Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: OMG TK, you put me on the floor.
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Straker_Atrella
Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:03 pm
#1
Copied from the loooooong in response to us being told we should test the changes on TC.
I respectfully respond that I don't have to 'test' playing Russian Roulette to know that it's a bad idea.
Lol TK, that was awesome. /salute
Obviously, he had much wisdom to impart, but in a period of gloom, you really made me laugh.
Message Edited by Straker_Atrella on 02-12-2005 11:07 AM
TheRealTK421
Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:20 pm
#2
Heh...well, I thought it more important to make a point. I guess it was a bit funny.
What I guess I was suggesting was that each time I pull the trigger (lower prices to compete), I grow closer to shooting myself in the head. If it comes to that, I'll set down the gun (close shop) and just....err..../shrug.
What amazes me is the people that are sorta 'getting on' the crafter/merchants for being against this. I'm seeing the expected cries that we're "greedy", etc. Obviously these are folks that have never attempted to get a good, successful crafting/merchant business up and running.
...oh well.
/bow
Respectfully,
What I guess I was suggesting was that each time I pull the trigger (lower prices to compete), I grow closer to shooting myself in the head. If it comes to that, I'll set down the gun (close shop) and just....err..../shrug.
What amazes me is the people that are sorta 'getting on' the crafter/merchants for being against this. I'm seeing the expected cries that we're "greedy", etc. Obviously these are folks that have never attempted to get a good, successful crafting/merchant business up and running.
...oh well.
/bow
Respectfully,
Straker_Atrella
Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:59 pm
#3
A bit funny?
Lol, I am sick and twisted, so maybe it was just me, but I found that hilarious.
The problem is that a lot of people have never tried being a crafter, and if they did, it may have been during the hologrind, where they had it for a day. Heck, they may have even whipped out a bnch of stuff, and tossed it on the Bazaar, so they really don't have any real clue about a business.
I don't think they comprehend at all what the business playstyle is like. They toss out words like competiiton and capatalism because they sound good, even though they really don't apply.
Different playstyles are just foreign to them, Entertainers have been facing this for a while, it was wrong then, and is wrong now.
jefmes
Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:58 pm
#4
I gotta admit, that's a pretty damn good analogy to describe any obviously bad situation 
I'll have to use it next time someone here in our IT dept recommends something blatantly stupid.
I'll have to use it next time someone here in our IT dept recommends something blatantly stupid.So you guys are still against this even with the auto-retrieval gone if I'm understanding correctly? I'm surprised honestly - it opens up the market and should help things flow more easily and freely, but there will still be plenty of room to make a name for yourself in terms of quality, availability, and service.
TheRealTK421
Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:35 pm
#5
I'm actually for the change....if they remove pricing from the search list.
Some may say this is a bad idea.
I say it's right to 'value' finding a merchant/mall/crafter that has good stock. It also means that our Barker modules still have value in addition to the myriad of current methods people use to advertise.
If this change goes in, as is, we can pretty much do away with the Trade Forums...for example.
/bow
Respectfully,
Some may say this is a bad idea.
I say it's right to 'value' finding a merchant/mall/crafter that has good stock. It also means that our Barker modules still have value in addition to the myriad of current methods people use to advertise.
If this change goes in, as is, we can pretty much do away with the Trade Forums...for example.
/bow
Respectfully,
Jenden
Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:38 pm
#6
jefmes wrote:I gotta admit, that's a pretty damn good analogy to describe any obviously bad situationSo you guys are still against this even with the auto-retrieval gone if I'm understanding correctly? I'm surprised honestly - it opens up the market and should help things flow more easily and freely, but there will still be plenty of room to make a name for yourself in terms of quality, availability, and service.
If nothing else its something that seriously needs to be evaluated. Put it in without pricing and see how things go. Then re-evalute the situation with the data thats been collected. Makes the most sense to me.
jefmes
Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:53 am
#7
Jenden wrote:
jefmes wrote:
I gotta admit, that's a pretty damn good analogy to describe any obviously bad situation
So you guys are still against this even with the auto-retrieval gone if I'm understanding correctly? I'm surprised honestly - it opens up the market and should help things flow more easily and freely, but there will still be plenty of room to make a name for yourself in terms of quality, availability, and service.
If nothing else its something that seriously needs to be evaluated. Put it in without pricing and see how things go. Then re-evalute the situation with the data thats been collected. Makes the most sense to me.
I don't know, to me doing it without pricing seems to open up too many other holes and makes the system much less useful. We still can have the problem with people putting large entrance fees on their shops, and then while when you think you've finally found an item you've been looking for, you have to travel there see if the price is actually reasonable. Another side effect that I know I wouldn't like...
"Hey, what are you selling X for?"
"Hi there, saw product X on the listing, can you tell me how much it is?"
"Hello there! I saw that you sell this thing here, can you guarantee that it'll still be there when I come to pick it up in 4 days?"
Price will be the overriding factor I'm sure in most cases, but there's more to selling items and having a business, real or in game. You all know that, otherwise you still wouldn't be doing it! I also think it'll kill the necessity of some of the out-of-game resources out there. We need more tools in game, not some random webpage put together by someone who can quit updating it when they're bored, after everyone has gotten used to relying on it.
Micco30
Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:24 am
#8
TK,
Again, a couple of questions for you on this change.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
I'm actually for the change....if they remove pricing from the search list.
If you didn't have prices attached to an item, what would you replace it with? A waypoint? would the waypoint be for sale also? How does this help make someones search for a particular item "easier"?
I say it's right to 'value' finding a merchant/mall/crafter that has good stock. It also means that our Barker modules still have value in addition to the myriad of current methods people use to advertise.
How would "value" the malls/crafters with the good stock?What isa"good stock"?As an example, if one mall has 15 vendors that are fully stocked with a bunch of mass produced low quality items, what happens to the small guy who only has 3 vendors in a house but his is stocked with more useful or high qualityitems?
If this change goes in, as is, we can pretty much do away with the Trade Forums...for example.
I'm going to have to disagree with this statement.The Trade Forums almost always sell items that people dont want to or won't put on a vendor. Plus some items sell for more than the price cap for vendors. Why do you think this true?
Thanks for your time TK
Straker_Atrella
Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:08 am
#9
Yes people should get a waypoint to the persons shop.
People hate empty vendors, I 100% agree that there should be a way for them to find stocked ones. For example, if they look under the new system for Pistols, they may see 10 vendors with pistols. One has 2 pistols, 5 have 10 Pistols, and 3 have 50 pistols. That person now can choose which vendors he wants to go to first and look at.
No more finding empty vendors.
The reason I am against this current system is two fold.
On quality items, if you are not 12 points, or have the total best resources, people will not buy your stuff. It used to be that if your item was better then what they had as they saw the vendor they may buy it. Then a week later replace it as they saw a better on another vendor. Now, they will simply buy the absolute best the first time.This will totally cut out impulse buying, and the lower to middle crafters.
On items where quality doesn't matter it will be even worse. Let's face it, there are people out therewith very little business sense. For example on the main thread of this issue, and Arch is very excited about this change. He brags that he is ready to compete with everybody in the new system, iftey can't handle it to quit. He sells small houses for 4k, and Heavy Harvs for 10k. That is a 1.21 Cpu profit on the house and a 0.2 profit on the Harvestor. He could make more simply selling the houses. He could increase his sales by 5 or even 10 times and sell just as many, increasing is profit as well. All the other Archs will look at those prices and shaketheir heads atthe folly. Should they sell at 0.1 cpu to compete? All it takes is one person with bad business sense to totally ruin the market on items where quality doesn't matter.
Putting every item side by side for instant comparison of stats, as well as price will be bad for both markets.
Making your money from crafting is a valid playstyle and should not be denied anybody.
TheRealTK421
Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:05 am
#10
/bow
Micco30 wrote:
TK,
Again, a couple of questions for you on this change.
If it helps...I know as much on the proposed change as you all do.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
I'm actually for the change....if they remove pricing from the search list.
If you didn't have prices attached to an item, what would you replace it with? A waypoint? would the waypoint be for sale also? How does this help make someones search for a particular item "easier"?
If you're looking for a certain ore (or like me last night, Extrusive Ore), you'd just be able to search for that particular item. That's easier....a lot. I narrows down the vendors you need to visit to only those that have what you're after.
I say it's right to 'value' finding a merchant/mall/crafter that has good stock. It also means that our Barker modules still have value in addition to the myriad of current methods people use to advertise.
How would "value" the malls/crafters with the good stock?What isa"good stock"?As an example, if one mall has 15 vendors that are fully stocked with a bunch of mass produced low quality items, what happens to the small guy who only has 3 vendors in a house but his is stocked with more useful or high qualityitems?
In this case, 'size matters not'. What counts is availability. That's what this change should represent...to me. The end of searching vendors for the actual item you're after. Price isn't massively important to me if I know several vendors actually have what I'm after.
If this change goes in, as is, we can pretty much do away with the Trade Forums...for example.
I'm going to have to disagree with this statement.
Err...I don't really, it was hyperbole. I do see them not being as active though, I'd think.
Respectfully,
Crustyfur
Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:36 am
#11
Straker_Atrella wrote:
On items where quality doesn't matter it will be even worse. Let's face it, there are people out therewith very little business sense. For example on the main thread of this issue, and Arch is very excited about this change. He brags that he is ready to compete with everybody in the new system, iftey can't handle it to quit. He sells small houses for 4k, and Heavy Harvs for 10k. That is a 1.21 Cpu profit on the house and a 0.2 profit on the Harvestor. He could make more simply selling the houses. He could increase his sales by 5 or even 10 times and sell just as many, increasing is profit as well. All the other Archs will look at those prices and shaketheir heads atthe folly. Should they sell at 0.1 cpu to compete? All it takes is one person with bad business sense to totally ruin the market on items where quality doesn't matter.
Very very scary. Finally the "I am not in it for the money" crafters WILL have an effect on my sales and the market as a whole. I know a couple of DE's on my server that sell HQ items for very little. This i think will be the nail in the coffin for many DE's no matter what the server.
TheRealTK421
Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:58 am
#12
Mmmm...yes, and I'm worried about the little guy in this as well.
Crustyfur wrote:
Very very scary. Finally the "I am not in it for the money" crafters WILL have an effect on my sales and the market as a whole. I know a couple of DE's on my server that sell HQ items for very little. This i think will be the nail in the coffin for many DE's no matter what the server.
It will be a lot easier for the larger outfits and 'conglomerates' to totally squash competition by bottoming out the market for a certain product (or group of products) until the competition gives up.
Then they jack them back up again until the next poor guy tries to get a foothold and gain some marketshare.
That's a good example of why showing price on the search is a very bad idea.
/bow
Respectfully,
Electro5
Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:21 am
#13
Either that or the big guys will just buy everything that the lower priced people are selling and jack up the prices that way.
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