Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: The Answer
The Plan
Skill Box | Skill Points| Max Level| Max Stored| Max Out |
|| Base 10|Base 5 |Base 1|
Novice DE|35|+5 [15]|+2(7) |+1 { 2 }|
'DC' 1 Box |+5/40 |+5 [20]|+2(9)|{ 2 } |
'DC' 2 Box| +4 /44 |+5 [25]| +2(11)|{ 2 } |
'DC' 3 Box| +3 /47 | +5[30]|+2(13) |{ 2 } |
'DC' 4 Box |+2/49|+5[35]| +2(15) |{ 2 } |
Master DE |+43 / 92|+12[47]| +3(18)| + 1 { 3 }|
Master Artisan 77|+12[17]| +3(8)| + 1 |
Maximum Cert140|[59]| ( 21 ) |{ 4 } |
Accessable to non DEs (droid sales. droids on the landscape)
Crafter 'Friiendly' (crafter skillpoints do not have any 'combat power' for this to stack on).
(No More Checkers! (g))
Message Edited by Boeda on 03-02-2004 01:38 PM
Message Edited by Boeda on 03-06-2004 01:35 PM
Message Edited by Boeda on 03-06-2004 02:11 PM
Message Edited by Boeda on 03-08-2004 07:32 PM
Just one question, what are you going to take out of DE to account for the additional skills and capabilities this gives us? How about medical modules, we could do without those.... or maybe item storage, no one uses that...
TH's checkers analogy still applies, the player has one full set of checkers (craftign skills) and is given another full set (combat skills). You can't balance crafting and combat seperately, they both must be taken into consideration at the same time.
Jenden wrote:Just one question, what are you going to take out of DE to account for the additional skills and capabilities this gives us? How about medical modules, we could do without those.... or maybe item storage, no one uses that...
TH's checkers analogy still applies, the player has one full set of checkers (craftign skills) and is given another full set (combat skills). You can't balance crafting and combat seperately, they both must be taken into consideration at the same time.
Not taking sides in this arguement, but wanted to point something out. Making DE a "Droid Handler" profession is acceptable by the Devs. Whether it looks unbalanced or not, it was their original idea for combat droid implementation. Remember the time Sintrosi went nuts and spilled the beans? "BE + CH = DE" was what she said.
According to the Devs, making DE a hybrid profession will not be unbalanced. Not argueing for or against it, just pointing it out
-norax
>TH's checkers analogy still applies, the player has one full set of checkers (craftign skills) and is given another full set (combat skills). You can't balance crafting and combat seperately, they both must be taken into consideration at the same time.<
No, the only way one persons 'checkers' are hurting another is if they are fighting (g) it not going to hurt if someone has some checkers off to the side baking cookies. It could even help. yes? (yes)
Seriously. I think any entertainer/crafter types. should have like, say, oh, 85% of the combat ability of what those same skillpoints would give to pure combat proffession. In ADDITION to any craft/entertainment abilities they might have. Its not going to upset PvP, nor PvE, balance. Some like me are drawn to crafting (or whatever) Yet, still want to be able to compete in exploration, questing, and combat. I think there are many in this situation.
This is not giving DEs too many checkers. It is giving DEs the checkers they have allways deserved. Its Not giving them to anyone for skillpoints they have spent on combat abilities.
It also helps other crafters to have some more well deserved 'checkers' too. It isnt all they need, but it gets them part way. That leaves somthing to add to other craft proffessions eventually and, the entertainers who are not helped at all by this. But not hurt either. Entertainers get slight evasion perks i guess. But need alot more, i expect.
> Just one question, what are you going to take out of DE to account for the additional skills and capabilities this gives us? How about medical modules, we could do without those.... or maybe item storage, no one uses that... <
As I said, I dont think anything need be taken from DEs. Somthing was needed to be added. Hence the whole 'Droid Evaision' idea as a solution for DEs for months.
Now if there was some reason to take somthing away (i dont think there is) I spose med mods, moving them rto doctors or somthing. and we could buy them from them to add to our droids, Would not be all that bad. But there is no reason.
Pure combats are not going to Fret if someone fighting beside them can also make pancakes. Pure crafters are not going to be outraged if the baker next door goes out hunting dragons at night.
Pure combats dont want tailors to be more 'Uber' than them. But 85% ? If they cant handle that, they need to learn to.
Simple is good... and once again I post a link to a thread that has been here for quite some time now, Rarely read it seems because we want to spend MORE and MORE time bashing the DEVs, Complaining, and Suggesting, with 0 (zero,ziltch,nil,nada) time spent on looking at what droids Really are! TOOLS!
I wish I had the time to post the awards for the number of times I read a post SCREAMING about how our profession is so bad and that we NEED combat droids to fix it....
Then the DEVs make a plan and poof... WE START COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIRPLAN till DE is once again brought to a halt!!!!
I noticed the Chef profession is being fixed... Could that be because they are graciously accepting the changes... and know that it won't be the last time the profession may change....
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=58051
Droid_Engineer_Rho wrote:
Maybe ithas something to do with not needing a new profession to use the new foods?
Boeda wrote:
If you add your checkers carefully, to skillpoints that have No combat power already. You are not slanting the game. You could similarly add crafting/service/whatever 'checkers' to combat proffessions without hurting anything. But there is not so much need to do that.
Usually this is not such an issue in a game where one who must craft can do that on one char and fight and adventure with another. It seems now that the single char slot. Is losing more accounts from cancelation than it gains from multiple accounts. If i could have two or more chars I wouldnt care that much. I'd have a DE in one char and a DH on another. But I do have one char. I want my cake and adventure too.
Yes, you are slanting the game. Game balance has many more aspects to it than just combat. Giving Droid Engineers more combat capabilities tilts game balance in their favor, even if you're not giving them terribly powerful combat capabilities. Why? Because Droid Engineers basically have zero combat capabilities of their own to start with. You're giving them additional abilities, so something's gotta give in order to keep the game balanced overall.
I agree with you that the problem is exacerbated by the fact that players can only have one character per server. However, I also understand at least some of the reasons for that. SOE learned from EverQuest and didn't want individual player to become, essentially, one-person armies. I knew players in EQ who had 5, 6, and sometimes even 7 characters who were max level. They could do anything they wanted to - there was no tradeoff for them. SOE wanted players to have to make choices in SWG. They didn't want players to be able to have one character that could go out and "harvest" the ph4t l3wts for a different one of their characters to use in crafting. It's an attempt to create interdependence between players. They're forcing an economy into existance because my Droid Engineer CANNOT, all by himself, also be l33t at PvP or for that matter even PvE.
Yes, they could add "minor" combat capabilities to Droid Engineer without unbalancing the game. But to do so, they would have to gimp or remove other capabilities of Droid Engineers in the process. And that's a tradeoff that many of us are not willing to make just to get combat abilities that we can easily obtain by picking up some other combat profession.
Kollos wrote:
Game balance has many more aspects to it than just combat. Giving Droid Engineers more combat capabilities tilts game balance in their favor, even if you're not giving them terribly powerful combat capabilities. Why? Because Droid Engineers basically have zero combat capabilities of their own to start with. You're giving them additional abilities,
Your trying to balance Pomogranites and Vollyballs ! (the apples and oranges thing)
You can compare combat abilities. you can see who wins a fight with equal skillpoints and different abilities, with each other, or against 'the environment'. Or who is as/more powerfull with less skillpoints Etc. The need for balance in this area is Clear ! You dont want so and so to be able to be way more powerfull than you. Whether they're beating up you. Or just competing for your favorite hunting tagets/loot. I Understand the need for combat balance.
You are telling me you want crafting power balance. Now I see,, 'May be' we could compare crafting power. In what ? the money/ hour or day one could make selling stuff ? The additive power of how much compat items we could make in those hours/days ? Whatever. Its more difuciult to judge crafting 'power'. But maby there is reason for 'crafting balance' of some sort. But there isnt ! Architechs make more mmoney. BEs make more powerfull items. Tailors ? Go ahead and balance crafts with one another if tyour determined.
But, WHY try to balance Craft skills with Combat ??? I do not understand your need. I can not see a means of comparison. But if you must? why not values craft skillpoints as worth 15% orf combat skillpoints ? You cant beat anyone up with them. You cant eat them. they dont look good naked. What Do You Want ?
Do you by any chance have multiple accounts while you are pooing on the need for crafter combat skills ?
Kollos wrote:
They didn't want players to be able to have one character that could go out and "harvest" the ph4t l3wts for a different one of their characters to use in crafting. It's an attempt to create interdependence between players. They're forcing an economy into existance because my Droid Engineer CANNOT, all by himself, also be l33t at PvP or for that matter even PvE.
Well I and many other players, want. More char slots. More Skillpoints. Or, More abilities in a sigles char. I know many people who have canceled who said they would have stayed or would come back if they had another char slot, or more skillpoints on thier one char.
I do not enjoy a forced dependance. And I would Still have Plenty of dependance {Armor, weapons, cloths, foods, spices, slicing, doctors, 'entertainment', hunting partners (yes I would have need for hunting partners if I could do anything but stay home and 'craft') Etc.} If, i could also use combat droids. It would help me. Who would it hurt ?
I suggest anyone who claims to be hurt by this, seek Fiber.
Kollos wrote:
Yes, they could add "minor" combat capabilities to Droid Engineer without unbalancing the game. But to do so, they would have to gimp or remove other capabilities of Droid Engineers in the process. And that's a tradeoff that many of us are not willing to make just to get combat abilities that we can easily obtain by picking up some other combat profession.
No, They could add MAJOR combat capabilities to Droid Engineer without unbalancing the game !
To do so they would not have to giimp or remove Anything. Buut would in fact balance DEs and be a step or more towards balancing crafts people in general.
And, That is a trade off "many of us" ARE willing to make !
I dont know how easy it is for you to "pick up some other combat profession" But my skillpoints are quite stressed, while tring to avoid some interdependance of sub component procurement from master arts and archtect. As well as having some other handy skills. (exploration, and other scout things. I see advantage to having novice medic. many other things to taste. Etc) In any case its not "easy" for me. If I had to learn another profession for combat I would want 'Droid Commander" But I would rather get it within DE, like the CHs do. And a full cert would cost significantly more than CH FWIW.
I do not have to abide by your rules of balance. I will have to contend with what the developers mandate. I hope thier idea of balance is closer to mine.