Droid Engineer Archive

---

Straker_Atrella wrote:

...we accept that fact that Droids in SWG are a lot like other craftable items.

I don't accept that, and think it is mistaken to do so. What other SWG items exactly can you name, personally program, and custom color? What other items in SWG continue to help you in your chosen profession as you play long-term? The benefits that droids bring are so numerous, and have been stated in so many other threads, that I won't go through it all here... but it all adds up to droids being SPECIAL in the game. Whether some DE'schoose to seeit or not. Many DE's see this and so do the DEVs obviously.

Let me ask this Yoda, what is the difference between your crates of Droids and a well stocked vendor? You go on and on about customer interaction and such, but even now with the current system, people buy droids from vendors with little to no interaction.

Some customers buy droids from vendors, some do not. I have been a custom droid crafter since the beginning and continue to do fine business that way. My vendor is stocked with only a minimal amount of 'standard' models for those who shop that way. The majority of my business still comes from customers who want a specific droid with specific modules to help them in their gameplay, so there is plenty of interaction. It all depends on how the DE plays, not neccessarily the rest of the players.

My fear about a too-quick decay system is that it would lead to even more players only bothering to buy crated droids from vendors, since they are forced to replace them so often. If the system goes to far, then they have no real choice. So a sort of decay is fine, as long as it takes into account the dangers of going too far with the system and ruining much of the fun of playing a DE, and gives the players who wish to keep their droids (and are willing to pay to keep them repaired/refurbished) the opportunity to do so. Including DEs.

---

---

Yod Amac - Head DE, Serenity, Naboo, Radiant Galaxy

Yod DROIDWORX - Get a Droid that Works for You!

---

Jenden wrote:
Yoda, I just don't agree with your logic on crates. The vast majority of players will realize that things change in 3 months, and they may not want to buy up ahead of time. The only reason people buy crates of weapons is because the weapons last about a week tops if they're doing a lot of combat. We're talking about months. Nothing changes about the fact that droids are special if they begin decaying, if anything it just makes it a bit more realistic, and could even increase the attachment people feel towards their droid. As it is now a lot of people never even think about their droid since its just something thats always there. If they need to start looking after it, they're more likely to think about it more.

---

---

Yod Amac - Head DE, Serenity, Naboo, Radiant Galaxy

Yod DROIDWORX - Get a Droid that Works for You!

---

YodaMac wrote:

---

Straker_Atrella wrote:

...we accept that fact that Droids in SWG are a lot like other craftable items.

I don't accept that, and think it is mistaken to do so. What other SWG items exactly can you name, personally program, and custom color? What other items in SWG continue to help you in your chosen profession as you play long-term? The benefits that droids bring are so numerous, and have been stated in so many other threads, that I won't go through it all here... but it all adds up to droids being SPECIAL in the game. Whether some DE'schoose to seeit or not. Many DE's see this and so do the DEVs obviously.

Guess that depends what you are talking about. I can color my armor whatever I want. The skill tapes I put into it are pretty close to "programming" from that point of view. My ship is another, I name it, I program in my commands, I can color it, I can fly, and even live in it. My starship that can Hyper across the galaxy is far more complex then a droid. Guess what, ships decay. Whats more complex, a droid or a living creature? BE's actually make living creatures, they look how they want, they get named, and they get "programmed." Eventually they die and need replaced as well.

This isn't the movies, there are so many glaring differences. How many times did you see Han, Chiewie, Luke or Vader clone? I never saw it once. Guess what, they were heros, they were different from the run of the mill people you saw getting killed left and right. Yet people keep trying to relate the Droids in the game to the Droids in the movie as well. They are not, they were "Heros" as well. Certainly not your run of the mill droids.

The scrap heaps and Jawa Sandcrawlers are full of fine examples of what happens to run of them ill droids like the ones we use.

Let me ask this Yoda, what is the difference between your crates of Droids and a well stocked vendor? You go on and on about customer interaction and such, but even now with the current system, people buy droids from vendors with little to no interaction.

Some customers buy droids from vendors, some do not. I have been a custom droid crafter since the beginning and continue to do fine business that way. My vendor is stocked with only a minimal amount of 'standard' models for those who shop that way. The majority of my business still comes from customers who want a specific droid with specific modules to help them in their gameplay, so there is plenty of interaction. It all depends on how the DE plays, not neccessarily the rest of the players.

So what makes you think if decay is added this will change? I 100% agree it depends on the customer. Some will still want special orders, others will still buy from vendors, and those really heavy users "may" buy crates. There is no logic to thinking that the customers actually personalities are going to change, simply because we added decay.

My fear about a too-quick decay system is that it would lead to even more players only bothering to buy crated droids from vendors, since they are forced to replace them so often. If the system goes to far, then they have no real choice. So a sort of decay is fine, as long as it takes into account the dangers of going too far with the system and ruining much of the fun of playing a DE, and gives the players who wish to keep their droids (and are willing to pay to keep them repaired/refurbished) the opportunity to do so. Including DEs.

I still really don't follow how you think a 3 month replacement for normal people as quick. The one month replacement is only for the fastest users. The guy who's droid is out for 8 hours every day. You keep acting like people are proposing weekly replacement, nobody wants that.

I think the anti-decay kit is the perfect way to allow people to preserve their droids.

---

---

Message Edited by Straker_Atrella on 02-21-2005 11:41 PM

---

YodaMac wrote:

---

Jenden wrote:
Yoda, I just don't agree with your logic on crates. The vast majority of players will realize that things change in 3 months, and they may not want to buy up ahead of time. The only reason people buy crates of weapons is because the weapons last about a week tops if they're doing a lot of combat. We're talking about months. Nothing changes about the fact that droids are special if they begin decaying, if anything it just makes it a bit more realistic, and could even increase the attachment people feel towards their droid. As it is now a lot of people never even think about their droid since its just something thats always there. If they need to start looking after it, they're more likely to think about it more.

---

I agree with what you're saying here, as long as we are talking about months of actual use-time, and if players who are attached to their droids can pay to keep them chugging along (like in your proposal). As I said, my fear for the fun of the profession centers around taking "decay" to it's extreme. That's all I'm saying.

---

A huge reason that people buy crates of weapons especially is because they want to get good slices. You may buy 25 pistols and only get 3 that aregreat.This hardly translates to anything close to droids. When you buy a droid, you know exactly what you are getting.

Lets clarify this months thing. Yoda, you are saying "Months of actual use-time," so if I am reading that right, you mean 2160 HOURS of actual use? For 3 months. Meaning if somebody used their droid for 4 hours a day, it lasted 540 days? What is the point of even having decay then?

I don't think that is what "many" of us are talking about. I am thinking about 400 hours of use myself. Here is how that would break down.

• 24 hours use a day, (such as a buffbot) = 16 days


• 12 hours use a day, = 33 days (1 month)


• 6 hours a day = 66 days (2 months)


• 3 hours a day = 133.3 (4 months)


• 1.5 hours a day = (8 months)


• Just pulling it out to get stuff out of a storage droid or craft a little a day = a year

Death and low power would makehtis go even faster.

Honestly, this is probably still to slow. But it is fair. Yes 16 days at the high end seems really really fast, but that droid is under constant use. This would affect a very smallpercentage of the population. Yes this person may buy crated droids. How many people on a server use their droid 24 hours a day? 10 maybe?

Then on the other end, some droids would still actually live forever. My storage droids see maybe 15 minutes a day if that. This is the part that actually makes it seem a little slow.

The best solution would probably be to have them take a vit hit when they are pulled out, a small one of course though.

I still think the anti-decay kit is the perfect way for people to preserve a droid if they want.

Message Edited by Epak on 02-22-2005 02:50 PM

---

Gron_DM wrote:

• 24 hours use a day, (such as a buffbot) = 12 days


• 12 hours use a day, =18 days


• 6hours a day =30 days


• 3 hours a day =45days


• 1.5 hours a day =60 days(2months)


• 1.5 hour every other day = 3 months (casual players fall more into this window)


• Just pulling it out to get stuff out of a storage droid or craft a little a day = 6 months (aka max time droid functions)

This would be more to the scale i think is reasonable, but opinions will vary. Thanks for putting up some numbers i think its important we get down to the nitty gritty and get a window on these specifics.

---

Honestly I like your numbers better Gron. If somebody is using a droid for 6 hours every single day, it must be doing a lot for them. Making money, or helping somehow. Yours are based around 200 hours max if you used mine. That would be 200 with repairs from kits.

There is still the problem of the other 3 or 4 droids that people only use like 10 minutes every few days.

---

Jenden wrote:
Ok, here's the first version of a droid decay proposal that will hopefully make everyone happy. Please share your comments/suggestions and lets see if we can get something that everyone is happy with. Ideas for this proposal have been drawn from the various previous proposals on these boards, as well as my own ideas.

What is the goal of decay?
Ideally, decay will accomplish the following goals.

Improve the droid market on all servers for all play styles

Bring droid customers back to the DE

Not be a reason for people to not buy droids

How will decay be measured?
In order for this proposal to be successful, a new integrity rating would need to be added to all droid frame's, chassis, and final deed's. Some droids will have more integrity than others (for example, Binary Load Lifters should last longer than R3's). I believe it would be better if the integrity of droids was not purely done on a higher-level = higher-integrity basis. Something like a MSE, which has very little moving/exposed parts should have a bit more integrity than something like a protocol droid which is a bit more delicate. Thats just something I thought might be interesting though, nothing vital to the plan. Not listing any integrity numbers here, but rough estimates as to time droids last will be included later


When should droids decay?
Ideally, there should be a number of factors that contribute to the gradual decay of droids. A general decay of 1 integrity point every x minutes the droid is out should be enough to ensure that every droid will eventually start to have some wear and tear. The decay on destruction should be kept as a means for speeding up the decay of combat droids (which should decay the fastest of all droids). Additionally, any time an astromech is in a ship that is destroyed, the droid should take some integrity loss.


What effect does decay have on the droid?
Decay should have a number of effects on the droid that progressively get worse as the droid gets further into a state of disrepair. Here is a list of possible ideas:

Decreased droid movement

Droid randomly "powers down" (stops working until stored/called)

One random stat (function) on the droid stops working (until stored/called again)

Batteries drain faster

Cosmetic effects (sparks, smoke, etc)

Again, not all of those need to be implemented, they're just some ideas.


What happens when the droid's integrity reaches 0?
Once a droid's integrity reaches 0, it is considered "disabled". Disabled droids may be called from the datapad, but cannot move. All modules in a disabled droid stop functioning (though items and data can still be removed from storage) and astromechs will not function in ships.


How can a droid be repaired/maintained?
A few new parts would need to be added to the profession for this part. First off, some kind of droid reconstruction kit would need to be implemented. This kit would be similar to BE vitality packs in that anyone can use them and they repair a droid's integrity (though they reduce the max integrity for the droid).
Possibility for full repairs:

Droid refurbishment kits: Expensive kits that can completely repair a droid's vitality

Anti-Decay Kits: Allow users to keep one droid from decaying

Droid Refurbishment Center: Takes a droid deed and a disabled droid and coppies name/commands/color over

Droid Refurbishment Center: Can change modules and reduce decay

Droid Deconstruction: Can deconstruct a disabled droid into the adv. chassis version

How long should a droid last?
This is largely up for debate, but my feeling on it is the average life span for a droid without any kind of repairs is 1 month (at this point the droid would still be useable, but all of the side effects from the low maintenance would make it very unreliable). If a user cares enough about his droid to keep up on the maintenance, I see a droid lasting 3-4 months. If they really like the droid and want to keep him around, the droid can last indefinately via the refurbishment kits.


Conclusing
Ok, lets look at our objectives again.

Improve the droid market on all servers for all play styles

By instituting this decay there will be an increase in droid sales to people who don't mind just replacing their droid and don't want to deal with keeping up with maintenance. There would be an increase in consumeable sales to the people interested in making their droid last as long as possible. There would also be a new market for customers that want their old droid refurbished. I think this should satisfy all play styles (not only for customers, but also for DE's).

Bring customers back to DE's

Customers will return to the DE in order to either get repair kits, have their droid refurbished, or buy a new droid. This should serve to be a good increase in traffic to DE shops (or emails/tells to backpack DE's)

Not be a reason for people to not buy droids

The decay should be slow enough that people don't have a problem replacing their droids, and people that have grown attached to their droids can have them refurbished.




Ok, questions, comments, concerns, ideas, thoughts... lets hear em.

Message Edited by Jenden on 02-17-2005 07:08 PM

Message Edited by Jenden on 02-18-2005 11:07 AM

Message Edited by Jenden on 02-19-2005 01:55 PM

---

---

jefmes wrote:

---

Jonthalas wrote:

While we are on new theories, let me add in some "recycled" ideas from current in-game metrics that might go towards the solution of decay and repeat business:

Droids are like Ships

• DEs should be able to swap in/out modules within droids. If Jedi can do it with lightsabers, why can't DEs? Naturally, only DEs could change out modules, and you should only be able to change out modules you can create (i.e., a novice DE shouldn't be able to mess with a Level 6 Med Module). Obviously, there are some game metrics with that rule, but not written in silicon at this point. Still could offer the ability to switch out modules to the end-gamer in similiar fashion to the ship station. Why couldn't there be a DE station and model droid interfaces (no relation to ship droid interfaces) in the same process as ships?

Droids are like Lightsabers

• Modules should have uses or condition on them, just like crystals. Using the uses model, each time a modules function is activated (combat, med healing, harvesting, etc) a use count is depleted.


• Modules could have base uses wiht Quality experimentation (something to experiment with besides Effectiveness) could be used to generate higher uses within the specific module. (Give us 12 pt DEs something to do).

Droids are like Buildings

• Allow Master DEs to place Droid Repair Centers (in similiar fashion to Doctors, Entertainers, Musicians, etc) that allow players to take droids for the proverbial "oil bath" (more on that below)

Droids are like Pets

• If a module use count reaches 0, the droids overallvitality is reduced. (In the same model a pets' vitality is reduced when it dies and auto-stores instead of being revived).


• DroidRepair Kitscould then be used to return vitality to the droid (In the same model a pets' vitality packs)


• Could also tie into Repair Kit logic (similiar to clothing, weapon, armor) that if the player attempts a repair on the vitality of the droid, there is a chance of damaging it or disabling it altogether

Droids are like Vehicles

• Disabled droids could be restored at the Droid Repair Center (in game terms - similiar to the parking garage logic) where, for a fee a player could restore the droid chassis.

Droids are like Players

• Another possible method of repairing droid vitality damagewould be to let the droid heal naturally by allowing the player to put the droid into a locker or compartment at the Droid Repair Center that only the player can open (logically - transferring the droid from the datapad of the player to the datapad of the building) and have the droid stay for repairs while the player continues to play. The player could be emailed when the droid is done "cooking" and vitality is restored.

Droids in Summary

These models of decay and economics could allow for several game economics to change in the following manner:

• Allow DEs to offer more module and chasissales, thereby increasing shop business flow and repeat customers


• Give DEs more control over the droids they make in creation and after-market management.


• Give DEs more experimentation power along the lines of other classes (doctors, weaponsmiths, etc)


• Use in-game processes that players are used to in other areas and try to help reduce much of the "how does this work" questioning that plagues our profession.

Finally, by trying to incorporate in-game mechanisms that are already used (and programmed), it might (emphasize - MIGHT) help the developers revamp our profession quicker and sooner because they do not have to re-invent the wheel, per se.

Overall, I like the ideas that have been presented and think we are well on the track to a better profession.

Onward and upwards - and stay tuned true-believers.....the best is yet to come.

Respectively,

---

Some ideas here very similar to things that have been talked about, but this is a GREAT brief write-up on combining them in a simple list. I would go 100% for everything in this post. Nice job!

---

Great Post! My idea is

1. Put a limit on how many players must be in a player city to have a Droid Repair Center.
2. Set a fee that you pay like maintance on your house.

and more when i can brain storm them up