Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Devs please can you post what you want to do with droid commander
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Shian_Tavkin
Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:00 pm
#14
Shadow71 wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly with Micco's points.
Shian, I may get flamed for this, but as adults, we can agree to disagree.
What does your posts of the last day or so accomplish? Are you going to respond to EVERY positive poster with such remarks? It certainly will not help further the DE profession.
Everyone has the right to say what they feel or want to say, so I'm not telling you not to say it. It's just, I see you with this same post (different words, but in effect, the same), and I don't even have to read it to know what it's going to say, anymore. You may perhaps feel the same after reading my positive posts; I do not know. But, I am not the board police, say what you will, I enjoy the community here, everyone able to post what they like (within Terms of Service or whatnot).
"Trouble is, everything you are saying was said before, months and months ago, and we trusted and we tried..and now we are where we are..and it is not pretty.
So, go on and be positive and believe in the holy grail if you like, more power to you. Some of us know better and are still treating our burns."
I feel like you continually post this to try and invalidate what most people with a positive outlook or opinion say. Just because it may have been said before, does not invalidate it. Just because DE is in a troublesome state, does not invalidate it. Just because people have trusted things would work out and so far they haven't, does not invalidate it. Us saying this positive stuff does not invalidate your feelings or opinions or experiences either. But I feel as if you are constantly trying to invalidate anyone else's feelings, opinions, or experiences if they are more positive than your own. Everyone's opinion, feeling, etc, has its own weight and validity, and shouldn't just be swept under the rug because someone feels anything positively said is full of "spin", has been said before, etc.
I hope I am not offending, but I felt the need to say this. And I do appreciate where you are coming from, and I have, believe it or not, found several insightful things in some of your posts, as I have been lurking the last two months or so. Whether I find your posts helpful or not, they are just as valid as mine or anyone's, so please know I'm not trying to tell you what to say. I'm just expressiong my opinion, respectfully, if strongly.
Iree
Hey, express away, I'm not one to stop you, or even try.
However, I may be posting the same old thing, but not every thread stays on page one, and not every thread gets attention. I am sorry if you are bored.
I suggested I might leave...and there are many here who would breath a sigh of relief if I did, but I have had a surprising amount of PM's saying 'please don't leave'. Now that is gratifying.
So, you say what you want to, and I'll say what I want to. The one thing I can promise you is I care as much about DE as anyone, and if you don't like my approach--sorry
You ask what does it accomplish? - well if you had my PMs perhaps you would understand, but I'm not about to betray people by posting publicly what a lot of people think..that would be an easy justification but it would be ethically wrong. There is a reason I continue to post, I would have given up long ago if it was my opinion only. There are even people who post one thing and believe (and PM)in another, but even they are worth listening to, because they are people who really care,
As to my *paraphrase* damping down of 'every positive post'..ok so you may be right, maybe the future is bright, but I have been here a long time and I know spin, and bull and timesinks when I see them. If you want to be hopeful go ahead, but dont ask me to sit idly by while posts are written in high hopes that have zero chance of making it into the game.
Everyones thoughts and hopes and feelings do hav validity, I agree. Then, there is reality. I will never stop pointing out that hopes and dreams are all we have had for 9 months..hopes and dreams. If you cannot see that history tells you not to lie down with the herd, well nothing I post should matter to you either way.
In any case I have no intention of shutting up, I care about DE too much to do that yet.
So....insert word of preference here. Do not tell me what or what not to do.
Shadow71
Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:05 pm
#15
Just because it hasn't brought you the results you want before, is no reason to abandon working together and positivity. See my post a few posts up.
Iree
Iree
DigitalOne
Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:17 pm
#16
Ive been playing since august, been a DE since september. Im new to these boards alright, for some reason i couldnt post before but now i can. But that hardly undermines my statement,
Your right we've tired alot before... Conventional methods have proven inneffective. But thats not a call for zealousness . But i couldnt agree with you more. We absolutly need a unified voice strong enough to reach the Devs, to tell them how we feel, and to ask them what we need to know. The days of optimism are over. But we need to remember that to be taken seriousness we need to demonstrate reason. The hybrid rejection caused alittle bit of animosity between us, now is a critical time. Instead of petty bickering between each other we need to dirrect our voice in one direction, at the devs. But we cannot let anger take over.
Our Argument is reasonable, we want info, and a game plan for starters. Lets work accordingly
Call it idealism but theres substance behind it.
Things have changed alot, we are in a totaly different position now than afew days ago. The only information we got from the hybrid rejection is that its not what they want, and that theres criteria used that that proposal didnt achive. We need those criteria in order to progress. TK told us very first thing to get craking at something new, well what good will it do, we now theres a path we need to take but we dont know which direction its in.
Lets unify our voice of discontent.
Shadow71
Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:43 pm
#17
I wasn't telling you what to do, I was telling you my opinion of what you were doing. I know that's a fine distinction, and you of course have every right to be offended either way, but perhaps it xplains my intention better. I responded because in some ways I felt you were trying to tell everyone else what to do, which is why I voiced my opinion.
I also made sure to say, as I do mean it, that just because I disagree with your opinions doesn't mean they are invalid or any less right to post than mine. I have made sure to post that, and I do mean it. I don't think I can be clearer than that. I disagree with you, but respect your right to post what you want to. I feel as if you want me to apologize for holding my opinion, or you want to place me and those possibly like me off in a "fantasyland" of unreality, and sort of cast judgement that our opinions have no basis in reality. To me, mine does. You yourself seem to take the tone of tellings us, keep having faith if you like but it's meaningless, etc. That's your opinion, but to me your messages seem to be trying to squash posts like mine, or at least the spirit or intent thereof. From my point of view, I take quite a few of the things you say as trying to tell others what to do or say. Which is why I have responded so strongly, because that doesn't sit well with me, and it's also why I've tried to make it clear, without constantly apologizing for the strength of my opinion, that of course everyone has the right to their own opinion, regardless of my view of that opinion.
Anyway, I hope you know that I am NOT telling you what to do, but I respectfully disagree with most of your opinions. Multiple points of view is a great thing, even if I don't agree with all of them. Even if some of them get a bit of a rise out of me. I don't intend to keep debating this ad infinitum, but I feel that for a while it is reasonable to continue responding on this subject.
Iree
I also made sure to say, as I do mean it, that just because I disagree with your opinions doesn't mean they are invalid or any less right to post than mine. I have made sure to post that, and I do mean it. I don't think I can be clearer than that. I disagree with you, but respect your right to post what you want to. I feel as if you want me to apologize for holding my opinion, or you want to place me and those possibly like me off in a "fantasyland" of unreality, and sort of cast judgement that our opinions have no basis in reality. To me, mine does. You yourself seem to take the tone of tellings us, keep having faith if you like but it's meaningless, etc. That's your opinion, but to me your messages seem to be trying to squash posts like mine, or at least the spirit or intent thereof. From my point of view, I take quite a few of the things you say as trying to tell others what to do or say. Which is why I have responded so strongly, because that doesn't sit well with me, and it's also why I've tried to make it clear, without constantly apologizing for the strength of my opinion, that of course everyone has the right to their own opinion, regardless of my view of that opinion.
Anyway, I hope you know that I am NOT telling you what to do, but I respectfully disagree with most of your opinions. Multiple points of view is a great thing, even if I don't agree with all of them. Even if some of them get a bit of a rise out of me. I don't intend to keep debating this ad infinitum, but I feel that for a while it is reasonable to continue responding on this subject.
Iree
Shian_Tavkin
Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:30 am
#18
Micco30 wrote:
I could not agree more with that statementThat being said, we need to give them something to discuss. If we "rage against the machine" I can't imagine we will get that many responses. We've already seen that in practice. Time to move on and discuss (again) what could be possible. We at least now have an idea of what they DON'T like
I do not think there is any point whatsoever in spending huge amounts of time working up something for them to discuss.
Surely the only way is now for the developers to develop an idea and post it. Then and only then can we have any certainty that the basic foundations are 'acceptable'. The alternative is yet more weeks of wasted effort refing something that they will just shoot down.
Is it really too much to ask for the developers to state some groundrules?
This whole circular development method is fundementally flawed. Just look at utility droids - we come up with useful and immersive ideas for droid content, they shoot every idea down with various excuses, including the all time classic that droids are not to be allowed to augment a player skill.
So, if you want to engage in another futile attempt to second guess what they might or might not find acceptable, go ahead by all means. I for one will be doing no such thing unless and until we get some direction from the people who are paid to develop this game. As of now we have one info source saying think about a two or four tier profession, and on the other hand the latest comment from the Lead Developer stating he does not like the idea of a new profession ..etc etc
They are paid to develop and lead...let them do it for a change and I might be interested enough to participate. It worries me no end that there are a whole new crop of enthusiastic young DE's coming in here and posting all sorts of ideas, 99% of which are actually old ideas that were rejected long ago..I'm all for enthusiasm, but wasting time is another thing entirely. We need basic direction from the Devs.
And even then, I'm far from sure I can be bothered, the last nine months do not inspire any confidence at all.
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