Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Once again nothing but air it seems.
Drashk wrote:
As I pointed out earlier, anyone that wishes to call out more than droid can not be placed in the pure craftersgroup. Being able to call more than one droid can be used as a way to indirectly increase combat function. Having 2 or more droids out, regardless of their combat abilities, could be used as a means of drawing an aggro MOB away from a PC, which could be seen as an added bonus in combat.
Is that why Luke had both C3P0 and R2D2 out of his datapad all the time?
Silly me, I thought it was because they had different functions.
I also didn't realize Luke was a DE because it seems that only DE should be able to have more than one droid out at a time.
I would like to apologize now for the tone of my post. I am, like everyone else, getting very frustrated with the state of the game.
Kollos wrote:
Progman63 has demonstrated that this debate is not without purpose - it's rather evident that he now understands both sides of the issue and he's trying to come up with suggestions that will satisfy both sides. He's participating constructively.
I always understood both sides of the issue, but it has evolved and matured over time and more of the finer points have been uncovered and presented.
That's why I think these discussions have been worth while, even when they became quite heated in the past.
The pros and cons of various aspects have been presented and opinions have solidified.
I just wish there were more than just 2 camps presented by most discussions - crafter vs combat profession.
Because I think there's a middle ground where both groups could coexist without hurting each other.
Kollos wrote:
progman63 wrote:
If the devs give us DE-only combat droids - that you need to take DE skills to use - how can they do it so it's easy for people to use them without everyone just making their own???
How bout if only one branch of the DE tree had the use skills in it?
So people would need to take Novice Artisan (15),Artisan Engineering (14),Novice DE (6), anda DE Usage branch (14) wherever it might go.
People would actually be a little ahead in Skill Points if they choose to use combat droids rather than combat creatures since CH needs two branches in Scoutinstead of just one (15+14+14+6+???).
But the combat droids might not be quite as good as the higher level combat creatures they'd get if they took CH.
So you trade a little combat power for fewer Skill Points.
AND, we DE get to use the combat droids too.
Without totally ruining the entire profession.
Hmm... that's an interesting suggestion, Progman63. I'll have to ponder it a while.
Given what the Devs have recently done to CH, though, do you think they'd actually do something like this? They just spread CH usage all over the entire CH tree to prevent dabblers... do you think they'd do the opposite (specifically allow dabblers) in the DE tree?
I dunno. I like where you're headed with this, but given recent history I just can't see them doing it.
Yeah, this is an old proposal from the 'Official DE Plan' days.
And yeah, when they redid CH it looked like the ideas had been shot full of holes.
But in the interest of 'balance' I was hoping they might at least consider it.
Unless they really do plan on giving us really high CL combat droids.
I just wish Creature Taming and Creature Handling weren't bundled together.
Then there'd be a clear cut solution without messing with the DE profession - we'd have a Pet Handler profession that could include creatures, droids, faction pets, NPC henchmen and anything else they added to the game.
I'd just like to know what their original plan was, before release, to handle combat droids.
I'm relatively sure they planned to include more droids, other modules, and combat droids.
But the had to scale things back to get it out the door.
There was even talk of dropping DE all together before release.
But I'm glad they decided that wouldn't work.
Leadhead,
I think that most DE are concerned that, depending on how all these things are implemented, it will result in an influx of combat scum (no offense) that will trash the profession just to get what they want - better toys.
It's happened somewhat with holos, but fortunately most of them come and go in a week and spend all their time grinding instead of actually trying to build or sell anything.
A few people mentioned that they did craft ONE droid as a momento of their visit to our community. But then again, there goes one more sale.
I don't think that any ONE item that may be implemented would hurt the DE profession if done responsibly. But the combination of giving us really high CL combat droids, giving us an above average MDE combat droid, and placing the usage skills in the DE tree in certain ways, as well as other considerations could make the fact that we HAVE combat droids a moot point if everyone that wants combat droids just decides to make their own droids.
It will be the same as CH combat creatures. Even worse since there's no droid BE. At release CH could tame creatures and sell them to players. Now who can CH sell creatures to? Other CH who already tame their own creatures???
Due to the few number of members and the hardships we've gone through, the DE community has become quite close knit. And whether you agree with someone's DE philosophy, you can still respect them.
And since it must take a certain type of person to stick with a broken profession, and do it mainly just to have fun, it seems as you pointed out we can hold (somewhat 
) intelligent conversations.
Oh definatley,
I was responding to a couple of posts in the first two pages about the possibility of an MDE droid being a combat droid. I should have specified better what in the hell I was talkin about. I guess also it was to get some of us to recognize the fact that many times we get so wraped up in making sure that our ideas are strictly limited for balance, fit hand and glove with the starwars theme, and make sure that it will not infiringe on another profession. I think that this is the greatest thing about the DE community, you will never see this on any of the other profession forums. However, alot of the time we go way overboard with these things, and I am just trying to say that we need to lighten up a little and serve upsome of these great ideas to the devs, and let them figure out if they need to be tweaked...you never know, they may let us have something really cool even if it doesnt quite balance with the other stuff.
As far as a cert system goes, I would say that it should be generic that spans across most or all professions. Like say if you get the 3rd teir in the second column of pistoleer, you are certified to control x type of droid and at the same tier in another profession, that samecertwill be listed also.I definately think everyone should be able to use our combat droids.
As far as the power players go, the only reason we dont have them is because we pretty much suck worse than some other profession in any aspect of the game. However, as we get more inline with the others, they will come. They are always the largest percentage of any video game and they are the biggest draw so you gotta live with it and dont let them ruin your fun. It definately would suck if we became all powerful and we got the power players in mass droves, and I would have to agree that it would really ruinalot of the fun in thisprofession
Kollos wrote:
Drashk, you're mis-labeling the pure crafters.
The pure crafter group should be the people who don't want Droid Engineers to have any more combat ability than any of the other pure crafters (Armorsmith, Chef, etc). This is the inherent flaw in the groups you have created - you have missed the divisive issue within the Droid Engineer community and have split one faction in half.
Supporting multiple droids for Droid Engineers does not disqualify you from the pure crafter group as long as the extra droids are non-combat types.
Supporting a cert system for higher level combat droids does not disqualify you from the pure crafter group as long as Droid Engineers get no better certs than other pure crafters.
Wanting perks for being a Master Droid Engineer does not disqualify you from the pure crafter group as long as those perks are not combat perks.
See the difference?
You read that poll and got 31% pure crafters. I read it and got 63% pure crafters. Yes, we need some common definitions. But use the ones already in use, please - don't make up new definitions for terms we're already using.
Your groups are the "perk" group and the "no perks" group. Had the poll been labeled that way at the start I suspect the results would have been considerably different. Since the poll was labeled "Crafter" and "Combat" you must take the results as given. Roughly 63% of the respondants voted Crafter, roughly 28% voted Hybrid, and roughly 9% voted Combat. You don't have the right to move people from one group to another as you see fitin order to use your own definitions - that's manipulation of the vote.
Oh, and just so someone doesn't call me a hypocrit, this poll is just as useless as all of the other ones that have been held. I don't consider these results any more valid than any of the other polls that I have complained about. The sample size is basically irrelevant compared to the overall population, the participants are self-selected, and the subset that they are self-selected from is also self-selected. There's basically no hope that these polls reflect the opinion of all Droid Engineers simply because so few of us actually use the SWG Forums. There, happy?
Instead of polling for or listing 'groups' as much as that would simplify presenting information to the devs, perhaps we should just list each option or topic of debate and take a vote on a range of possible solutions.
This way we wouldn't be lumping any subcategories together or combining similar yet disimilar groups together trying to make sense of broader topics.
Pre-qualification of options and solutions is necessary by the community to include as many popular choices as possible so no items are left out.
Each specific topic should be posted as a separate thread so that issues are not mixed together and responses do not cross boundaries between different issues.
Each topic, option and solution needs adequate explanation so there is no ambiguity or confusion in the DE community OR when presented to the devs.
We don't want them implementing what they THOUGHT we wanted,when they didn't understand the answer.
Example
----------------------------------------
Droid usage skills:
- usage skills correspond to the comparable skills required by CH to use combat creatures
Usage skills currently include the options:
a) Stored pets
b) Called pets
c) Pet level
Solutions:
1) Noskills required
- everyone can use all combat droids without spending any skill points
2) Cert system placed in all professions
- certification for using combat droids is spread throughout all professions
3) Cert system placed in combat professions
- certification for using combat droids is spread through only combat professions
4) Usage skills centralized in DE skill tree
- skills are placed in low level skill boxes or just one branch
5) Usage skills spread throughout DE skill tree
- skills are spread throughout the skill tree similar to CH
There arethree options to consider (a, b, c) which couldeach be placed under any of the solutions (1-5) in any manner you wish.There are ONLY three options to place in total.
One solution '1) No skills' in your opinion could therefore have ALL three options 'a) Stored pets', 'b) Called pets', and 'c) Pet level' - 1) a,b,c
Or you may feel that each option belongs under different solutions - 1) a; 2) b; 3) c
But there are only three options to place.
What is your opinion?
How do you think each of these usage skills should be implemented?
Please ask if you have any questions.
----------------------------------------
This is a poll, not a discussion.
You could follow each separate poll up with a request for an explanation of why the person thinks these are the best solutions for each option. Probably in the same thread as a second part.
Example
----------------------------------------
Please explainwhy you thinkyour choicesare the best solutions to each option.
Please be specific. Don't state that "This will ruin the profession" or "This will flood the profession".
Explain how - "People will master DE because they want to use high level droids and then they will make junk droids and sell them dirt cheap".
----------------------------------------
Keep in mind that "Many of theexisting issues (bug fixes) are in production and will be in testing in January".
What other topics and solutions do we need to discuss about combat droids whether the ID thread has been posted yet or not?
Usage skills
- stored pets
- called pets
- pet level
Combat modules
- types of combat modules (attack, defense, etc)
- combat module attack types
- combat module defense types
- placement of combat modules in droid chassis
Combat droids
- new droid chassis
- inherent abilities
- added modules
Droid repair
- reapair kits used on other droids
- repair droids used on other droids
- vitality
- white bar wounds
- black bar damage
Battery usage
- stored or loaded batteries
- rate of usage
- battery meter
Balance
- vs PVE
- vs PVP
- vs CH
DE role in combat
- for
- against
- no opinion
- combat profession
- crafting profession
- hybrid profession
Faction combat
- faction pets
- combat creaturerole in faction combat NOT related to usage skills
- combat droidrole in faction combat NOT related to usage skills
What other topics haven't been mentioned pertaining to droids, DE and combat?
Leadhead,
Now that I read your original post in the light of day, I see that you were refering to MDE combat droids instead of DE-only combat droids.
I didn't recognize the name and assumed someone was just jumping in without finding out what the facts were. That happens alot.
My apologies.
There are plenty of people who have posted in the past for DE-only droids - which I take to mean the skills required to use combat droids are placed in the DE skill tree.
Every time someone says DE-only combat droids, everyone usually starts screaming "No onewill be able to use combat droids". But once you point out that they can just spend some points to get the skills, they say "Oh yeah, that's right". It happens to me almost every day in-game. That TERM has such negative conotations and can so easily be misinterpreted.
It's just that this is about the millionth thread started on the topic and lot of people are just plain sick and tired of debating the same thing over and over again.
The fact that we don't really have that much to talk about is most likely due to the fact that we've been given information and Plans and promises in the past. And people are more likely at this point to just wait and see rather than rehash everything all over again.
That and the fact that we really haven't been given much of anything new in this profession since release to warrant much discussion.
Much of anything that works that is 
Leadhead101 wrote:
Oh definatley,
I was responding to a couple of posts in the first two pages about the possibility of an MDE droid being a combat droid. I should have specified better what in the hell I was talkin about. I guess also it was to get some of us to recognize the fact that many times we get so wraped up in making sure that our ideas are strictly limited for balance, fit hand and glove with the starwars theme, and make sure that it will not infiringe on another profession. I think that this is the greatest thing about the DE community, you will never see this on any of the other profession forums. However, alot of the time we go way overboard with these things, and I am just trying to say that we need to lighten up a little and serve upsome of these great ideas to the devs, and let them figure out if they need to be tweaked...you never know, they may let us have something really cool even if it doesnt quite balance with the other stuff.
As far as a cert system goes, I would say that it should be generic that spans across most or all professions. Like say if you get the 3rd teir in the second column of pistoleer, you are certified to control x type of droid and at the same tier in another profession, that samecertwill be listed also.I definately think everyone should be able to use our combat droids.
As far as the power players go, the only reason we dont have them is because we pretty much suck worse than some other profession in any aspect of the game. However, as we get more inline with the others, they will come. They are always the largest percentage of any video game and they are the biggest draw so you gotta live with it and dont let them ruin your fun. It definately would suck if we became all powerful and we got the power players in mass droves, and I would have to agree that it would really ruinalot of the fun in thisprofession.