Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid 'Pulse': TH asked for us to put this together...lemme know what you think.
Enjoy!
/bow
need it, go ahead and use this one...)
Profession title: Master Droid Engineer
General Crafting XP Required: 10500
Note: From this point on, any of the fun or un-fun
things have been put in no particular order and are not to indicate any
sort of prioritization (yet) from the Droid Engineer community.
Un-fun thing #1:
Interdependence to MA too 'steep'
Resource quality matters more now (as does the Survey 'game', though
some find this an unfun thing too).
Novice Level (0/0/0/0) - Skill Pts = 6, Gen. Crafting XP = 28800:
Intermediate Level (1/1/1/1) - Skill Pts = 20, Droid Crafting XP = 192,000:
Intermediate Droid Construction - Skill Pts = 5, Droid Crafting XP = 48,000:
268,800:
XP = 67,200:
Master Droid Engineer - Skill Pts = 2, Apprenticeship XP = 620:
Un-fun thing #2:
color=#000000> Rework droid schematic / parts list in crafting station
tab
tab (during crafting) is getting entirely out of control and is way too disorganized. With JTL coming, if there are any
additions to that list, the problem will get worse still. It would be a VERY good idea to
reorganize this list so that it makes a lot more sense. If you'd like a link to a great thread on this topic, click
href=http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=82275 target=_blank>here.
Variety of possible products/configurations to offer.
The line pretty much says it all. This was, by quite a wide margin, the thing that
DEs said that they found the most "fun".
or not useful must have an objective reason)."
When you (TH) posted this, I wasn't quite sure what to put here. Our products are our 'abilities' really. So, I
decided to break the different droid use benefits into more basic categories, to summarize points of fun / un-fun of
each, where applicable.
- Combat
Armor: We need to have you remove the Armor rating from droids and leave
only Resists (unless you foresee DL20+ droids as needing the Armor rating). I think many DEs would be very happy
to have a larger amount of focus placed on how droid armor is applied (i.e. having some control over how to 'weigh' the
resists that are applied). This might behave like assigning resist 'points' from a common pool. In any case, droid
armor now is basically passable but it could be done in a much more "fun" way, I'm sure.
Un-fun thing #3: Combat-clusters / Deeds /
droids need to display combat stats just like a ranged or melee weapon.
I know you've said that you want us to figure all this out (as part of 'playing' a
DE). However, it is NOT fun. Weaponsmiths do not have to have deal with some strange, weighted value to
decypher for their clients, do they? We are only asking for the the combat abilities to presented droid users in the
same way that weapons are...
It's confusing a LOT of people (DEs and non-DEs alike) that this isn't the case. Just change it so that it
is...
Fun thing #3:
Better combat droid products.
The changes to droids in Publish 8 seems to have finally
gotten a lot of our combat concerns out of the way. Combat droids are now quite helpful indeed in combat. I don't
really hear much in the way of serious concerns or complaints (other than the fact that DEs now have to work to let
people know that combat droids ARE good now)...
- Profession utility
Fun thing #4: Profession utility modules (could always use
more of these!).
- Medical (Medic / Doc / CM): Our 'abilities' let a Med. prof. craft/exper. on Meds and heal
wounds without need for a camp or Med Center.
- Crafting professions:
- Mobile crafting stations / experimentation: Our abilities relating to crafting profs. mainly sits on
mobility.
- Survey 'services': Our ability here allows crafter/surveyors (or anyone) to more easily stay on top
of resources available on a given planet (but yes, people are still requesting some kind of stats be reported along with
the base list).
- Mobile crafting stations / experimentation: Our abilities relating to crafting profs. mainly sits on
- Scout: Harvest modules are cool...but people find translating the bonus number to an actual
'stat' confusing and problematic. It's not exactly "fun" to have to figure out if a Scout / Ranger will benefit from a
Harvest droid (and what kind of droid to make them that WILL benefit them). The Trap droids seem to do okay...but
now I understand that there are larger trap issues in general.
- Entertainer:
- Effects module: Performing an effect without using up Action HAM is okay..but I'm not sure it's a
fun enough thing for Ents. to really deem these as a needed expenditure. I might suggest upping some aspect of
what they "do" for Entertainers. They ARE fun / cool to watch though...
- Musician Playback module: I don't see these in use a ton but I know they get
used.
- Effects module: Performing an effect without using up Action HAM is okay..but I'm not sure it's a
- Bounty Hunter ('BH'): Seeker droid 'infinite use' bug is still in evidence. We need to get that
finished (since it was promised as a fix back with Publish 7).
- Smuggler: Detonation modules = fun. These were/are a pretty good addition. I know that they
are still waiting on some kind of droid slicing module and/or droid 'hacking' (i.e. give R2 a reason to need his data
interface 'arm').
- Merchant: These are still on the 'un-fun' side, currently. There simply isn't enough in these to
stop people from simply AFK spamming at whatever starport they choose. If we can find a compelling way to add to
these that will reduce this, it would VERY "fun". Right now, I'd call these 'almost fun'. Main issues are: Battery
requirements/timing too restrictive and the droid doesn't seem to 'persist' in the game world enough (by this, I mean,
the droids auto-store too easily).
- Medical (Medic / Doc / CM): Our 'abilities' let a Med. prof. craft/exper. on Meds and heal
- Customization / Decoration
- Chassis / Deed coloring: This part is something that I think a lot of DEs enjoy. There are still
some un-fun items, such as Protocols not having customization once deeded.
- Droids as 'decoration' in houses: This is still a big market for us. People like to have a
customized droid in their house. If these could be set to Patrol (indefinitely), it would be very, very fun (droids would
appear to be 'working' in your house).
- Chassis / Deed coloring: This part is something that I think a lot of DEs enjoy. There are still
- Miscellaneous
- Structure Maintenance: A great idea...just not quite working right yet. This needs to be fully and
totally fixed before it will be truly fun and useful. In time, we should considering adding the ability for it to report back
installed power level.
- Personality Chips: Another great idea...just not quite 'there' yet. These have a TON of possibility
that I think would add a ton to the game. I will ask the DEs to focus more specifically on ideas to make these better
(and make droids seem more 'alive', since they need to...and right now they do not.)
- Item Storage:
Un-fun thing #4: Storage
needs for DEs (and some other professions) are too 'hefty' (resources / parts and crates /
etc.)
- Relation to JTL / ships:
- ???? (This is a HUGE "X-factor" for me/us.)
color=#000000> Decay - or - A More Robust 'State of Repair vs. Functionality' System (errr...or
lack thereof, more precisely).
color=#000000> Explaining droids / droid use, etc. to most players. (i.e 'Can I get a 'manual' or
something with this'?).
color=#000000> Uhhh....they're droids, HELLO!??!?! What's more 'Star
Warsy fun' than that?!?
Summarized Fun / Un-Fun List & Top 5 Recommendations:
Fun:
- Resource quality matters more now (as does the Survey 'game'...though some find this an unfun
thing too).
- Variety of possible products/configurations to offer.
- Better combat droid products.
- Profession utility modules (could always use more of these!).
- Uhhh....they're droids, HELLO!??!?! What's more 'Star Warsy fun' than
that?!?
- Interdependence to MA too 'steep'.
- Rework droid schematic / parts list in crafting station "Droid" tab.
- Combat-clusters / Deeds / droids need to display combat stats just like a gun or melee weapon.
- Storage needs are too 'hefty' (resources / parts and crates / etc.)
- Decay - or - A More Robust 'State of Repair vs. Functionality' System (errr...lack thereof, more
precisely).
- Explaining droids / droid use, etc. to most players. (i.e 'Can I get a 'manual' or something with
this'?).
- Interdependence to MA too steep (EMMs and EGPs to Novice DE would help a lot).
- Rework droid schematic / parts list in crafting station "Droid" tab.
- More chassis-specific bonuses (a la Detonation modules in MSE droids)...or just more chassis
types in general.
Note: This could also be applied to how Item Storage modules 'stack'
in BLL Droids, partly addressing some of the storage 'un-funs' (#4)...as well as making them more desired (which,
right now, they really aren't).
- A More Robust Decay ('State of Repair vs. Functionality') System.
- Droid names (conversational droids + filter issues, i.e. 'droidy names').
- A 'Helper Droid' - style end-user description/manual of the functionality available on their droid.
- Easier droid naming system (i.e a "Set Name" radial item on the droid, instead of having to
"Program". /sigh).
- "DE's missing the boat on limited-use schematics, loot components, epic quest droid creation
(Mando armor and jetpack don't count... they're not droids)." - Admiral Snackbar
(since we can make part combat / part utility pets). Our 'pure' combat droids are now more effective and desired. The
role for DEs as it relates to higher-end combat can likely be considered to be effectively on hold until such time as we
get the Droid Commander list of guidelines from TH and/or the advent of that profession. Even so, we will always
basically be 'combat weaponsmiths' in relation to combat situations and such.
agents' instead of just a gun mounted on the chassis. For now, I'm going to assume that the GCW revamp might
have some kind of 'thing' for droids...but it's unclear what that might be (yet).
Note: I've put up a thread requesting ideas and will summarize the better ideas on
how DEs could relate to GCW changes soon.
Grouping Summary(?):
Note: I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. However, droids functioning in groups seems to
be pretty straightforward and I don't hear much (good/bad) from DEs on this. Perhaps some clarification of what
you're looking for here would help.
Yeah I like the BLL idea. Time to make those droids useful hehe.
Looks really good, pretty much covered everything.
My only gripe is that you didn't really go into Droid Decay, it was one little sentence. IMO Droid Decay seems to be our biggest issue, well after fixing current bugs. Droid sales were great when the recent modules first came out, but sales are dropping and will only drop more. People have zero reason to replace droids, I think this needs to be stressed more.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
The list pretty much sums up DE for me. I really think that it needs to be stressed (since TH isn't always totally familiar with droid systems) that the combat stats are already in the droid once it's tamed - it's not like we are asking for a new system that is comparable to weapon stats. We already have it - it's just not reflected on the deed.
Yea...I should probably remove "deed" as it relates to listing the combat stats. The basic idea here was to get across that we shouldn't be held to some weighted standard for our stats when other weapon-producing professions do not have to do the same.
I think you are missing what I said.
I just think your wording makes it seem like we are asking for something we do not already have. Like we are asking for them to implement some new system, when all we want is the current system better documented on the deed.
Like, TH is gonna look at that and think it's by design, not that droids already have these ratings and we just need them on the deed as well as the tamed droid.
As you can see, I still use tame/deed - "readied" just doesn't sound right. My advice isn't over that wording, but simply making it sound like we are asking for NEW stats to be applied to our droids comparable to Weapon stats; we already have them, we just want to see them.
I do believe there was a reason for this - because they knew they were bumping up combat droids again in Publish 8 and making the system scaled the way it is made it easier to make that transition.
Yea, maybe. But wouldn't we want to have/show the combat stats like a ranged/melee weapon once DC hits anyway?
Of course. Again, I think you are missing what I said. I am saying that they had a reason in the first place, but that reason is gone now. At this point DC isn't even a thought here - our current combat droids need them.
You've been a great champion of this particular point, AO...which is one of the reasons that I push so hard on it. I totally agree that it makes no sense forus to have to operate in such a strange system. Weaponsmith's don't have to deal with all this "Combat Rating" business...
Well, that's good.
However, now that they have "settled", the final stats need to display on the deeds, unquestionably. Even if they have to make it dynamic in case it does change again.
After Master Artisan parts, this is the top droid concern for me right now. Combat droids decay nicely as-is, and the one thing keeping the market from being all it can be is this.
Combat decay seems to be fine so far. I think many of us are more concerned about 'utility decay'. THAT is the system that we need to get in place, methinks.
Again, I didn't say it wasn't.
Yea, you may have noted that I suggest moving only the EMMs and EGPs to the Novice DE box. I don't think we're going to totally erase our dependence to MA. However, moving those two should be sufficient to end the MA dependence thing, I think.
I agree, and this has been my proposed idea from the start.
Control Units and MSS would still make us among the most dependent on another class, but it wouldn't make us far and above the worst as we are now.
AO
/bow
Respectfully,
/bow
Straker_Atrella wrote:
My only gripe is that you didn't really go into Droid Decay, it was one little sentence.
This wasn't supposed to be a huge diatribe of our issues. More of an overall, 1-2 page 'situation report'.
The Droid Decay thing is something we do need to focus on...but that wasn'tthe point of this document.
IMO Droid Decay seems to be our biggest issue, well after fixing current bugs.Droid sales were great when the recent modules first came out, but sales are dropping and will only drop more.
They will go back up when JTL hits. Till then, yea...the sales are likely to plateau. Any new droid decay system will likely take a backseat to the current plans they have moving forward (Jedi revamp, SL revamp, GCW revamp, etc.).
When it's time for the "Correspondent issues" time, we'll need to figure out if we want bugs focused on or some other item(s). More on that as we approach that time...
People have zero reason to replace droids, I think this needs to be stressed more.
Well...should they need to be "replaced"? I know I don't want to build my OWN droids over and over.
I'd far rather see a more robust and logical 'repair' system in place for droids.
Example:
System message (when you try to ______):
"Your droid ceases to function due to a burned out Manipulator Arm." (or some other part or something)
Result? Some DE (not necessarily the one that made it) would need to perform a Repair by perhaps dragging and dropping a new part of the type specified on to the droid.
Perhaps it would even have a chance to fail (and make things worse). /shrug
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
I'd far rather see a more robust and logical 'repair' system in place for droids.
Example:
System message (when you try to ______):
"Your droid ceases to function due to a burned out Manipulator Arm." (or some other part or something)
Result? Some DE (not necessarily the one that made it) would need to perform a Repair by perhaps dragging and dropping a new part of the type specified on to the droid.
Perhaps it would even have a chance to fail (and make things worse). /shrug
As much as I personally wouldn't enjoy that type of system, simply because I am an Industrial DE, it's really the only viable way to implement decay.
These are droids - and if you notice, somehow the main characters of C-3PO and R2-D2 lasted a good thirty years - people become attached to their droids and will not take a decay system that loses them their droid lightly.
You and I know that an R3 is an R3, and they could just buy a new one and name it the same - but people really feel ownership of things like this and it's going to be tough to implement a decay system that would totally destroy/disable forever a droid.
I know people that refuse to buy new droids simply due to that fact - they still have their trusty "CraftyMcGee" R5 from back in the day and nothing could make them delete it.
This is totally off the wall, but it would be very cool to be able to "retire"a droid into an object again for this very reason. This would be a great canidate for the "patrol" system TK talked about above. That's totally not a new topic, and it was talked about last year during the "State of DE" post by our former Correspondent Sintrosi - it's too bad that got deleted or we could refer to that. But then again - I bet that's the reason it is no longer there.
AO
I'll clarify this on the Corr. board post first.
AudioOrgana wrote:
I think you are missing what I said.
I just think your wording makes it seem like we are asking for something we do not already have. Like we are asking for them to implement some new system, when all we want is the current system better documented on the deed.
You and I both understand what's being asked for here...I think most DEs do.
I'll try to rephrase this to give a more clear picture of our position.
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
/bow
Straker_Atrella wrote:
My only gripe is that you didn't really go into Droid Decay, it was one little sentence.
This wasn't supposed to be a huge diatribe of our issues. More of an overall, 1-2 page 'situation report'.
The Droid Decay thing is something we do need to focus on...but that wasn'tthe point of this document.
IMO Droid Decay seems to be our biggest issue, well after fixing current bugs.Droid sales were great when the recent modules first came out, but sales are dropping and will only drop more.
They will go back up when JTL hits. Till then, yea...the sales are likely to plateau. Any new droid decay system will likely take a backseat to the current plans they have moving forward (Jedi revamp, SL revamp, GCW revamp, etc.).
When it's time for the "Correspondent issues" time, we'll need to figure out if we want bugs focused on or some other item(s). More on that as we approach that time...
People have zero reason to replace droids, I think this needs to be stressed more.
Well...should they need to be "replaced"? I know I don't want to build my OWN droids over and over.
I'd far rather see a more robust and logical 'repair' system in place for droids.
Example:
System message (when you try to ______):
"Your droid ceases to function due to a burned out Manipulator Arm." (or some other part or something)
Result? Some DE (not necessarily the one that made it) would need to perform a Repair by perhaps dragging and dropping a new part of the type specified on to the droid.
Perhaps it would even have a chance to fail (and make things worse). /shrug
Respectfully,
I agree that odds are pretty good that Droid decay wont be at the top of their list with JTL, CVR, and GCW on their plates. However, if we make noise now, it is possible, that we could get a feasible fix built into those Publishes, here is what I mean.
Take JTL for example, new modules/droids will be GREAT for us. However, the last thing that we really want is people to buy 1 droid with the new Modules, then never need to buy another. They have already said that ships will get torn up, and parts will need to be replaced. If Armor, Shields, Weapons, whatever need to be fixed possibly giving other crafting professions business, why shouldn't DE's get some repeat business as well?
For example, what if on a rare occassion your Astromech took a direct hit and was melted into a pile of sludge. I'm not saying all the time, just once in a while.
Don't get me wrong, your post is great, you covered everything. I just feel that if we (you,) make enough noise now, even though our current Droids may not really decay, the odds of us at least getting some type ofDroid Decay in JTL are better. Now is the time, while they are still working on JTL.
/bow
Straker
Actually...now may not be the time. The feature set may well be 'locked' on JTL. So, I'm not sure how exactly how easy it would be to get them to add/change the decay system for droids.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Now is the time, while they are still working on JTL.
Post-JTL? Yea...maybe.
At this point, I don't know where a "Droid Decay Revamp" might lie in the schedule...but I'll try to find out.
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Actually...now may not be the time. The feature set may well be 'locked' on JTL. So, I'm not sure how exactly how easy it would be to get them to add/change the decay system for droids.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Now is the time, while they are still working on JTL.
Post-JTL? Yea...maybe.
At this point, I don't know where a "Droid Decay Revamp" might lie in the schedule...but I'll try to find out.
/bow
Respectfully,
I think you missed what I am saying. Right now with JTL, I am sure they are working on things like how often your engines, weapons, or whatever may be hit on your ship. Working on details like what will be needed and how much that may cost. I'm sure issues like that are still being worked on. I'm not suggesting that actual "droid decay," be added into JTL really, What I am suggesting is that while they are figuring everything else out, possible there could be a way for Astromechs or other space droids to be damaged as well.
So while Droid Decay may not actually be in JTL, we may get some sort of repaet market on Astromechs.
/bow
Straker
Straker_Atrella wrote:
So while Droid Decay may not actually be in JTL, we may get some sort of repaet market on Astromechs.
I didn't miss it...I was right there with you.
Since I've not heard any details on JTL, I just don't know how this will go. I suspect that droids might take some amount of damage...but that's unclear.
I'd say that it's VERY unlikely that droids will be out-and-out "destroyed" in ships. What if you had some uber armor in an Item Storage Astromech and it got destroyed?
Some would say..."Too bad, don't store that stuff there."
I think the Devs would say... "People hate few things more than losing items, so we really don't want to do that."
This is tantamount to perma-death, which has already been basically repealed and taken off the table (from most DEs that I know)...
I know what you mean and I'll find out how droid decay/damage relates to ship use ASAP, I promise.
/bow
Respectfully,