Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: REQUIRED READING: Centralized Droid Issues (23/09/03 10:00pm PST)
This list is updatedas needed (daily doesn't work anymore since changes aren't as often anymore)and is meant to supplement the work done by the current correspondant and provide an idea of where this profession currently stands. Please read it over and provide any information you have regarding any of these issues, or any new issues you may have discovered.
I am a Master Droid Engineer on Bloodfin (Lime Akob). I also participated in the beta as a DE and bring a lot of knowledge of the profession from those days. However, I am one person and need your help to make sure that we've got all the real bugs nailed down, so we don't have DEVs chasing issues that don't exist due to confusion on our part.
Thanks to our correspondant for all the work done so far. Try not to makethe correspondants' lives difficult bybadgeringthemfor answers that they may not have. They're still only players like the rest of us. Players who have volunteered to organize and prioritize this information and present it to the DEVs. I'm sure any discussions between the correspondant and the DEVs will be shared with us regardless of how insignificant it may be.
We now have a voice, and the DEVs are listening to that voice. Hopefully I'll be able to start removing items from this list instead of just adding new ones.
Many, many, many thanks and respect to all those who have contributed. My personal thanks to Tyim for starting this thread during beta and for starting it up again now that we're live. Also, thanks to the devs who have worked like fiends only to be ranted at and badgered. Special thanks to any dev that cares to respond to this post.
1.Recent updates
2.Bugs still in evidence
3.Uncertainties
4.Wishlist
1. Recent updates
A.Added new uncertainty regarding armor resists degrading.
B.Removed 'release' wishlist item since 'release' has been replaced with 'store'. Owners who transfer their pets to others can suffer 
C.Re-added droid deed bug where the deeds don't show all the modules installed (only some).
D.Added new bug regarding the ability to call more than one droid at a time.
E.Added new bug regarding the datapad radial menu for droids.
F.Many minor changes, including clarifications and 'exploit' tags for bugs many consider to be exploits.
2. Bugs still in evidence
A.Droids are not giving any UXP
B.Droid names use the standard name filter.This may beby design, butwe're calling it a bug because droids should use a modified name filter that allows for numbers in the name. Yes, Artoo-Deetoo works fine, but I've seen NPC droids wandering around with REAL droid names. So we should be allowed to do the same.
C.Information in the datapad no longer lists the commands programmed for the droid (new droids only). Give them back!
D.Droids with no attack capabilities none the less have attack speeds and damage base modifiers in the datapad.
E.Experimentation on droid parts has no noticeable effect on final droid (experimentation seems to alter the part quality, but no end effect is observed... 5 point HAM difference on a probot doesn't count). Resources also fall into this area since resource properties influence the experimental property values. There is no point to experiment either on droid components or the final product. The droids seem to all function about the same.
F. The advanced droidchassisschematics allow for colour. However, the final droid loses this colour. This is an improvement, but the bug remains. Droids themselves are stilluncolourable (they tell us they removed this from thepatch since it was not complete).
G. Droids often stop following without reason. This is a generic pet problem as it happens to all pets, not just droids.Pets seem toget stuck on invisible zone boundries.Walking up to about 10-20m from thepet and re-issuing a 'follow' command fixes it (most of the time).
H.Item Storage Module 2s coming out as Data Module 2s during the assembly stage. What you seem to get at the end is a Data Module 2. This is only a NAME problem. The module is said to function as it should - as an ItemStorage Module 2.
I. Droids dragged from the datapad to the secure trade window are invisible. Secure trade itself DOES work, but until we can see the droid in the trade window, this is a bug. If it does not exist for bazaars and vendors as well, then this should also be implemented for them. Secure trade is important when you're selling something like a droid.
J. Droid repair kits are fubar. With the droid out in the world, or in your datapad, you always seem to get the error message 'You don't have anything in need of repair (make sure your weapons are unequiped)'... Yes, this was a DROID repair kit.
K.Multiple crafting stations in a single droid breaks the crafting modules in the droid. Only one of the modules seems to work when this happens. Crafting modules also seem to break when the droid's crafting field intersects crafting fields from other droids orstationary crafting stations.
L.Droid deeds shouldn't be tossed into the misc area of the bazaar. They're deed versions of entities. Give droids a proper home so that people can actually find them with ease.
M.EXPLOIT: Cluster modules not only fit into cluster module sockets, they fit into service module sockets.This allows cluster modules to fit into cluster modules ad infinitum. Thishas the added effect thatcluster module slots are nowpointless and allows any number of modules to be placed in any droid. Clusters should only fit in cluster sockets. Otherwise you're further exploiting the idea that the droid frame used is irrelevant.
N.Skills for the Droid Engineer don't reach +100 at Master. Droid Assembly and Droid Experimentation only go as high as +55. Droid Customization (currently useless) goes to +64. Other engineering professions get skill adds like assembly/customization/experimentation at novice. Droid Engineers get squat.
O.Repairmodules do not functionat all when placed in an LE Repair droid or Power droid.
P.Medical modulesaffect the effectiveness of stimpacks. Reports say that a stimpack is more effective when a medical module-equipped droid is nowhere to be seen (unless it contains a level 6 module).
Q.Droids and components have been changed so that some of the experimental values have been removed from the schematics. However, these values remain during crafting and experimentation. As such, they are always 0%.
R.Droid deeds need to show ALL the modules installed and any important properties associated with those modules.
S.EXPLOIT: By telling a droid to stay, running 800m (need to cross a server zone?) or so away and calling another droid, you can effectively call all your droids at once.
T.Datapad controls seem to be partially broken. The radial menu's defaultoptions appear, but the context sensitiveoptions for droids, like "call", don't always appear when selecting a droid control device.
3. Uncertainties
A.Is your droid supposed to travel with you when you take a shuttle? The datapad now thinks that the droid has returned to the datapad. Can anyone verify that this is what is really happening? Is the droid being left behind (have someone ELSE check after you leave the shuttle port to see if the droid is left behind)?
B.Patrol point list is not saved between store and call, is this by design?
C. Some droids, when given a repair module, gain a 'repair other droid' option in the program menu. Some, when out, add a 'repair' option in the radial menu of OTHER droids. I can only assume that both are possible. 'Converse' droids do not have a programmable 'repair' command, but usually allow the repair option to appear in nearby droids (I've never seen this myself). Seems a little inconsistent. Also, the power droids and repair droids with a repair module do not grant the 'repair' option in other droids.
D. Power droidsare the onlydroid with a non-modular function (ignoring combat capable droids here). Repair droids have had their repair systems removed and changed into a module. R droids have had their crafting functions removed and changed into modules. Power droids remain as an inherent function. Can we get some consistency here?
E. Some of the advanced droids are using 'Converse' instead of 'Program' for programming. Nobody seems to know how to name these droids. Can it be done?
F.Protocol droids(basic model only)and Binary Load Lifters (both basic and advanced) seem rather useless.Protocol droidsdon't help with languages, since everyone who cares about languages already knows all the languages. BLLs don't lift any loads.Neither of these droids have room for any modules. So, from what I'm hearing, they're just a nice droid to look at. Anyone find a good use for either of these?
G.Can friends of the droid use the droid's modules? Or just the owner? (Note that you can use crafting modules by being near ANY droid with one, regardless of your relationship with the owner)
H.The only difference betweenmedical module 1 and medical module 6 from what I read is the boost it gives to medial skills. Some people believe that it should also restrict which medic skills you should be able to use.What's the real story behind them?
I.Item storage modules do not seem to be working with some converse type droids. The option to use item storage is not available in the radial menu. I have one report that they work with the basic LE Repair droid, and several stating that they do not work with Surgical droids. Anyone care to test all the converse droids (both regular and adv models) and give feedback as to which ones work and which do not?
J.Many of the 'level' based service modules stack. However, there arecaps in place which make stacking kind of pointless with thehigher level modules. Also,by stacking lower modules, you can achieve the same effect as a higher level module, reducing the point of using a higher level module. This is further enchanced by the cluster module bug. Also, when crafting the droid, the stacking results show values which do not take the cap into consideration. So a droid while being crafted can show a storage value of 15, but the final storage when the droid is tamed is capped at 10. Which is intended? Stacking or no stacking?
K.Nobody seems to know if the armorrating is working properly. Is Medium armor on droids acting as Medium armor should? Or is the damage reduction simply based on the resists?
L.Some people are reporting that armor resists sometimes degrade. Can anyone confirm this? (Screenshots are always nice)
4.Wishlist
A.Advanced droid engineers should be able to call more then onedroid at a time. Repair modules and power droids might see a little more use if this were changed.
B.Give us information on droid power levels in the examine window and/or in the datapad. Also,since droid batteries repair mind,how about using mind as the droid's power level indicator? The action pool would also work.
C.Examining droid should give thesame data as in the datapad (for the owner).
D.We really want certain droids to only be able to take certain types of modules. There have been a number of really good posts on this topic, and due to space constraints, I'll leave it at that.
E.Take another look atthe “only able to callpets in city or camp” thing. I understand the logic and personally have no problems with it. However, many disagree with it and I think it would work better if it was that you can only call a droid when not in combat, or acertain distance from a battlefield.
F.Consider droids that can survey and report back on a particular resource. Perhaps even a high-end versionwith the ability to go toother planetsto determine which resources are available.
G. Consider droids that can help maintain installations. Senda droid out to pay mantenance. Send a droid out to collect resources. Send a droid out to deliver power. There are many ways to implement this as a viable system.
H. Consider droids that can act as standalone vendors in cities, and/or droids that can act as Barkers. Perhaps even let droids deliver goods to a customer in another city or on another planet.
I. Droids to remember if they were stored or called over a logout. Running around in the middle of nowhere and logging out causes your droid to hide back in the datapad. This means having to go back to town or putting down a camp in order to recall your droid. This is undesireable.
J. Now that perma death has been removed and replaced with the pet 'vitality' system, I have to say kudos for the change. However, it doesn't make sense to give vitality packs to droids. Perhaps a DE equivalent could be used? Same deal, just a different name, and craftable by DEs?
K. There have been several complaints regarding the 5 droid in the datapad limit. While there are some compelling arguments AGAINST this wishlist item, it would be nice to at least have this limit reviewed.
L.Give us Droidekais and other combat droids.
M. Create aslicing module. This module would allow smugglers to get a boost to their slicing ability. We're not interested in putting anyone out of a job here. R2 could slice terminals in the movies, why not our droids?
N.Allow us to drop batteries into the droid's inventoryand have itrecharge itself as needed until the batteries run out.
O.Create an entertainment module akin to the existing medical module to allow entertainers to work ouside of camps, cantinas and hotels. This module would be also level 1-6 with each level giving a little extra boost to the entertainer's skill.
P.Saw a request for a training droid as seen in the movies that 'harasses' its target, pulling aggro. Thisidea is intended togive a little variety to the Novice DE's life. Could also be used as a consumable for training the combat classes.
Q.Let usname our droids through the datapad controller. Droids shouldn't need to be 'taught' a name like pets do. The name is programmed into the droid separate from the other commands.
R.Add the creator to the droid view information, not just theowner. When you look at a pistol, you seewho made it. When you look at a droiddeed, you see who made it. When you look at a droid, you SHOULD see who made it.
S.Allow droids to be re-deeded forease of transfer. Since we can only have 5 droids in the datapad, it makes it really tough forDE's to take old droids astrade-ins for upgrades (like a car). We either have to immediately re-sell the droid or delete it. Would make more sense to re-deed the droid so that itcould be sold to another customer as a 'used droid'.
T.Droid "macros" came up last post. Let us create macro-like droid programs to have a droid execute a series of commands. Not sure how this would be implemented, but it is an idea.
U.Here are some ideas that people have for Protocol Droids. Allow them to have a custom converse menu, programmed by the owner so that the droid can act like a walking FAQ. Turn them into magic 8 balls. Language translator (for non-pc languages?)
V.Make the droid deeds show pictures of the droid itself rather than a silly deed icon.
W.Enough with the 'tame' thing... let us 'activate' or simply 'use' the deeds to first create our droids.
This bug was on the list in the past but isn't there now (even though it still exists). Master DE's probably don't notice (since they've capped Droid XP) or don't care (since they don't need any more XP), but it stinks for those still climbing the DE tree.
Crafting an R2 ADV Droid Chassis grants zero droid crafting XP. It uses 210 chemical, there should be some XP from that.
Crafting an R2 ADV Droid Chassis grants zero droid crafting XP. It uses 210 chemical, there should be some XP from that.
It was removed because people were reporting that they were getting XP for it again. Guess I'll have to check this one out to be sure.
NEW,
I am having problems with Calling my droids.
Please, if anyone else is experiencing this post a reply so we can bug it.
Symptoms are: when I go to the data pad to call the droid, I have to try several times to get it to appear on the radial menu, and sometimes I even have to take a step forward.
That is a common bug system wide. Even CH are complaining about it on their boards. Some glitch in the calling of ANY pet at this time.
Gorantoth wrote:
Crafting an R2 ADV Droid Chassis grants zero droid crafting XP. It uses 210 chemical, there should be some XP from that.
It was removed because people were reporting that they were getting XP for it again. Guess I'll have to check this one out to be sure.
It's possible people are confused. You get XP for creating the deed of the advanced R2 in the final combine, it's for the Chassis that you get no XP. That's a difference that some people may not have understood.
I didn't see it posted but I think there should be a "balance" section in there, since it was one of the things in the recent poll to address (balance as in fix professions, not balance as in the economic stuff they had in the last poll topic).
My top DE balance issues:
1. Combat droids for DEs should behave the same as pets for CH (ability touse more capable,higher HAM units, andhave multiple droids out at the same time for example).
2. Combat droids for non-DEs should behave the same as pets for non-CH (single droid, capped dmg/HAM).
3. Droid models should have specific abilities useful to other professions, as other professions have useful abilities to DEs. Medics can heal, slicers can open containers we need, etc... Very few droids have any useful purpose to the general community, which makes them less desirable in the open market.
4. This is not DE specific, but for overall balance in professions, I think that the dependency on other professions needs to be increased. A self sufficient profession isn't good for the game, and tends to isolate issues and the community. In the DE case, a medical module would need something from a medic or bio-engineer, very much like MA can only make specific parts. Similarily, architects would need parts from DEs like actuatorts, etc... Problem is, dependencies in the same branch make it less useful.
Z.
Remember: To kill your nme, show them a picture of an AT-ST
Novice DE - Rifleman - Eclipse
Gorantoth wrote:
S.EXPLOIT: By telling a droid to stay, running 800m (need to cross a server zone?) or so away and calling another droid, you can effectively call all your droids at once.
Woot! I missed this. Why even tell the devs about it? We should be able to call more than one droid anyway.
A new bug has cropped up recently that until last night was just a minor problem for me. Droids storing themselves for no reason.
Last night i was in a fight with 2 Vicious Huf Duns. My pet probot was tanking them when all of the sudden in mid battle Probot stored itself, I got the group has been disbanded message, and found myself staring at 2 angry huf duns. Needless to say this is not an acceptable bug, and needs to be addressed as soon as possible.
Great list. =)
Some additional info that may (or may not) be relevant...
2D - Non-combat droids understand the attack command as well even though you can't teach it to them - you just say "attack". I was experimenting on this with a friend the other night. We dueled, and he told his R3 to attack me. I got the combat music and started automatically defending myself against the droid (luckily I didn't have a weapon equipped) but the droid didn't actually attack me.
2P - I'm not sure about Stims, but this is definitely true for Enhance Packs. I was in a camp showing a friend an old DZ-70 I had that had a Med 2 module in it while we were buffing. This was on a Master Doc char, and buffs alway go for 600-2500, but with the droid out I got 300. I believe Enhance Packs are treated like wound packs, so this isn't really any different than low level Med Modules superceding the Med Center. Unless that was fixed, in which case it seems broken for camps...
3H - I assumed it was always calculated as a percentage of the Med Center. So with a lower level module your wound healing would be less effective. I don't believe it's intended to affect anything else.
3L - What this might be is perhaps a display bug. I've looked at multiple different droids with L6 armor and sometimes it'll say 40% for all resists, and sometimes there will be 1-4 entries that are missing and listed as vulnerabilities. But if you examine the same droid later all the resist will be back.
Great post Gorantoth, I agree fullywith you.
Some other things I was interested in...
1) Making Probots a little more usefull, they only have 810 HAM almost identical to a full grown Vynok, which is a non-ch pet. Probots need to have a purpose, being the only Droid attempt at combat they are incredibly underpowered. Compared to CH pets, I seriously doubt that a probot is even closely matched to a Full grown Troton or Rancor.
2) Making more variations of modules possibly a weapons upgrade module. Allowing non-probot droids to fight, and making more combat related droids. A droid used for maming would be nice, one that stuns or lowers the mob's accuracy.
But finally,
3) PLEEEEASE make this profession a playable one, it's very hard the support yourself when rarely no one wants Module droids or Crafting Station Droids. It's hard enough competing with CHs, it's just no one is interested in what droids can offer, we need an edge over other classes.
Just my 2 cents
--Lunkol