?
Wouldn't comparable MDE-only droids serve the same function for us?
Grimjakk wrote:Actually, he's ignored several "game balance" questions... heh.
For example...regarding his claim that DE's are a "non-combat class", he ignores the fact that a MasterDE may have up to 158 points invested in combat professions. Does the fact that CH's have no weapon skills in their own tree make THEM a "non-combat class"?
Wouldn't comparable MDE-only droids serve the same function for us?
You know arguments that you have no rebuttle for go ignored on boards
Grimjakk wrote:
Actually, he's ignored several "game balance" questions... heh.
For example...regarding his claim that DE's are a "non-combat class", he ignores the fact that a MasterDE may have up to 158 points invested in combat professions. Does the fact that CH's have no weapon skills in their own tree make THEM a "non-combat class"?
Wouldn't comparable MDE-only droids serve the same function for us?
Not ignored, just didn't see, I do do other things besides sit on the forums. There's a fundamental difference between creature pets and droids. It is fairly obvious that the primary purpose of pets is combat, as they can't do anything else. It is equally as obvious that droids primary purpose IN THIS GAME (I'm not getting into any continuity stuff here) is, right now at least, not combat. If DE had been set up as a combat class, not a crafting class, then you could use this argument, but it wasn't.
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
If an MDE wants a better combat droid just for himself he should be free to build himself the best droid he can make - but the next one down should also be free to sell it to someone else.
If you want to get down to brass tacks, perhaps the DE should be required to have parts only a WS can make if he wants to build a droid that can do things like fire blaster bolts. Bet that's a popular opinion (sarcasm). Being able to build droid-mountable equivalents of most weapons would actually rock and make the demand for highly skilled combat droids soar. That's where the DEs skills would come in - making an agile, smart droid capable of having high skill levels with weapons. The problem comes in that there would be nothing to stop an unskilled newbie from aquiring one of these droids and cleaning up. Not a simple problem, no simple solution.