Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DE Focus Thread #1: The Skill Tree
Fellow "sub-optimal" DEs,
As promised, I'm opening up the vaults and digging out my thoughts on the changes needed to our profession.
To me, this all starts with the skill tree.
How many of us followed the 'standard' path?
1. Grind MSEs
2. Get to BP2
3. Grind Adv. Droid Frames till Master
4. Finally enjoy the profession.
I wouldn't say everyone did it...but I know that MANY did. That's just sad.
In addition, the entire skill tree never really made much sense to me in terms of the layout and distribution of parts, skills and schematics. The tree is pretty heavily unbalanced towards the Blueprints tree (and the Production/Construction trees for crafting stations and modules).
For this reason, I've reworked the skill tree into what I personally believe would provide a more enjoyable experience (without quite as much grinding). I've also tried to make the layout more logical.
Here's how this all basically breaks down:
Droid Production tree: Modules (Medical, Item and Data) and Misc. droid parts
Droid Construction tree: Armor Modules and droid Chassis
Droid Refinement tree: Crafting stations and Customization
Droid Blueprints tree: Droid Deeds (nothing more)
The bonus to my layout changes means that the entire tree will be more balanced, in terms of what's gained at each skill box.
Since this is a focus thread, please try to focus exclusively on the skill tree's layout and such.
(note: Since I knew that DEs would be getting raised to 100 Experimentation points, I've also taken the liberty of redistributing those 100 based on what I believe fits the best.)
The floor is now open...
/bow
Respectfully,
DE Skill Tree Diagram Key:
D = Droid Deed/Schematic
S = Skill Mod.
P = Droid Part, Module or Chassis
Novice Droid Engineer:
S - Droid Experimentation: +5
S - Droid Customization: +4
D - MSE Droid
D - DZ70 Droid
D - Seeker Droid
P - Manipulator Arm
P - Droid Motive System
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 1
P - Level 1 Droid Medical Module
P - Level 1 Droid Data Module
P - Level 1 Droid Item Storage Module
P - Stupid Base Droid Personality Chip
Intermediate Level:
Droid Production:
P - Level 2 Droid Medical Module
P - Level 2 Droid Data Module
P - Level 2 Droid Item Storage Module
P - Droid Sensor Package
P - Manipulator Arm Package Set
Droid Construction:
S - Droid Assembly: +5
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 2
P - Droid Storage Compartment
Droid Refinement:
S - Droid Experimentation: +10
S - Droid Customization: +8
P - Sarcastic Base Droid Personality Chip
P - Weapon/Droid/General Crafting Station Module
Droid Blueprints:
D - Treadwell Droid
D - R5 Droid
D - MSE Droid, Adv. Model
D - Power Droid
Advanced Level:
Droid Production:
P - Level 3 Medical Module
P - Level 3 Data Storage Module
P - Level 3 Item Storage Module
P - Droid Brain
P - Adv. Droid Motive System
Droid Construction:
S - Droid Assembly: +5
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 3
P - R4 ADV Chassis
P - Surgical 21-B ADV. Chassis
P - Droid Repair Module
Droid Refinement:
S - Droid Experimentation: +15
S - Droid Customization: +8
P - Prissy Base Droid Personality Chip
P - Clothing/Armor Crafting Station Module
Droid Blueprints:
D - R5 Droid, ADV Model
D - R4 Droid
D - WED Treadwell, ADV Model
D - DZ70 Droid, ADV Model
D - Arakyd Probe Droid
Expert Level:
Droid Production:
P - Level 4 Medical Module
P - Level 4 Data Storage Module
P - Level 4 Item Storage Module
P - ADV. Droid Brain
P - GSM (General Socket/Cluster Module)
Droid Construction:
S - Droid Assembly: +10
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 4
P - R2 ADV Chassis
P - LE Repair, ADV. Chassis
P - Probot ADV Chassis
Droid Refinement:
S - Droid Experimentation: +20
S - Droid Customization: +12
P - Worshipful Base Droid Personality Chip
P - Food/Chemical Crafting Station Module
Droid Blueprints:
D - LE Repair Droid
D - Surgical Droid
D - R2 Droid
D - Probot
D - Power Droid, ADV Model
D - R4 Droid, ADV Model
Master Level:
Droid Production:
P - Level 5 Medical Module
P - Level 5 Data Storage Module
P - Level 5 Item Storage Module
P - ADV. Droid Frame Unit
Droid Construction:
S - Droid Assembly: +15
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 5
P - R3 ADV Chassis
P - Protocol Droid, ADV Chassis
P - ADV BLL Chassis
Droid Refinement:
S - Droid Experimentation: +25
S - Droid Customization: +16
P - Slang Base Droid Personality Chip
P - Structure Crafting Station Module
Droid Blueprints:
D - R3 Droid
D - R2 Droid, ADV
D - Probot, ADV
D - BLL Droid
D - Protocol Droid
D - LE Repair ADV
Master Droid Engineer:
S - Droid Assembly: +20
S - Droid Experimentation: +25
S - Droid Complexity: +20
S - Droid Customization: +16
D - Surgical 21-B ADV
D - R3 Droid, Advanced Model
D - Bin. Load Lifter Droid, Adv
D - Protocol Droid, Advanced Model
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 6
P - Level 6 Droid Medical Module
P - Level 6 Droid Data Module
P - Level 6 Droid Item Storage Model
P - Geeky Base Droid Personality Chip
This looks good, if we are only using existing information (and the revised experimentation pts.). Of course revisions will be needed every time a new idea is introduced in any of the other focus areas.
This only thing that concerns me about this set up is that unless there is some change in module functionality, I still don't see much reason to advance beyond Expert Droid Production.
But with a little work, in another focus area, this is a good looking skill arrangment.
Adv. droid frames at Master Production???...ouch.
Domacett wrote:
This looks good, if we are only using existing information (and the revised experimentation pts.).
Since I don't have up my complete set of threads yet, the revised skill tree that I've put up won't make much sense.
I wanted to get it up so that others could start to consider their responses.
Of course revisions will be needed every time a new idea is introduced in any of the other focus areas.
I've already taken this into account when I built the revised tree (as it relates to the other info I'll be passing along in my other Focus Threads).
This only thing that concerns me about this set up is that unless there is some change in module functionality, I still don't see much reason to advance beyond Expert Droid Production.
I think that there very likely will be changes to module functionality vis a vis "stacking". My overall vision kind of counts on this. If not, you do need to get to Master Droid Production to be able to build Adv. Droid Frames. So, that's reason enough.
But with a little work, in another focus area, this is a good looking skill arrangment.
Just you wait...
After you see what I have on tap for the other Focus Threads, you'll see the beauty and the goodness. I promise.
Adv. droid frames at Master Production???...ouch.
I told you....no more "grind".
/bow
Respectfully,
This looks like a really good arrangement, as far as existing goes. It is definately more rounded, and looks like it would make it a lot harder to grind through. I, myself, am currently grinding. I hate doing it, but the way it is now, I can't sell a droid anyone would want until I get much further in the tree. With this set up, under the conditions for your other focus threads (i.e. module restrictions and droid functionalities), it looks more viable for a novice DE to begin selling his/her wares from the beginning.
The Advanced Droid Frame Unit. Keeping that high up on the tree is probably the main reason this arrangement will prevent grinding. However, what about the droids that require that component? I'm not able to look at any schematics right now, so I may be a little off. Is it logical to receive a schematic that requires a component at a higher level? Actually, being in seperate branches may help justify that, just thought I'd point it out.
The other issue I have is this. It is such a major change from what it currently is. Even if the devs agreed on such a new layout, how could it be implemented live? For Master DEs it wouldnt make a difference, nor to those who haven't started yet. But for those of us with a few skill boxes here and there (myself being 1/2/0/3) how would they change it? Would I receive (or lose as the case may be) schematics to reflect the new skills? Or would I be refunded the skills and xp and be able to pick and choose from scratch which way I want to go? I realize, that is a question only the devs should be able to answer, but as a wishlist item I think it best that a few thoughts on the implementation process be available, so I open that up for discussion in addition to TKs beautiful skill tree 
Terranah wrote:
We need some kind of changes, and this looks like a good start.
Thanks...if you think this is cool, just wait.
The best part about making things is being able to make a good product and taking pride in your accomplishment. Also, the competitive aspect of trying to create the highest quality product is very addictive. This works well at the artisan level, but my understanding is that in DE it doesnt matter what kind of resources you use, the end product is the same. If this is the case, then this should be a priority as well.
This competitive "market" in quality is a primary problem with our profession and something that I plan on addressing soon (note: I place this at the #3 focus thread due solely on its importance to our future).
Also, more droids at the top of the skill tree. Everyone is saying droideka, which would be cool. But what about the spider droid in the warren as a combat droid. Thats what I want!
This is a future thing, I think. I'll primarily be talking about existing droid chassis, since it's easier to fix a wheel than you create a new one.
Thanks for coming up with some ideas for the skill trees. Peeps with ideas and constructive comments and suggestions is what will make this profession fun!
Actually, having the Devs take the best possible ideas and implement them bug-free is what will help more.
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Fellow "sub-optimal" DEs,
As promised, I'm opening up the vaults and digging out my thoughts on the changes needed to our profession.
To me, this all starts with the skill tree.
How many of us followed the 'standard' path?
1. Grind MSEs
2. Get to BP2
3. Grind Adv. Droid Frames till Master
4. Finally enjoy the profession.
I wouldn't say everyone did it...but I know that MANY did. That's just sad.
All hail the Sub-Optimal!
I was able to work my way to MA without grinding... of course people actually wanted bone armor back then. Sold almost every item I ever made. But when I hit DE, I could see that the way things were laid out there was just no practical way of doing that.
So I ground. And I hated it.
I hope Sintrosi can get you some dev attention to these threads...
Terranah wrote:
Also, more droids at the top of the skill tree. Everyone is saying droideka, which would be cool. But what about the spider droid in the warren as a combat droid. Thats what I want!
TheRealTK421 wrote:
This is a future thing, I think. I'll primarily be talking about existing droid chassis, since it's easier to fix a wheel than you create a new one.
This is where the thread that I'm trying to work on would come into play. Its not as well structured as what TheRealTK421, but its a start and from some of the feed back, its headed in a good direction.
So, where is Focus Thread # 3 already....hehe
Doh....something about a kingdom for an edit button...
Focus Thread #2
Okay, so far Focus # 1 deals with Goratoth's 2-J issue.
I'm sure the other focus threads will catch quite a few more.
Domacett wrote:
Okay, so far Focus # 1 deals with Goratoth's 2-J issue.
It wasn't my intent to use Gorantoth's threads as a primer of some kind. If I addressed an issue through my plan, it was simply coincendental.
On a side note: Congrats to the first FS player out there. I hope you have recovered from your near-fatal heart attack and that we'll see you soon. Good luck..."you're gonna need it" (- Han, ROTJ).
/bow
Respectfully,
I ask with the look at the DE profession and a chance to give input why does DE have to follow every crafter path? I have been thinking about what the devs propose and while some merit it led me to thinking, and here is my modest idea.
Create a truly hybrid profession
Blend a mix of Bio Engineer (the ones the devs will be iomplementing),Creature Handler, and Crafter
Thus a DE could in essence build the droids, customize the combat effectiveness for player characters and alter droids combat abilities to their preferences (more shield vs less dmg, range vs melee, and possibly different type postures such as attack,defend,guard-ex:defense type droid will protect/tank for a player being attacked such as a crafter allowing him to maybe escape,attack is a type that will kill or be it killed its assigned target,and a bodyguard will do a mixture of both) This is the aspect of what the BE will have if the devs posts are accurate. Also give them repair kits to sell/make for players similiar to pet stims or vitality packs.
The creature handler part will be the droid's the DE can handle at once but still limited to a certain combat lvl, as they arent meant to be a combat class, but they shld be able to handle several droids at once, plus maybe even a higher than non DE type combat droid at a master status, after all I doubt many will work thru this profession tree off artisan to achieve a decent attack pet. Also at certain skill levels an upgrade to what type of AI they can give to a droid, which would limit the amount of commands it can recieve with the culmination of a master being able to program in short phrases for commands, like a greet and such for humanoid droids and maybe idle modes.
The crafter part will be the actual construction of droids, while I would like to be able to build droids modular(diff heads,chassis,arms, and such) I am not sure this could or would be done by the devs, but it would provide very many unique looks to droids, especially with varying colors. I also think some of the chassis should have innate abilites or bonuses granted to them, like the BLL having a +10 inv w/o the module thus adding one would give it 20 at master, surgical droids with their medical bonus, and give the protocal chassis the ability to repeat the last few spatial commands that were said in a non basic speech.
These were not nearly as formatted as the posters, and to be honest I would be happy if they just gave us droids that had a purpose other than a crafting station. I liked several ideas by several and even some the devs listed, but I cant help feel that one of the key players in ALL the SW episodes are being the least utilized and the accomplisment to MDE just seems empty, and the only time I see my droids are when someone pulls em out at a camp for a crafting session or the probots. I would love to see a world where droids are following players more so than any animal and that they have purposes other than being called out for a quick craft or heal and being stored again.
I can see what you have in mind here, but some of the changes are too drastic, such aswith the AdvSurgical Droid. Here is what I suggest -
Novice Droid Engineer:
S - Droid Experimentation: +5
S - Droid Customization: +4
D - MSE Droid
D - DZ70 Droid
D - Seeker Droid
P - Manipulator Arm
P - Droid Motive System
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 1
P - Level 1 Droid Medical Module
P - Level 1 Droid Data Module
P - Level 1 Droid Item Storage Module
P - Stupid Base Droid Personality Chip
Intermediate Level:
Droid Production:
P - Level 2 Droid Medical Module
P - Level 2 Droid Data Module
P - Level 2 Droid Item Storage Module
P - Droid Sensor Package
P - Manipulator Arm Package Set
Droid Construction:
S - Droid Assembly: +5
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 2
P - Droid Storage Compartment
Droid Refinement:
S - Droid Experimentation: +10
S - Droid Customization: +8
P - Sarcastic Base Droid Personality Chip
P - Weapon/Droid/General Crafting Station Module
Droid Blueprints:
D - Treadwell Droid
D - R5 Droid
D - MSE Droid, Adv. Model
D - Power Droid
Advanced Level:
Droid Production:
P - Level 3 Medical Module
P - Level 3 Data Storage Module
P - Level 3 Item Storage Module
P - Droid Brain
P - Adv. Droid Motive System
Droid Construction:
S - Droid Assembly: +5
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 3
P - R4 ADV Chassis
P - Droid Repair Module
Droid Refinement:
S - Droid Experimentation: +15
S - Droid Customization: +8
P - Prissy Base Droid Personality Chip
P - Clothing/Armor Crafting Station Module
Droid Blueprints:
D - R5 Droid, ADV Model
D - R4 Droid
D - WED Treadwell, ADV Model
D - DZ70 Droid, ADV Model
D - Arakyd Probe Droid
Expert Level:
Droid Production:
P - Level 4 Medical Module
P - Level 4 Data Storage Module
P - Level 4 Item Storage Module
P - ADV. Droid Brain
P - GSM (General Socket/Cluster Module)
P - ADV. Droid Frame Unit
Droid Construction:
S - Droid Assembly: +10
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 4
P - R2 ADV Chassis
P - Surgical 21-B ADV. Chassis
P - LE Repair, ADV. Chassis
P - Probot ADV Chassis
Droid Refinement:
S - Droid Experimentation: +20
S - Droid Customization: +12
P - Worshipful Base Droid Personality Chip
P - Food/Chemical Crafting Station Module
Droid Blueprints:
D - LE Repair Droid
D - Surgical Droid
D - R2 Droid
D - Probot
D - Power Droid, ADV Model
D - R4 Droid, ADV Model
Master Level:
Droid Production:
P - Level 5 Medical Module
P - Level 5 Data Storage Module
P - Level 5 Item Storage Module
Droid Construction:
S - Droid Assembly: +15
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 5
P - R3 ADV Chassis
P - Protocol Droid, ADV Chassis
P - ADV BLL Chassis
Droid Refinement:
S - Droid Experimentation: +25
S - Droid Customization: +16
P - Slang Base Droid Personality Chip
P - Structure Crafting Station Module
Droid Blueprints:
D - R3 Droid
D - R2 Droid, ADV
D - Probot, ADV
D - BLL Droid
D - Protocol Droid
D - LE Repair ADV
D - Surgical 21-B ADV
Master Droid Engineer:
S - Droid Assembly: +20
S - Droid Experimentation: +25
S - Droid Complexity: +20
S - Droid Customization: +16
D - R3 Droid, Advanced Model
D - Bin. Load Lifter Droid, Adv
D - Protocol Droid, Advanced Model
P - Droid Armor Module - Level 6
P - Level 6 Droid Medical Module
P - Level 6 Droid Data Module
P - Level 6 Droid Item Storage Model
P - Geeky Base Droid Personality Chip
As to why : The Advanced Surgical Droid, its Chassis, and the normal Surgical Droidseemed to be to spread out from one another. I'm guessing that you have something in mind in a different Focus Thread, however spreading out the Chassis from the actually droid would really confuse a lot of new DEs that walked into the profession without 'doing their homework'. I'd suggest moving the Advanced Droid Frame down a level due to the number of droids that would need it at Expert Blueprints. I can see the stress on trying to add function to a droid, however a system such as this is very limiting to how many droids a Novice would be able to create if they wanted to level up the profession in an even manner. A Novice would have to be 4/0/3/3 if they wanted to try and make a decent bit of income from Medcial R2 sales. In the model that I propose, a Novice could be 3/0/3/3 and be able to offer a product to our largest target group, Medics.
Otherwise, I like the change ideas.
Mabinogi wrote:
This looks like a really good arrangement, as far as existing goes. It is definately more rounded, and looks like it would make it a lot harder to grind through.
Yes...that was one of my primary concerns as I thought about the skill tree changes. You're supposed to enjoy the ride to the top. Grinding it outwholesale isn't fun for anyone.
I, myself, am currently grinding. I hate doing it, but the way it is now, I can't sell a droid anyone would want until I get much further in the tree. With this set up, under the conditions for your other focus threads (i.e. module restrictions and droid functionalities), it looks more viable for a novice DE to begin selling his/her wares from the beginning.
This is also one of my primary concerns. It will be addressed in one of my future threads and the skill box changes I've posted actually play into my 'vision' of how this will work out in the end.
This particular 'story' is only partly told, thus far...
The Advanced Droid Frame Unit. Keeping that high up on the tree is probably the main reason this arrangement will prevent grinding.
Yes...that's why I put it there. If the "grindable" part is kept at a low level, no players will ever give a tinker's cuss about trying to keep their eye on the ball, so to speak.
However, what about the droids that require that component? I'm not able to look at any schematics right now, so I may be a little off. Is it logical to receive a schematic that requires a component at a higher level? Actually, being in seperate branches may help justify that, just thought I'd point it out.
As stated, part of my concern was to solve the imbalance of the DE skill tree as it relates to the Blueprint line. The Droids that require the Adv. Droid Frame are all higher level droids anyway. This setup prevents the grind up the Blueprints tree as the primary 'path' (like so many of us were basically forced to take).
The other issue I have is this. It is such a major change from what it currently is. Even if the devs agreed on such a new layout, how could it be implemented live?
That's up to them. I look at what the ends...they will have to figure out how to bestget us there.
For Master DEs it wouldnt make a difference, nor to those who haven't started yet. But for those of us with a few skill boxes here and there (myself being 1/2/0/3) how would they change it?
You'd simply keep the boxes you already have (and all that comes with it). You'd then need to alter you plan for how to "play" the DE tree based on the new changes.
Would I receive (or lose as the case may be) schematics to reflect the new skills?
Yes, maybe both.
Or would I be refunded the skills and xp and be able to pick and choose from scratch which way I want to go?
I'd simply think it easiest just to let you keep the skill boxes you'd earned. You mightget new 'stuff' and have some stuff taken away. However, in the end, it would all balance out.
I realize, that is a question only the devs should be able to answer, but as a wishlist item I think it best that a few thoughts on the implementation process be available, so I open that up for discussion in addition to TKs beautiful skill tree
I have a LOT more information forthcoming that will affect how people will view this skill tree change. This is like step 1 of a total of 11. Keep that in mind...
/bow
Respectfully,