Droid Engineer Archive

Fellow "sub-optimal" DEs and other readers,

I hereby announce and open the second DE Focus Thread (Chassis).

I'll try to keep things brief (those of you that know me are thinking, "Fat chance").

It was very hard to sit down and start thinking about the current and future state of chassis and what, if any, changes should occur. At many times, I'm thinking we simply have too many. There are too many options, too many possibilities and, to be honest, too many possible configurations to test properly (no offense, SWG
QA Team...oh wait, that's us.)

Droid clients: Don't take this the wrong way but many of you are 'unconsciously unaware'...you just don't know what you don'tknow. Heck, many DEs don't know fully what's 'up' with droidseither. Welcome to our world. The future changes to DEs haveto ensure that the new systems and layout are easy to swallowandutilize for not only the builders but the clients as well.

Last night, as I worked up a healthy amount of this, I decided that I always find it good to reshuffle information that I know well to look at it in a fresh way. This new way of looking at the state of droid chassis seemed to help in some aspects, especially with regard to module/feature inclusion into chassis X or droid Y. The information in the stages below (in Part 2)is purposefullyincomplete and unfinished. I intend for you all to assist. You didn't think I was gonna single-handedly lay out our fix, did ya?!?

In addition, considering our chassis status this way made me think a lot out the type of user that would buy/use a certain level droid and what kind of revenue options are available to DEs at different levels. Please keep in mind that I based this new 'vision' on the information laid out in my DE Focus Thread 1 (Skills). Where/when each chassis becomes possible to a DE (via the BP tree), is 'tied' to the information below in terms of its overall connection.

DE Focus Threads (Skill tree):

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=37284

Addendum: I do believe that I'd need to swap the GSM part at Production 4 for the Adv. Droid Frame at Production 3. This will help.

In this reshuffling, I tried to break down the client experience of droids into 3 basic categories or in-game 'stages':

• Initial 'push' to the first 1/3 of a profession (Base)


• Power through the second 2/3 of a profession (Intermediate)


• 'See the barn door' race to finish (Advanced)

I find that something very close to this was the case for my Artisan skills, my DE skills and (so far) my TKA skills. In any case, it lets us reconsider how/where droids can be valued by clients and what kind of value we need to provide at given price points.

I asked myself..."How will DEs make money on chassis use at each of these 3 stages instead of needing to feel like it's a grind?"

I decided that an unwritten, multi-stage DE profession-and-client 'process' is needed to try and ensure repeat business over time and provide a market to all 3 stages of DE (Base, Intermediate and Advanced). We have to at least assume, however, that others will enter the industry over time). Please keep in mind that this 3 stage process won't be officially "in" the game, per se, but that it makes a lot of sense when you consider how to build a "profession" based on use of droids as a service and their value to the players.

Additional items to consider that came to mind:

• DE Clients often want to pick features and get their favorite 'body' style.This should be true up to a point. On certain functions (to operate attheir desired level), their hand should be a bit 'forced'.
  


• They need to give us features ("I need it to heal, craft and do moderatecombat", etc.) and we can provide 2-3 possibilities for them. In addition,possibilities need to be partly dependent upon the market value of the'service' the droid provides, which is a subjective issue and not easily addressed.
  


• Perceived market value for functionality/services to the individual player isparamount to the future of DEs. Example: target market value - Avg. pricelist of all servers over time. Add +20-30% to this average to figure wherewe should be down the line, post changes.

A note on GSMs and Modules: I include this in only a cursory way now, since there will be separate DE Focus Threads to look at these items. For now, assume any/all GSM or Module inclusion to be fully up for debate and my options below available for alteration. The examples given below are merely that...examples, and the basis for discussion.

One thing that I do personally like when considering chassis...

A Logical Use system (or "How to keep L6 Med. Modules and crafting stations out of lower level droids that
shouldn't have them):

• Any such design must retain a level of flexibility and 'openness' for the crafters that want to provide as many configurations as allowed, per the clients request.
  


• However, some level of functionality should br based on logical use of chassis.
  
  Cases: (Surgical + Med)
  (MSE + 'animated secure trade', delivery service)
  (Seeker + 'spy bot')
  (R-series, crafting, repair, slicing, item/data)
  (protocol + language/city, crafting and item/data)

I don't think it's terribly disheartening to users to make droids fit what we see in the Star Wars movies and universe. You don't see an MSE doing what and R2 can do and, to some degree, vice versa. Droid chassis really should be able to provide some logical 'value' and retain flexible design and customization of services.

One possible avenue for this would be that installation of a 'non-logical' module into a particular chassis (crafting station in MSE) would be allowed, but would yield worse results/quality/whatever.

To further assist in your consideration of my thoughts on chassis, I've broken down the basic usefulness and/or value into categories for ease of educating users/clients.

• Combat:


• Medical & Service:


• BH (special case):

Enjoy!

End Part 1 - See below for Part 2.


/bow

Respectfully,

DE Focus Thread - Part 2.

Multi-stage chassis breakdown (by price, value/service and chassis)

Base level combat, medical and 'service' chassis:

Target approx. price points on most models (assuming fully loaded): approx. 1k - 10k

Combat:

Note: No WS parts are yet required. Don't worry, WS's...I'll get to you,
soon enough

• (N) DZ70 Droid (1 Mod slot, lower-level ranged attack,L1-L3 armor accepted)


• (N) MSE Droid (base level bomb attack, short-range 32m,L1-L3 armor accepted)


• (BP-1) Treadwell Droid (1 Mod slot, lower-level melee attack,L1-L3 armor accepted)


• (BP-1) MSE Droid, Adv. Model (1 Module slot (non-GSM),higher level bombs with better long-range
  'tracking' (96-128m?) and L1-L6 armoraccepted)

Medical & Service:

• (N) MSE Droid (1 Module slot (non-GSM),1 L1-L3 armor accepted)


• (BP-1) MSE Droid, Adv. Model (1 Module slot (non-GSM),L1-L6 armor accepted)


• (BP-1) Power Droid (No module slots, powers itself and 3additional droids within
  some given distance...64m?128m? No batteries are EVER required for thisfunctionality)


• (BP-1) R5 Droid (1 L1-L3 Module of any type)


• (BP-2) R4 Droid (1 L1-L3 Module of any type)

BH Droid:

• (N) Seeker Droid (BHs and Radar 'SpyBots')

---

Intermediate level combat, medical and 'service' chassis:

Target approx. price points on most models (assuming fully loaded): approx. 10k - 30k

Combat:

Note: all combat droids in this section should require use ofWS-craftable part(s)

• (BP-2) DZ70 Droid, ADV Model (L1-L4) armor accepted


• (BP-2) WED Treadwell, ADV Model (L1-L4 armor accepted)


• (BP-3) Probot (L1-L4 armor accepted)

New Chassis:

• (BP-3) Battle Droid (a.k.a. Trade Federation ("Roger, Roger")Battle Droid)


• (M, not DE-only) Droideka

Medical & Service:

Note: no optional medical additions (stims) can be added to these. They work as normal

• (BP-2) R5 Droid, ADV Model


• (BP-3) R4 Droid, ADV Model


• (BP-3) R2 Droid


• (BP-3) Surgical Droid


• (BP-3) LE Repair Droid


• (BP-3) R2 Droid


• (BP-4) Protocol Droid


• (BP-4) BLL Droid

BH:

• (BP-2) Arakyd Probe Droid

---

Advanced level combat, medical and 'service' chassis:

Target approx. price points on most models (assuming fully loaded): approx. 30k - 75k

Combat:

Note: all combat droids in this section should require use of WS-craftable parts

• (BP-4) Probot, ADV (L1-L6 armor accepted)


• (M) Advanced Battle Droid a.k.a. Trade Federation Battle("Roger, Roger") Droid
  (L1-L6 armor accepted)


• (MDE-only) Advanced Droideka (L1-L6 armor accepted)

Medical & Service:

Note: all medical droids should accept optional addition of Doctor/Medicor CM crafted stims (this addresses the 'can't it heal my by itself?' issue and also gives the medical profession a commodity sale).

• (BP-3) Power Droid, ADV Model (2 module slots, powers itselfand 3 additional droids within
  some given distance...64m?128m? No batteries are EVER required for this functionality)


• (BP-4) R2 Droid, ADV


• (BP-4) R3 Droid


• (BP-4) LE Repair ADV


• (M) R3 Droid, Advanced Model


• (M) Surgical 21-B ADV


• (M) Protocol Droid, Advanced Model


• (M) Bin. Load Lifter Droid, Adv.

/bow

Respectfully,

I forgot to include a note...


For a very good basis for talking specifics on Trade Federation ("Roger, Roger") Battle Droids and Droideka chassis (and features), check out:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=38162


Gotta give out da mad respect for Drashk.


/bow

/bow


Respectfully,

TK, I appreciate the work you're doing. It can only serve to help us all.

I do have a qualm about including Treadwells in the 'combat' category... They are low-end service droids from all that I can tell, the kind of utility machine that runs around one's moisture farm for a few decades before falling apart. ;-)

They just feel to me more like the kind of droid that would be useful for, say, lowering the maintenance requirements of harvesters or something, and if armored, it should really be for what the description in the schematic says: It should helps protect the droid against bumps and falls. Maintaining a harvester is rough work, you know, and over time the droid would tend to accumulate dings.

As a note: An entire rework of the droid schematics will also be needed with some of the changes that are being suggested. You can't put the GSC in Prod-4 if a normal R2 (BP-3 or Prod-3?) requires it for construction. The components are not backward dependant and you will have droids that you cannot build because you do not yet have the required skill to produce their parts.

And I understand your enthusiasm regarding an MDE combat droid but.....that might cloud thepurpose of revamping the DE profession with peoples personal feelings on such an issue. I for one do not condone any special combat advantages for DE since no other professions afford such a perk, and I fear this might also open up the whole general debate on DE combat droids when what you really wish to focus on is presenting changes to the profession as a whole.

I realize that you are trying to take the currently available modules and work them into a logical plan when what we need is more modules to make all the unique chassis functional in their own right without trying to turn them into something they are not - many chassis such as MSE, Protocol or BLL are NOT crafting stations but we don't have anything else for them to do at the moment so we are forced to find something for them to do. If they had some type of specific, useful, and unique inherant functionality this would not be such a problem.

That said, most droids should try to fulfill a specific need not a general need. Repair Droids should repair, Power Droids should power, Load Lifters should load or lift, Protocol Droids should protocol, and Surgical droids should surg.

The fact that the development team could only design, or implement 3 or 4 distinct functional modules for dorids to use has muddied the purpose of a specialized droid and forced them to open all modules for all droids. I believe their original plan was to provide a more robust system for constructing droids, but constraints forced them to compromise so that they could include the profession in the original release. What do you think the game would be like with NO droids?

I do not realistically see how we should be able to put a repair module into a Surgical Droid, or a medical module into a Repair Droid, or a crafting station into a Protocol Droid. There are inherant functions built in to specific droid chassis (that don't work but.....) that should remain specific to that particular chassis and not be permitted in every chassis that exists.

I would prefer to see four categories of basic utility with very few crossovers:
- Combat
- Medical
- Service
- BH

It does not make sense that we can place modules that are obviously unrelated into any chassis we choose. Placing a medical module and a structure crafting station into a Surgical Droid (or any chassis) is 'highly illogical', yet placing a medical module and a chem crafting station into the same chassis would make sense to most people.

Astro mechs, and I'm sorry for lack of any other alternative, would make great crafting stations. And it's also arguable that they would make decent repair and medical droids. AS WELL AS perform many other useful functions that are just not available to us in the game.

I think it would be most useful to compile a list of additional functions, and coresponding modules, that are needed for both specific and general professions in the game first, and then work these into the Droid Chassis plan before it was presented to the general public. Because right now, all we're doing is trying to rearrange the same 3 or 4 play blocks we already have in a more interesting manner.

The key benefit would be to invent new uses for droids that our customers would find beneficial and we would find saleable (sp).

Then we could finally produce a plan that provided specialized functionality to specific customers. And this is the major drawback to any plan we could hope to put together right now - it's just the same old stuff after being thrown into a blender.

To facilitate such a goal, I believe some very specific rules need to be lain down:

Combat droids fight. They don't kick your butt, then heal your wounds, then fix dinner for you. It would be nice if they did, but they are created for only one purpose - to deal damage and stay in one piece till the next battle. This means that the only modules that should be permitted for these chassis are combat and defense.

By the same token other specific chassis should also be restricted. Surgical Droids heal, Repair Droids repair, and Power Droid provide power. There are some ancillary functions that they could provide in related fields, but not many. For this reason I think that not only the types of modules permitted in these specific chassis should be restricted, but also the function of additional modules should be taken into account - medical + chem, repair + customization!, power + ???.

The more general chassis would fill the bulk of non-specific functionality. R units could be the jack of all trades that can do a little of everything, but not be the master of anything. Crafting without penalty, healing and repair to a lesser degree than the chassis specifically designed to fulfill these functions.

I realize that this does leave some chassis without much functionality, or any functionality - MSE, Protocol, BLL. But that's only because they have no functionality currently available.

Which is why I suggest focusing on additional modules first, and then revisiting chassis armed with a new purpose and the ammo to back up real change in the profession.

Does this make sense? Would this provide us with specialized funtionality and differentiate the different droid chassis so they have a genuine purpose in life?

I forgot to mention that I also have qualms about placing combat modules into non-combat chassis. This will do nothing to help promote specialized functionality or differentiate any droid chassis. It will only perpetrate the already rampant philosophy that "anything can go anywhere".

As I stated, combat droids fight. By exclusion that means non-combat droids do not.

---

Droid_Engineer_Rho wrote:

TK, I appreciate the work you're doing. It can only serve to help us all.


Thanks. I just hope that the community follows along and actually includes the details needed to build our own long-term plan. Why let the Devs steer our future when we can tell them how to do it better?


I do have a qualm about including Treadwells in the 'combat' category... They are low-end service droids from all that I can tell, the kind of utility machine that runs around one's moisture farm for a few decades before falling apart. ;-)


I only include Treadwells as combats since they are that way now. I agree that these (by use of my Logical system) really shouldn't be pure combat droids. I've always seen these as the cheap, all-purpose droid that many lower level characters want. I think that they may well have a better future when vehicles come into consideration.


They just feel to me more like the kind of droid that would be useful for, say, lowering the maintenance requirements of harvesters or something, and if armored, it should really be for what the description in the schematic says: It should helps protect the droid against bumps and falls. Maintaining a harvester is rough work, you know, and over time the droid would tend to accumulate dings.


The harvester service droid has been brought up in many forms, so far. Up to this point, it's been stated by the team that there are technical limitations associated with them.You make good points though. I think that better detailing the 'logical use' rules or focusing on chassis-specific functionality would help a ton.

---

/bow

Respectfully,

---

progman63 wrote:

As a note: An entire rework of the droid schematics will also be needed with some of the changes that are being suggested. You can't put the GSC in Prod-4 if a normal R2 (BP-3 or Prod-3?) requires it for construction. The components are not backward dependant and you will have droids that you cannot build because you do not yet have the required skill to produce their parts.


Keeping the GSM high up will help to ensure that the Adv. level users still have a market and cool droids.

And, to the best of my knowledge, GSMs are not a requirement for any droid into which they can be added. They are an option. Now, you're not likely to make an empty R2, but you might just add individual featres via non-GSM modules.

They should not be a requirement for any chassis but a near-Master level ability.

And I understand your enthusiasm regarding an MDE combat droid but.....that might cloud thepurpose of revamping the DE profession with peoples personal feelings on such an issue. I for one do not condone any special combat advantages for DE since no other professions afford such a perk,...


Say...did you hear that there were CH's making 15mil credits in the first 24 hours of mounts?

Special perks? Huh?

It's not a special perk. It's the way our profession should have been designed at the outset. Does it make sense to you that a Master Droid Engineer would have the ability to make/use, alter and command the best droids in the galaxy? Should they not have the best 'abilities' to operate them, given their specific profession experience?

Do not Master CH's get to make more/better pets than lower level CHs and non-CHs?

Let's not start this argument...it only leads to bad places. Having an MDE-only combat droid really hurts no one.


and I fear this might also open up the whole general debate on DE combat droids when what you really wish to focus on is presenting changes to the profession as a whole.


We need to have a big, healthy (constructive) debate on DE combat droids, as far as I can tell. With the recent poll that showed forum readers were pretty close to 50/50 on this issue, we must find a compromise now....seriously.

Thankfully, this is one of my future Focus Threads, so people should start getting their copy/paste material ready now.

I realize that you are trying to take the currently available modules and work them into a logical plan when what we need is more modules to make all the unique chassis functional in their own right without trying to turn them into something they are not - many chassis such as MSE, Protocol or BLL are NOT crafting stations but we don't have anything else for them to do at the moment so we are forced to find something for them to do. If they had some type of specific, useful, and unique inherant functionality this would not be such a problem.


I hope you read my section on the Logical use system. I basically stated the same thing you did right there. I agree that finding uses for chassis goes hand-in-hand in this discussion. That's why I stated that the information was left unfinished. BLLs should be large walking container droids? Yea..I'm all for that. Protocols that can have Entertainer XP modules in them for Mind wounds (and maybe even BF)? Maybe.

Talking about value and services to the user is a big deal and chassis and module features and capabilities go hand-in-hand. So...bring your ideas now.

That said, most droids should try to fulfill a specific need not a general need. Repair Droids should repair, Power Droids should power, Load Lifters should load or lift, Protocol Droids should protocol, and Surgical droids should surg.


And what about Treadwells? R-series? The more generic chassis droids? What's their lot in life (other than suffering)?

The fact that the development team could only design, or implement 3 or 4 distinct functional modules for dorids to use has muddied the purpose of a specialized droid and forced them to open all modules for all droids.


I'll definitely second that. I was a huge mistake not to properly balanced chassis options with the services that can be installed within them. Right now is the time to try to lay that out (along with our additions for the new module features).


I believe their original plan was to provide a more robust system for constructing droids, but constraints forced them to compromise so that they could include the profession in the original release. What do you think the game would be like with NO droids?


We kind of have that now.

But seriously, they couldn't have just had "no droids". Even in Beta, droids were NPC eye candy at the very least. The real problem has always been how to give all players a lot of droid options while still providing the functionality they want.

I think what really should be coming is a function "nerf", whereby we get closer to the situation that a chassis is tied to the function it provides. This system needs to provide for design flexibility though as many DEs I've seen hate the idea of rigid controls on their options. I am sure that some things will happen that none of us like.

I do not realistically see how we should be able to put a repair module into a Surgical Droid, or a medical module into a Repair Droid, or a crafting station into a Protocol Droid.


This is all about being able to give the DE client what they want. Right now, it's a totally open system. In the future, I do believe that these options should be lowers. Whether newbie droid users are aware of it or not, it would probably be easier for everyone. How many times have you had to explain all the chassis/module options to a buyer with questions? I have some that get so confused with the options to fit their needs, they just give up.

That's sad.


There are inherant functions built in to specific droid chassis (that don't work but.....) that should remain specific to that particular chassis and not be permitted in every chassis that exists.

I would prefer to see four categories of basic utility with very few crossovers: - Combat - Medical - Service - BH


Originally, I had a 4 section layout such that this. I found that it got overloaded by "service" chassis and had only two Medical (Regular and Adv. Surgical). If we took a rigid stance on chassis being forced to functionality, we'd get 2 Med droid options? I think there has to be certain restrictions and certain options that will leave choice option to the buyer. It's working out what's logical and provides freedom at the same time that we are upon.

It does not make sense that we can place modules that are obviously unrelated into any chassis we choose. Placing a medical module and a structure crafting station into a Surgical Droid (or any chassis) is 'highly illogical', yet placing a medical module and a chem crafting station into the same chassis would make sense to most people.


I think it makes sense to try to have each chassis have it's intended function and possibly some other design customization. LE Repair droid that Repairs and has item storage. I can see that...no problem. The giant issue here is how to best determine a full list of possible uses/designs and assign them to specific chassis for availability. I'll kind of be doing this in future Focus Threads and so my 'stages' above will change (as they are intended to...).

Astro mechs, and I'm sorry for lack of any other alternative, would make great crafting stations. And it's also arguable that they would make decent repair and medical droids. AS WELL AS perform many other useful functions that are just not available to us in the game.

Having that idea list is nice...and I've seen a TON of module ideas. However, the Devs have to tell us what is or is not possible to code in a short period of time if we are ever to have this discussion for real. There's no two ways around that.

I think it would be most useful to compile a list of additional functions, and coresponding modules, that are needed for both specific and general professions in the game first, and then work these into the Droid Chassis plan before it was presented to the general public. Because right now, all we're doing is trying to rearrange the same 3 or 4 play blocks we already have in a more interesting manner.


Those threads are coming soon...so get your copy/paste material ready, everyone. I agree that compiling the best ideas for each type of droid 'feature' is paramount to our discussions. What I provide above is a very loose (and incomplete) outline, meant to be completed with the best of all given ideas.

And...yes, all I was doing was rearranging. I do swear that thinking of our profession in this manner helped me to focus on what might better lead us forward. Here's an example: I think that there would need to be a Base level Entertainer module and an Adv. one. These would provide mind heals (wounds) and BF respectfully. I know the Devs are all for forcing cantina occupancy but I think it's been shown not to work (all that appear seem to be AFKs, for the most part). Building a solution that enables them not to need to AFK might well help solve two professions at once...if the Dev team will only try to look at it that way.

The key benefit would be to invent new uses for droids that our customers would find beneficial and we would find saleable (sp).


I fully agree. These have to tie in correctly (balance) for any skill tree or chassis (deed) changes.

And...on a sidenote about droid deeds: Why do I have to make a "deed" at all? Am I not actually building a droid here? Perhaps the whole concept of droid chassis need to be tossed out, along with deeds and just let me build.

/gasp

...a DROID!

Then we could finally produce a plan that provided specialized functionality to specific customers. And this is the major drawback to any plan we could hope to put together right now - it's just the same old stuff after being thrown into a blender.

I do agree that I didn't really 'do' anything with my post. I simply tried to give us a platform to start the discussion of droid functionality (logical or otherwise) as it relates to chassis use.

If it gave you ideas...got them down and get them up here. I do go back and look at this as I move forward to the next thread.

To facilitate such a goal, I believe some very specific rules need to be lain down:

Combat droids fight. They don't kick your butt, then heal your wounds, then fix dinner for you. It would be nice if they did, but they are created for only one purpose - to deal damage and stay in one piece till the next battle. This means that the only modules that should be permitted for these chassis are combat and defense.


On reason why I'd think the Devs would try to get to this is that it promotes grouping. That, however, may be its downfall too (anti-soloist). Puzzling, this is...

By the same token other specific chassis should also be restricted. Surgical Droids heal, Repair Droids repair, and Power Droid provide power. There are some ancillary functions that they could provide in related fields, but not many. For this reason I think that not only the types of modules permitted in these specific chassis should be restricted, but also the function of additional modules should be taken into account - medical + chem, repair + customization!, power + ???.

The more general chassis would fill the bulk of non-specific functionality. R units could be the jack of all trades that can do a little of everything, but not be the master of anything. Crafting without penalty, healing and repair to a lesser degree than the chassis specifically designed to fulfill these functions.

I realize that this does leave some chassis without much functionality, or any functionality - MSE, Protocol, BLL. But that's only because they have no functionality currently available.


True. We need to give them a reason to be and balance them against the other chassis options.

So...how would you change my post? What would you add or alter?

Which is why I suggest focusing on additional modules first, and then revisiting chassis armed with a new purpose and the ammo to back up real change in the profession.

When I started thinking about the DE Focus Threads, I knew that it would be hard to have a discussion of chassis and modules/features independently of one another. However, I think it makes sense to do it to help us figure out what to use where and which chassis should logically be used to accept what modules. It seems that my idea worked...:smileyvery-happy:

Does this make sense? Would this provide us with specialized funtionality and differentiate the different droid chassis so they have a genuine purpose in life?

Yes..it makes sense. So, post your ideas or alterations to what I've put down above.

And...check out Drashk's thread (linked above) which a lot of this kind of content. He's done a stellar job.

---

/bow

Respectfully,

As always, Dough has done a bang up job. However I cannot help but feel that any desire to see a reorg of the skill tree by SOE would be absolutely futile. In the past, we have seen them make minor changes and adjustments, and in Beta 3 they certainly did move things around a lot. Based on their recent past behavior and attitudes, I cannot imagine any kind of significant restructuring of the DE Skill Tree. Call me the naysayer, call me the doomsayer, whatever. Flame me if it will make you feel better--but there is little to no evidence that this significant kind of restructuring would be something that SOE would be likely to do.

That being said, were SOE devs condusive to this level of change, I think that what Dough has documented here and in his prior thread are very much dead on with what we need. The organization of the Skill Tree, as it is presently, is both lopsided and mildly disorganized. There are several way to fix it. Add more things for us to craft is one option, moving things around into a more logical order with more logical branch names is another. Both would be nice, but either would be good.

I would add my own vote to the debate that there does need to be some inherent droid functionality and that droids with inherent functionality need some mutexs (mutual exclusions, for those readers who are not programmers or database people) where droids that have A cannot have B. The combat/non-combat split is good, and I think there are others. It doesn't have to be a column A column B thing, mind you. I see the whole "If the droid can A it cannot have B" discussion being one of Rock Paper Scissors. For example: I can see a combat droid having medical modules (passive allow-healing-here module types, not active heal-the-player module types), and I could see a medical droid (active heal-the-player types) having crafting station modules, but I cannot see a crafting droid having combat modules. Stuff like that there.

My 2 credits.

Good post, TheRealTK421. I like the way you put the issue forward and left it wide open for discussion and additional content , so here are my thoughts:

I actually see 5 categories. I had done some researching of droids in the databank on the Star Wars website. It didn't seem to be a complete listing of all the types of droids, but a good start. Listing different models as well as what type of droid they are, I could glean out my 5 categories that would function well in SWG. (There really could be more types, but I could not see any true acclamation in the game for them). I list the functionality types here with our current chassis types and have taken the liberty of adding a few new ones that could prove to be benificial.

(I would also like to note my thought of functionality vs. modules. I still think any droid should accept virtually any module, but that module would function at a reduced/penalty rate if not placed in the equivalent chassis function-type. There may be some exceptions to this rule, such as combat modules or crafting stations, but I am not planning to attack that issue here in this post.)

Service Type: These include the R-Series, or Astromech droids, the Protocol, and the Binary Load Lifter. New types would include the Asp droid, JN-66, and WA-7.

• R-series: the astromechs, being used primary as space vehicle maintenance droids, could also fall under another category (the Repair Type), however, they have already been accomodating the crafting professions and it seems that this is the best place to keep them. I am sure when the space expansion is released and space vehicles are introduced, the R-series would be a valuable addition to any space-farer.


• Protocol Droids: The issue with our current protocol versus what the are meant for in the SW Universe is the fact that we have no use for a translator. Unless SOE drastically changes the way languages were handled, or they introduce NPCs using non-playable languages, our protocols will never fulfill that function. However, protocols were used by politicians, and with the addition of the new profession, some use may be found to aid them in their political endeavor. Any ideas?


• Binary Load Lifter: It has been popular concensus that this droid should be used to carry items, in particular large items, or at least in large quantities.


• Asp Droids: A new chassis for SWG, this type was used to perform labor of varying tasks. Advanced versions were used as a combat trainer (noted use by Darth Vader for lightsaber training) and would be perfect to accomodate the trainer modules mentioned elsewhere.


• JN-66: This was an analysis droid. I wanted to include it here because it seemed to have potential. It could be used to examine items, looted or crafted, to determine a wider spectrum of specs than what we currently have. Another thought on it would be to analyze foods for poisons. My argument here seems weak even to myself, so any suggestions for or against are appreciated.


• WA-7: This was the waitress droid in Dex's Diner. Chefs might enjoy having a waitress/waitor type, probably used similar as a vendor, especially when catering a party.

Medical Types: I separated medical from service because the are more specific. Our only current chassis that qualifies is, of course, the Surgical Droid. So I have added two new types, the FX-7 and the IT-O.

• Surgical Droid: I have no comment to add for this. It seems pretty self-explanatory, other than this would perhaps be the top-end model to provide a higher bonus to medical modules?


• FX-7: This was an assistant to live and droid doctors. This could be the lower end version with a lesser bonus to medical modules than the Surgical type.


• IT-O: The interrogation droid. The description of this droid was that it was "an amalgam of leading edge medical and assassin droid technology". It seemed like it would be the perfect companion for a Combat Medic, able to diagnose/analyze a target to determine it's weakness against the appropriate poison.

Repair Types: These include the LE Repair droid, the Power Droid, and the WED Treadwell. The MSE seems to fit this category as well, and new types could include the Pit Droid and the PK Droid.

• LE Repair droid: Like the surgical above, this would be the top-end model with the highest bonus to repair modules.


• Power Droid: Giving power to a droid can loosely be considered a repair, so I included it here.


• WED Treadwell: The lower-end model, providing a lesser bonus to repair modules than the LE.


• MSE: While the LE and WED should be used to repair other droids in addition to structures, the MSE should be limited to minor repairs of structures, but not droids.


• Pit Droid: Hopefully a necessity for repairing vehicles.


• PK Droid: This was a general worker droid used for menial labor and simple tasks. I can see this as being a structure-only repair type like the MSE, but with a slightly higher repair bonus, but less than the WED.

Scout Types: It has been mentioned to add modules to provide scouting/seeking capabilites, but I found a few droid types that were specific for this function.

• Seeker Droid: Obviously BH-only and I suggest no change for this or the Arakyd, the following types should probably follow the same method (consumable usage to retrieve information, etc.)


• Arakyd Probe Droid: (see Seeker above)


• Probot: The exception to what I stated above. As it is right now, the Probot is our combat droid. Putting it in-line with the continuity, reconnaissance should be an added feature. Shifting this droid to this category would mean leaving its HAM and damage the way it is now, provided we receive a viable combat droid to replace it (which I will get to below).


• Mark IV Sentry Droid: This could be used just like the seeker, but for other professions, possibly with options to locate something specific, i.e. resources, other players, etc.

Combat Types: Well, having moved the Probot to the Scout line leaves us with only the DZ70. So other than that one, what is listed here is all new types.

• DZ70: the HAM and damage has to be increased on this guy. It cannot remain destroyable by a durni if we are going to be making viable combat droids.


• Battle Droid: Enough has been said about this type.


• Super Battle Droid: The Advanced version of the Battle Droid as seen in Ep. II. Again, enough has been said.


• Droideka: (Do I really need to say that enough has been said?)


• IG Assassin: Ditto


• Other Suggestion: I list here other battle droid types I found interesting, but given the limits the Empire has on combat droids and the fact that these are most likely way overpowered, they are only here for prosperity: The Dwarf Spider Droid, the Homing Spider Droid, and the Hailfire Droid. These were all used in the Battle at Geonosis in Episode II. Feel free to look them up if you aren't sure which one is which and comment whether you would like to see them or agree that they would be too powerful.

The separation of types I have made are for logical functionality. Additional uses/functions can (and should) be added using various modules (see other posts). I forsee the functionality types adding bonuses (or applying penalties as the case may be) to the modules installed.

Anyways, there are my thoughts. I'll be waiting for the dissection

First off...

/bow2

Thanks for the for mentioning the thread, twice. This version seems to have hit a wall, maybe due to its jumbo size or timing. Anyhow....Rhostated it very well.. (We)appreciate the work you're doing. It can only serve to help us all.

I like the 3 level break down; howeverI'm not sure that I can agree withadding additional requiredcomponents to exisiting droids. I've read a number of posts that have brought up the subject of adding weapon modules in order to increase the damage that a droid can deal. I disagree with this since the ability to experiment on damage and HAM is already included in the current droid design, but isn't percieved since the HAM/damage caps are in place at this time. New, 'more powerful' combat droids should have weapon components, to act as a balancing mechanism as in the case of level 5 & 6 armor.

As for the stim usage by droids, I feel that if ths option is be added content, it should be limited to only Advanced Surgical Droids. Allowing a large selection of droids the ability to use stims could hurt new up and coming Medics. I disagree with the concept of giving droids stim usage; however by limiting it to only the Advanced Surgical Droid, a balancing mechanism is created.

Droid_Engineer_Rhoalready addressed the same qualm that I have about the Treadwell. I think thatthe WEDshould be associated with vehicle, droid, and starship repair. I'll be adding a melee combat only droid in the next version of 'Having a problem with your droid?' 'No. No problem...Why?' in order to full the melee droid role.

In the last two versions of the above mentioned thread, I removed the Advanced Droideka from the MDE only line because of the major friction that was causing. The ability for a MDE to call upon two combat droids where others can call upon only one is a good compromise. I recently made a suggestion on another thread for a Omidroid, which would fill the role of a DE-only droid that could also be a combat droid.I'll be listing this droid in the next version of 'Having a problem with your droid?' 'No. No problem...Why?'.

An idea that I have been working with is adding additional functions to a droid based upon modules that are included. As much as many would like to see them, adding unique functions to each droid could be more difficult and harmful to future droids than most have considered. I know that a lot of people wil disagree with me on this; however adding unique features to each droid would require a major change to much of the code and could lead to even more issues arising. It would also take a lot long for the code to be written, compared to creating a module/droid feature. For instance, giving the Treadwell, with a Repair module installed, the ability to heal not only wound damage but normal (white bar) damage as well.

TheRealTK421, thanks for posting a different perspective on the possible future direction of the Droid Engineering Profession. It is great to see that others have not lostsight of a goal; offering options for the DEVs to take a look at and come up with future content.

Theres some 'corss-talk' from my post in your previous thread so forgive me if I seem to be repeating myself.

While chassis should have restrictions on what modules they are and arent able to accept (so an MSE shouldnt have much in the way of item storage) high level DEs should be able to experiment on chassis to 'bend' the rules slightly (obvious at the risk of messing the whole job up). While I not suggesting a droid can be made to break the rules utterly, I believe some latteral movement should be possible (so to go back to our example an MSE could be made to hold a slightly higher level of item storage but still definately not a level 6)

I also believe that skilled DEs should be able to replace and retro-fit modules to existing droids. This can be looked upon as an 'upgrade' if you wish. Care needs to be taken so that we dont end up with a 'one droid fits all' situation where people just hot swap the modules to suit their current need.

This kind of 'jury rigging' and 'retro fitting' could cause increased droid decay as its 'downside' (moreso if the attempt was a failure). This brings me nicely on to....

We do need some kind of droid decay, and while its previous implimentation was utterly wrong I do believe that droid perma-death has a place in the game. Droids should have a general decay when used over time (droids should not decay while stored) and only a DE should be able to repair that decay (at the cost of a reduced overall condition) at 0 the droid is destroyed (and perhaps some kind of salvage function added for DE's), I am also personally of the opinion that droids should be destroyed on a death blow (NOT and incap)

While the vitality system is acceptable for droids I suppose the current pet vitality pack is not, again this should be a DE-only constructed item. Obviously combat damage should cause increased decay (even should the droid not be incapped/deathblowed) - having said all that a droid decay system could effectively replace the vitality system altogether.

Once could go further and have the individual system decay (as opposed to or in addition to the chassis) which would allow for the perpetual existance/immortality of droids (good example here is R2D2) yet a stimulated market for DEs. While a droid never truely 'dies' individual components reduced to 0 condition will prevent the droid from functioning until replaced. Suddenly the materials used for droid component construction have a bearing on the finished products. Shoddy components, while cheaper, wear out faster and subsequently need replacing more often.

A small, but important change I feel is the need to have a frame component for all the advanced droid modules (not just R4 onwards). This change would however be a foregone conclusion if the decay/replace system proposed above were implimented.

Hmm. This is a hot one.

One of my major concerns as a DE, is the enormous amount of RL time spent explaining droid modules and bugs. Assuming the bugs will be fixed by the time a major overhaul to DE is done, we still need an easier classification system (for chassis) that will steer our clients in the right dirrection. Ourprofession has the most time overhead for sales of all crafting classes.

To that end, the idea of chassis that have very specific functions is certainly the easiest. I believe a blanket statement/rule like: All specialized droids can have modules up to lvl 6 installed in them (related to their specialty. eg. Surgical can have lvl 6 med...). All droids could have lvl 1 modules installed. I'm not married to these rules, I just think we need something simple.

Allready, most new customers assume that only surgicals can heal, and only R series can have crafting stations... They think this because it's implied in the namesand/or the Star-Wars lore.

Let's not make up any difficult rules/limitations that only DEs will understand. Purchassing and programing droids is already enough of an ordeal for our customers.

Buni

Master DE, Master Artisan

Kauri