Droid Engineer Archive

1. We might not have shot it down instantly because we would have had the facts: that dc is going to happen.


2. We would have had enough of a rapport done and dusted in this, our time, that you would have even had the opportunity to get the new profession sorted instead of us wasting our entire 'time in the sun' on an unworkable proposal, ending up with 4 utility modules of dubious worth and some combat modules... of dubious worth.

Please don't ignore this post but reply to it - with the simple addition of a modicum of discourse the frustration levels on this board would be reduced considerably.

touche.

The problem is that the Devs don't have a clue what to do with the DE profession. They keep telling us what cannot be done, but never what CAN be done. They're just running in circles, trying to come up with something.

That's the point of this post - to find out what to start with, what we have to work with

I don't believe that the devs are incompetent - just that there's no discourse

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overbyte wrote:

You don't like our ideas as they are unworkable - okay you tell us what you're going to do and how you're going to do it and we'll give your our opinions on it.

Hmmm, I'm not too comfortable with someone who may not know as much about droids and the problems we have with themtelling me what I should do . The Dev's may understand the coding side of droids, but I'm not sure many of the Dev's play DE's. That being the case, I'm not sure any of them are even prepared to walk into the "lions den" here with a plan on how they think droids are going to be added. Heck, I get angry at myselfcoming here sometimes

Please don't ignore this post but reply to it - with the simple addition of a modicum of discourse the frustration levels on this board would be reduced considerably.

I could not agree more with that statement That being said, we need to give them something to discuss. If we "rage against the machine" I can't imagine we will get that many responses. We've already seen that in practice. Time to move on and discuss (again) what could be possible. We at least now have an idea of what they DON'T like

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Shian_Tavkin wrote:

I do not think there is any point whatsoever in spending huge amounts of time working up something for them to discuss.

I have no desire to spend a huge amount of time on anything except playing the game. However, if we can come up with ideas that may make sense or show some sign of life, maybe we can get a Dev to actually acknowledge that we are on the right path. I'm not gonna hold my breath, but it is better than sitting here waiting for something that may not ever happen.

Surely the only way is now for the developers to develop an idea and post it. Then and only then can we have any certainty that the basic foundations are 'acceptable'. The alternative is yet more weeks of wasted effort refing something that they will just shoot down.

Not to be a pain or anything, but do you really expect them to do this? I'm not familiar with all the different boards, but I can't for the life of me remember a single time when a Dev actually posted what they wanted a profession to do. The way this seems to work is that they watch the boards and insert themselves into conversations/posts that make sense or have merit. Perosnally, I think waiting for anything else to happen from their end is like waiting for rain in Antarctica...it may be a while

Is it really too much to ask for the developers to state some groundrules?

Agreed, groundrules would be nice. Maybe TK can give us some at least basic limits on what is/is not possible from the Dev's perspective, but again, I won't be holding my breath

This whole circular development method is fundementally flawed. Just look at utility droids - we come up with useful and immersive ideas for droid content, they shoot every idea down with various excuses, including the all time classic that droids are not to be allowed to augment a player skill.

So, if you want to engage in another futile attempt to second guess what they might or might not find acceptable, go ahead by all means. I for one will be doing no such thing unless and until we get some direction from the people who are paid to develop this game. As of now we have one info source saying think about a two or four tier profession, and on the other hand the latest comment from the Lead Developer stating he does not like the idea of a new profession ..etc etc

Hehe, by posting here, I think you are somewhat involved I don't want to be shooting in the dark either, so I'll keep hoping that someone will give us a hint or two more than what we have gotten to point us in the right direction. No guarantees here, that is for sure. If truth be told, I'm not sure I even expect them to answer. I do however expect TK to take proposals that seem strong enough and elevate them to the Dev's for their consideration. We now know that Hybrid is off the table. OK, whats our next move?

It worries me no end that there are a whole new crop of enthusiastic young DE's coming in here and posting all sorts of ideas, 99% of which are actually old ideas that were rejected long ago..I'm all for enthusiasm, but wasting time is another thing entirely. We need basic direction from the Devs.

Enthusiastic is not exactly how I would classify myself, and I don't see a whole lot of "cheerleader" types frequenting these boards by any stretch of the imagination However, we have two alternatives here....wait for nothing to happen or do something. I'm for doing something even if it has been said and done before and shot down before. If I can learn at least ONE small thing about what the Dev's can/ cannot or will/ will not do, I think we are all one step closer to figuring out what the heck they want and what might be possible for us to improve our profession. No miracles or mana from heaven expected here. Just carrying on what you all started.

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Micco30 wrote:

Enthusiastic is not exactly how I would classify myself, and I don't see a whole lot of "cheerleader" types frequenting these boards by any stretch of the imagination However, we have two alternatives here....wait for nothing to happen or do something. I'm for doing something even if it has been said and done before and shot down before. If I can learn at least ONE small thing about what the Dev's can/ cannot or will/ will not do, I think we are all one step closer to figuring out what the heck they want and what might be possible for us to improve our profession. No miracles or mana from heaven expected here. Just carrying on what you all started.

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This is the big problem. It shouldn't be up to the DE's to "figure out" what the Devs want to do. If they know a few possibilities, they should present them here, and let us debate them. Otherwise we're just shooting in the dark, hoping to hit a moving target.

It's up to THEM to tell us what can or cannot be done, not up to us to present godless numbers of ideas, only to have them all shot down.

Place blame on the Dev's shoulders here. Don't blame DE's for not guessing correctly what the Devs wanted.

I agree i was about to post something like this myself.

As ive stated elsewhere

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duncje wrote:

This is the big problem. It shouldn't be up to the DE's to "figure out" what the Devs want to do. If they know a few possibilities, they should present them here, and let us debate them. Otherwise we're just shooting in the dark, hoping to hit a moving target.

Hmmm, gonna have to agree to disagree here. You want THEM to tell us what we should have?? Sorry, I can't imagine that having the Dev's tell us about how to make our profession work, especially the ones who haven't even played the game as a DE, will be a "good thing" (TM). We have already seen what came out of that with the whole Droid Handler debacle. I would much rather run some things up the flagpole than be dictated to on what they want. I'm pretty sure what THEY want and what I want are two completely different things in many cases. We just have to find a commonality first.

It's up to THEM to tell us what can or cannot be done, not up to us to present godless numbers of ideas, only to have them all shot down.

I agree it is up to THEM (TM) about what can and cannot be done. I think we already have some guidance (minimal as it may be)on what the Dev's don't want (hybrid) and what they might want (2 or 4 tree profession centered around droid commander/handler and maybe use offaction pets). Isn't that more than what we had a month ago?

Place blame on the Dev's shoulders here. Don't blame DE's for not guessing correctly what the Devs wanted.

Well, I really can't see where I was placing "blame" in anything I have said so far on any DE's out there, especially since I ARE one But I have to say that I have first hand knowledge that playing the "blame game" only accomplishes one goal...everyone gets mad and stamps off. Is that what we want? I don't want that. They already don't want to come here and interact with us because we are a tough crowd, so will blaming them make them come out in full force? I would have to say no if I was in their shoes. What would be the point? They are on the losing end of the deal from the outset. It would be a no win situation for them to enter and there would be no constructive dialogue at all. And we would be RIGHT back where we are now. I'm just dealing with the letdown and moving on to try again. Not much else I can do about it.

Micco

It is admirable that you still have faith, and long may it continue.

Trouble is, everything you are saying was said before, months and months ago, and we trusted and we tried..and now we are where we are..and it is not pretty.

So, go on and be positive and believe in the holy grail if you like, more power to you. Some of us know better and are still treating our burns.

You will end up just like us one day, so don't say nobody ever warned you.

/Charmingly

Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 04-03-2004 07:08 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with Micco's points.

Shian, I may get flamed for this, but as adults, we can agree to disagree.

What does your posts of the last day or so accomplish? Are you going to respond to EVERY positive poster with such remarks? It certainly will not help further the DE profession.

Everyone has the right to say what they feel or want to say, so I'm not telling you not to say it. It's just, I see you with this same post (different words, but in effect, the same), and I don't even have to read it to know what it's going to say, anymore. You may perhaps feel the same after reading my positive posts; I do not know. But, I am not the board police, say what you will, I enjoy the community here, everyone able to post what they like (within Terms of Service or whatnot).

"Trouble is, everything you are saying was said before, months and months ago, and we trusted and we tried..and now we are where we are..and it is not pretty.

So, go on and be positive and believe in the holy grail if you like, more power to you. Some of us know better and are still treating our burns."

I feel like you continually post this to try and invalidate what most people with a positive outlook or opinion say. Just because it may have been said before, does not invalidate it. Just because DE is in a troublesome state, does not invalidate it. Just because people have trusted things would work out and so far they haven't, does not invalidate it. Us saying this positive stuff does not invalidate your feelings or opinions or experiences either. But I feel as if you are constantly trying to invalidate anyone else's feelings, opinions, or experiences if they are more positive than your own. Everyone's opinion, feeling, etc, has its own weight and validity, and shouldn't just be swept under the rug because someone feels anything positively said is full of "spin", has been said before, etc.

I hope I am not offending, but I felt the need to say this. And I do appreciate where you are coming from, and I have, believe it or not, found several insightful things in some of your posts, as I have been lurking the last two months or so. Whether I find your posts helpful or not, they are just as valid as mine or anyone's, so please know I'm not trying to tell you what to say. I'm just expressiong my opinion, respectfully, if strongly.

Iree

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Micco30 wrote:

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duncje wrote:

This is the big problem. It shouldn't be up to the DE's to "figure out" what the Devs want to do. If they know a few possibilities, they should present them here, and let us debate them. Otherwise we're just shooting in the dark, hoping to hit a moving target.

Hmmm, gonna have to agree to disagree here. You want THEM to tell us what we should have?? Sorry, I can't imagine that having the Dev's tell us about how to make our profession work, especially the ones who haven't even played the game as a DE, will be a "good thing" (TM). We have already seen what came out of that with the whole Droid Handler debacle. I would much rather run some things up the flagpole than be dictated to on what they want. I'm pretty sure what THEY want and what I want are two completely different things in many cases. We just have to find a commonality first.

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Micco, I'm saying that the Devs need to tell us what is possible. All we've gotten from them is negative responses ("That's too hard to code." "No extra checkers." "Not balanced.") Just once I'd like to hear from them: "Well, maybe X won't work, but we could possibly do something like Y." They haven't given us the dignity of such a response.

This game has Developers. You know, the ones who are supposed to Develop ideas and make them reality. It shouldn't be up to the player base to do their job for them. Let them present us with a few possibilities and let them be debated. That's not too much to ask, is it?

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DigitalOne wrote:

It really is time for unity here. I can understand anger, we're all upset. If we're going work, we have to work togeather, unity requires compromise. Its time to show the development our commitment to community and level headedness. We need a universal call for attention which is reasonable and articulate.

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Judging by your registered date, you're real new around here. Less than a month. I do not know if you've been playing longer, or just staying away from the boards, or just new altogether.

That being said, everything in your post has been tried before. MANY times over. We've been getting the run around since launch. My anger/frustration/pain is fully directed towards SOE, LucasArts, and the Dev Team for letting this game be far from what Star Wars signifies, not towards fellow players or DE's. To get anything done, we need total, utter outcry from the general population, not brown-nosing and rose-tinted glasses.