Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Droid Certs? NO! Make a Pet Skill Tree Never Seen before, something new.

DarthTomm
Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:59 am
#92

Its more rediculous to think that I should have to learn some sort of skill to use a robot that is programmed to do what I tell it.


I don't have to calm him down so he doesn't eat me or shoot me or get pissed at my other droids and fight them over food like pets would and is why they require an entire class to control their wild tendencies.

DROIDS are made for everyone to use them. They should be made USER FRIENDLY so that they can be used by everyone. DEs wouldn't make them complicated so that only 1/100 of their clients could use them, thats stupid. These aren't heavy machinery that we need some liscence to operate.



TYTAN®
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LUCAN' ROKA®
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N0RAX
Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:19 am
#93

Hmm.. This is a very interesting proposal.

Let me summarize what I believe you're saying.

All pets start out as CL10 (or lower) that anyone can use.

The pet ITSELF will have its own profession tree(s) just like a player has, costing XP and the player's skill points to level up. Therefor the player would be giving up skill points for that specific droid to become better and it would take the same "time investment" to level up just like any normal profession.

Very interesting idea and probably the most original to date.

Theres of course a few things that would need to be ironed out. Like not making the pets tradable (without them losing their skill points, since the skill points invested are the original player's skill points).

I would really like to hear the Dev's opinions on the possibility of something like this being implementing.

-norax
CyberFett
Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:47 am
#94






Thunderheart wrote:





Virtanis wrote:




Thunderheart wrote:

How do you guys feel about something like this?





Thunderheart, Anything but a DH class.... please. Options are out there, ideas have been made and said. Please, please make every effort to avert a DH profession!




Im reading and gathering all of the ideas put forth and presenting them to the devs. Keep in mind that a bunch of the proposals put forth the idea of a "mini profession" or adding a droid handling tree to the DE profession which is basically what's on the table.


The important thing to remember is that any proposal has to include the following design criteria if they are going to be considered by the devs:



  • Any player can handle any pet or droid as long as its CL 10 or below.

  • Any pet/droid above level 10 has to have a significant skill point/experience point expenditure.


    • Reference CH's and the fact they have to spend points for an entire profession to get those benefits.

    • Factions pets (which could be some droids) will be added at a later date.

Keep proposing good ideas and Drashk and I will keep looking for things that the devs and community can agree on.






Re: Droid Invasion


I understand that the droids you are probosing may be powerful combat droids, or they may not be, we will not know til they are in game or we get some stats. But I do not understand why you are compating them to Creature Handler Pets. They are not pets, they are droids. Programable machines.


Creature Handler pets are living beings with personallities and manerisms that have to be dealt with by a trained Creature Handler (hense the Profession). Droids are machines that are programable (by a Droid Engineer) to act the way they program them, Obey who they program them to obey, ect......


To say that you need to spend SP or XP to be able to control a droid just doesn't make sese to me. If you want to make them profession specific fine (ie: Combat droid certs for combat professions, Surveying droid certs for crafting professions, ect....) and make the higher level droids only available to the Masters of those professions. But they should be the same droids available to all at certain levels (ie: Master Rifleman gets the same certs as a Master Carbineer), You can even give the Hybrid Classes specific droids (ie: Smuggler Droids, Bounty Hunter Droids, Combat Medic Droids). But not a seperate profession that is just absurd. This will bring about the same problems we had before the Creature Handler rebalancing last publish. All the bandwagon jumpers will flock to this profession and it will be R-o-b-o-P-o-k-e-m-o-n.


You also said something about Faction Pets. I am all for Making Faction pets dependent on Rank, but that should be all. I hope you are not thinking along the same lines and want to make us have to spend SP and XP to be able to control Faction Pets too. To me Faction Pets and Droids are much more similar than Droids and Creature Handler Pets.


Faction Pets - Soldiers who follow orders of thier superiors.


Droids - Machines who follow orders of who they are programed (by DE) to follow orders from.


CH Pets - Living beings with thier own personality and manerisms that need to be trained and controlled by someone who has the necessary skills and abilities to do so.


I also feel that if you want to really limit them and the amount that people can have and use they should take alot of resources and different types to make the higher the level ones. This will make them very expensive not only for the Droid Engineer to build but for the consumer to buy. Hopefully this will limit the amount players will be able to buy and Droid Engineers will be able to make.


I think Combat and other types of droids would be a great addition to the game, but if only a new profession (Droid Handler) or Droid Engineers are going to be the only ones able to use the high level ones I would rather not see them at all. I think it will just be a problem waiting to be NERFED.






General Vultan Blackstar

<DwV> Dark Warriors of Valor
Commanding Officer
Imperial Counter-Terrorist Unit
Imperial Headquarters (IHQ), Naboo
Ackis
Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:47 am
#95






Thunderheart wrote:




    • Reference CH's and the fact they have to spend points for an entire profession to get those benefits.





Please, please, please will the devs STOP treating Droids and creatures the same? There's logical sense why you need skill points to be a CH and the only argument that's been made as to why you'd need skill points to use a droid is because the CHs have to do it.


FYI


Creatures are NOT Droids


There is no reason why you should have to sepnd a lot of points to get decent combat droids. Now, I'm not saying super uberful droids... look at continuity. Except for a few select droids, the advantage that they had were their numbers, but a single droid combat droid should be a match for average level droids. If you remove the nerf about having creatures/pets out together, and possibly raise the level up to 15 for Droids that would be a good balance. I see that you could have a few lvl 15 roger roger droids out which would help, but not "unbalance" (ironically, the game is so unbalanced that a CM and Rifleman were able to take out 15-20 other players) the game.




Imperial Captain Ackis Losackego - Über f335h

Gruenpflanze
Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:50 am
#96

Someone wrote:


"No.. Theelite master combatboxes should get the certs for the best upgrades and the master non-combatboxes should get the best non-combat upgrade certs. I would point out that only someone who is skilled in combat should know how to proper use the droid "


I don´t get it.Why should Kung Fu know better about,how to use a droid in a battle than a droid engineer. Show me a TKA, Pikeman etc Skill where they learn something about technics or field strategies.


It´s ok if Master <Combat Profession> gets a certain ability how to use his droid (Rifelman Headshot by Droid, Pistoleer Healtshot) ButthoseMasters areallready gods of combat, they dont need to become automatically Über-God of Combat, so please don´t give them a DE-Level-Certification. If they want to use more than a +10 Droid, they have to invest in further Skillpoints.


Futhermore Ican´t find a passus in themanual or the bible that says,who is producing something should be prevented to use it and by no means should be allowed to join and enjoy combat.- Why shouldn´t DE be a Hybridprofession? I hate the Idea of being a Master DE, who is unable to use its own Droids.

Barfalomue
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:12 am
#97






Barb-Wire wrote:
not having a droid handler type profession would the same as removing CH and letting BE also tame and make their own pets. whats the difference. the DE cant have their cake and eat it too.

combat droids dont fit into this timeline in anything other than an entertainment medium.

i say if DE want to make combat droids AND control them then they shouldnt be able to make anything more powerful than a lesser bol. otherwise make a droid handler profession. it only makes sense. if a DE wants to control droids let em take up droid handler.





TO YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO THINKS THIS, MY ORIGINAL PROPOSAL WAS NOT INTENDING TO SAY THAT DE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE DROIDS ONLY. THAT WOULD BE POINTLESS AND I WOULD HAVE NO CUSTOMERS....PLEASE READ THIS THREAD THOROUGHLY BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS ABOUT US TRYING TO IMPLEMENT THIS IDEA.


THE IDEA HERE IS TO ALLOW EVERYONE TO CONTROL WHATEVER DROIDS THEY WANT...WITH THE IDEA THAT THEY HAVE TO USE THEM BEFORE THE DROID BECOMES POWERFUL. IF YOU DON'T USE THEM, THEY ARE NOT POWERFUL. THE MORE POWERFUL THE DROID, THE MORE COST TO UPKEEP, SO SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T FIGHT A LOT IS NOT GOING TO WANT TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON SOMETHING HE/SHE DOESN'T USE OFTEN.


THIS IDEA IS "NOT" SAYING WE WANT TO BE THE ONLY ONES TO CONTROL OUR DROIDS. THAT WOULD JUST BE IGNORANT ON OUR PART.


NOTE TO DEVS:


My original idea, combined with the idea of using a person's own xp to group the droid's skill tree (Yes, the droid would have its own skill tree, separate from the player) would also offer a great way to BALANCE the game.


I didn't think of this, and I think a lot of people looked over this fact as well. If you use your combat xp to level the droid's skill tree, you can only level it so far because by default, you can only gain so much xp, unless you are master. For example, it takes 300 xp to learn Pistols 1 on the Marksman tree. Well if you don't have Pistols 1, the highest xp gain you can get is 1000. This would only allow you to use 1000 xp on the droid at a time to train it. Well, if the droid has a skill requiring 2500 xp, you don't have enough to give it.... Therefore, if you are not a high level combatant, you can not have a high level droid, but if you want a high level droid, you have the option of becoming a high level combatant to be able to get enough xp to train it.


Has anyone thought of that before?


P.S. This idea of a "Retaining Bolt" is a poor idea. That would allow an uber character with tons of money to get a restraining bolt and then give the droid to a newbie who just joined his PvP guild. That would not be a good way to conduct business. That newbie should have to work just as hard as anyone else to get his droid to a high level. I think the way to overcome this. Have the droid stamped to an owner for its skills. If it is traded to any other character who then tries to use it in battle, including DE, the droid's memory is wiped. Now when traded, it retains its skills (this helps so that it can be traded to DE for training/upgrades). But, if anyone other than stamped master uses it, the skills are wiped and the new master is stamped as that droid's user, having to start from scratch. And, if the droid had upgraded weapon modules, the new user must go to aDE to swap out the modules.


This idea of Decay on droid's weapons is being overlooked I am affraid. I think it is a great idea, and should be strongly considered. As with mounted pets and bikes...now that everyone has one, no one needs to purchase anything anymore. Yes, you get the occasional newbie wanting one, but overall, there is no market whatsoever. Having a player-based maintenance system would alleviate this fact.


To be completely fair to CH and BE...perhaps incorporate a plan there where a Rancor and other pets must have a BE shot once per week or something to keep tame. If it fails to recieve that shot, it goes rabid on its owner...lol. (please dont expand on this on this thread, this is not what this thread is inteded for, or this board even.)


Thanks guys.



__________________________________________________________
~Aspi, Tempest, Master Droid Engineer-Master Artisan-Master Merchant-Master Pistoleer Retiree~Vendors-JaxBay Tent Mall
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blaisedinsd
Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:49 am
#98

I really like Barf's idea. I think the only part that might not fit Thunderhearts requirements is the skill point cost. I think if you made players spend their own skill points on there droid then it would fit. Example, you open up your droids skill tree and and he has enough combat XP to learn a new targeting system, You would need to


A) had to use your droid so it could get the combat XP


B) Have to spend a few of your skill points so your droid could learn the skill


C) Take your droid to the DE to get the new targeting system installed


I would prefer the droid had it's own skill points but this compromise might work. Using skill points would be the only way to get your droid over CL 10 and the more skill points you spend the stronger your droid would become.This ideawould still allow all players regardless of profession to own droids. I think the skill point cost should be jsut enough to suck up the few leftovers a Master BH has.


If the droid had it's own skill points I don't think it would be much of a balance issue, because like Barf said in the previous post- with this idea only a high level character could have a high level droid. This would mean instead of balancing all combat all you would have to do is add uber mobs at the highend if you even had to do anything. If a low level character was using his droid all the time it would take him twice as long to progress through his own skills because the droid would be sucking up his XP.


N0RAX
Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:04 am
#99

I think this is an excellent and original idea worthy of Developer of input.

Its about the only idea that doesnt unbalance the combat classes and does not include Droid Handlers.

The only problem I forsee is that the Devs can't simply copy/paste Creature Handler code to make it. It would require the most development work out of all the ideas. But honestly, if Combat Droids are worth doing at all it should be done rigtht the first time. All options must be weighed so that we don't all regret our choices 6 months from now.

-norax
N0RAX
Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:05 am
#100



Kriel wrote:


Thunderheart wrote:

This might be a possibility.

Assuming you want the removal of the DH profession idea and Droid Certifications is a big combat imbalance, adding a Droid Tree to the DE profession might be an option. It would probably work more like a "sprinkling" of Droid/Pet possibilities throughout the profession though. Otherwise you get a lopsided skill advancement.

How do you guys feel about something like this?






extremely bad idea, crafting profession and combat should not be soo easy to get skill point wise




Darn it Thunderheart, you've hijacked this thread and now half the posts are completely off the original topic!

-norax
satanis
Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:16 am
#101

The CL of droids aside, it would make sense the a DE can use / pull out a higher total value of droids.

Using them in combat .. it would make more sense for something like the "Squad Leader" class to gain additional generic (droid/creature/faction) pet slots. It would also make sense for their to be faction related droids and your faction rank to increase the number of droids you can simulatenously use.

Adding a "Droid handler" in addition to "creature handler" is the mirror scenario for bio-engineer and droid-engineer. It's the logical step in the game balance looking at existing mechanics. The general idea is poor. Unlike a creature handler which can gather resources without a BE, the DH would be absolutely dependant. It just doesnt immerse me in a SW universe, "i've been a droid handler the past 40 years, switched'em on every morning narry' a twitter out of them".



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Raleran0
Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:29 am
#102

I wasn't sure about this idea at first but the more I think about it the more I do. So much I'm not going to find an old proposal post I did a while ago.

Take what SinjenRandell spelled out and combine it with Blaisedinsd's proposal to use the players SP vs having the droid have SP and wow, what a terrific proposel!

Not only does it satisfy TH's requirements but it also makes each droid less disposible. Especially if you allow droids to be DBed(I suggest 3 DBs and it loses all knowledge learned.)

Excellent idea!
Ywi
Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:39 am
#103

Just wanted to let everyone on this thread know that I updated my thread:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=53933

Which according to another TH post is similar to one of the options we have on the table. I set it up to mimic the CL progression for a CH capping at 30 but being a mini-profession which has less point cost total. I still think this can get us a useful droideka type droid.

I'd love folks thoughts over on that thread, read it through for the latest comments.

Thanks,

Ywi Odiwovvi
Master Droid Engineer
Corbantis



------------------------------
"I will tell you this, Droids (and DE's) are going to be the MAIN feature for the January publish. We will be fixing alot of things and adding combat droids." - JustG - November 25, 2003
blaisedinsd
Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:40 am
#104

Hey barf, this thread has way too many off topic posts, mostly because of TH missing the point completely with his first post in the thread. Maybe a new thread should be started with a subject line that says something like "droids should have droid skill trees" or something.


Improvements on droids in this game must be something different than pets or else it is just a waste andif they are just combat pets with different graphics they should just go to CH's. Droids should be something better, something to add to the Starwars theme of the game.


Again, I like the idea of having combat droids only attack creatures. Faction pets should be changed to be able to attack all NPC's. And CH pets should be able to attack anything. The Empire would not allow non-military combat droids, and based on the movies dont't even use military combat droids. Maybe Rebels could slice their droids to attack NPC's but get a TEF anytime they do and maybe even a bounty.


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