Droid Engineer Archive

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Kollos wrote:

I am both happy and sad to hear this.

I'm happy because I had hoped this would be the answer. I do not believe that the hybrid proposal was balanced or that it was our best option. However, it had a tremendous amount of support from the player base so I was worried that the Devs would cave in and "do the wrong thing." The fact that the Devs also see that the hybrid proposal wasn't the right answer is a strong positive for me. It gives me hope that there may still be a chance for us in the long run. (Slim and shrinking, but a chance nevertheless.)

I am sad to hear this news because so many people supported it and believed in it. I do honestly feel bad for all of those people, especially the people who put so much work into it. Sodan did a very good job of coordinating and guiding the effort. His enthusiasm and positivity (is that even a word?) were infectious and really focused the majority of Droid Engineers toward a common goal.

Doughbacca, we need guidance from the Devs. We have proven over and over that we have the enthusiasm, energy, and creativity to produce ideas. However, we cannot continue to produce ideas in a vaccuum. We need better guidelines than "no new checkers" from the Devs. It's a neato catch phrase, but it means vastly different things to different people. We need to know what constitutes an invalid checker and what constitutes a valid improvement to our profession.

Furthermore, we need to know what is allowed as far as utility is concerned. We already have droids that enhance skills - medical modules- yet we're being told that droids are notallowed to enhance skills. We already have droids that expand upon existing abilities - item storage and data storage - yet we're being told that droids aren't allowed to expand upon existing abilities. We have given the Devs pages upon pages of solid, workable utility module ideas, yet we have received virtually no feedback on them. If the ideas aren't workable, we need to know why so that we can avoid making similar mistakes with other ideas. "Technological limitations" is not a good reason - far too many of us are programmers (some are even game programmers) and can smell that load of bantha poodoo coming from miles away.

I'm still playing, but only because WoW isn't out yet. SOE still has a chance to do the right thing, but they're running out of time.

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After having read your posts and reading why the Dev's rejected the hybrid idea, I do agree with you about the balance issue, although not as strongly.

However, I think that people here need to READ WHAT IS BEING SAID! They see unbalanced and think of unbalanced in the sense of skill points, and requirements, and things that we spent so much time trying to balance. What they seem to be missing is it wasn't that aspect of balance that wasn't balance, it is the combat vs. crafting that is not balanced.

Again one more time. It seems that the DEV's are saying that
COMBAT ABILITY and CRAFTING ABILITY are not balanced in the hybrid proposal.

This makes some sense. There is alot of potential combat ability there, as well as elite crafting ability. Yes, I know that smugglers can craft spice as well. But from what I've seen many of them don't want to. Haul the spice, move the spice, "smuggle" the spice, yes they want to do lots of that, but make it? No. So I don't think smuggler is a good response as to a hybrid profession that works. I think we should focus on crafing ideas.

Crafting ideas, yes. they are wonderfull and people keep saying that they don't know how to balance them with what the dev's want. THIS IS INCORRECT!

We have enough information just read what Runesabre has said about it.

If I remember correctly we should be coming up with ideas that DO NOT SIMULATE CURRENT SKILLS IN ANY WAY, but instead IDEAS THAT ADD TO PROFESSIONS WITHOUT MAKING THEM REDUNDANT!

110% med do not simulate a doctor, the doc still has to be there to do the healing.

10 item storage isn't much, and so things like packs that hold 50 are much more usefull for large storage.

Mobile crafting stations are great, but while they are mobile they are not as good as private crafting stations in a house.

All of this is not making current skills redundant!

Sorry for all the caps, I'm getting tired of depressed people not reading what is being said and thinking about it before posting. So I'm trying to get them to think.

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Tarne_Monter wrote:

110% med do not simulate a doctor, the doc still has to be there to do the healing.

10 item storage isn't much, and so things like packs that hold 50 are much more usefull for large storage.

Mobile crafting stations are great, but while they are mobile they are not as good as private crafting stations in a house.

All of this is not making current skills redundant!

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My point in bringing up medical modules is that the devs have shot down similar modules (110% slicing modules, for example) by saying that droids aren't allowed to enhance player abilities. Which is blatantly false because that's exactly what a medical module does.

Storage modules and data modules counter similar Dev claims. We provide suggestions, but they tell us things that simply aren't true in their responses that shoot down our suggestions.

BTW, Droid Crafting Stations are easily as good as Architect created in-home crafting stations. Droid stations don't have a functionality rating, and as near as we can tell that means they function as if they were perfect.

But more to the point of all this, how does a charged Surveying Droid that functions in a manner similar to a Bounty Hunter's Seeker Droid in any way make someone with Survey IV obsolete? The proposals put forth have all made sure that the Surveying Droid is less efficient than someone who actually has the skill and that it is also reasonably expensive. It's just an enhancement that would make a "Master Miner's" job a little biteasier.

Similarly, how does a Factory Droid that works slowly and is limited in output hopper size to a maximum of 10 in any way make an Architect-produced factory obsolete? I want a factory droid so that I can build a special-order droid that requires an Advanced Brain on they fly while sitting outside the spaceport in Coronet. It would never in a million years replace my fleet of factories that do the bulk of my production, but I can't count the number of times that I've lost a sale because I didn't have the correct parts on hand (when those parts are required to be factory made).

Besides, how is an exploding module not like a grenade? How can the Devs tell us not to provide suggestions that duplicate abilities currently in the game when the stuff they're creating for us does exactly that?

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TheRealTK421 wrote:

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JavelinCatcher wrote:

ok....now that I'm done swearing....

I seriously thought we had a good plan put forward.

Yup...me too. That's why I pushed so hard to see if it was a doable thing.

This is how I read this announcement: "Sorry guys, we're still doing Droid Commander."


Well...rethink it as: "Sorry guys, the Hybrid DE idea (while great) simply won't balance as well as a new profession and/or a well-designed faction combat droids will."

Alright, well....back to the drawing board. *scratch* *scratch**scratch* *scratch*

Indeed.

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/bow

Respectfully,

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Tk and all fellow DE's here is my take... I have been following the DE forums since the Day i picked up novice DE 6 months ago...

DEVS: "We want to add another profession for Droid Handler"

DE's: "We don't need another whole profession.. Fix our profession first (like you did the Chef profession) Then lets work on a plan together"

DEV's "Ok we didn't think this out, we have other priorities, you are nerf'd, pushed back, And no longer get our promised "FOCUS"... Here are a few bones to shut you up... but please keep feeding us ideas"

DE's "Ok utility droids, profession fix, and here is a SOLID WORKABLE (model idea, change as necessary) Hybrid proposal..."

DEV's "NO... Space first... We need to add an ENTIRE bug ridden expansion to occupy our time so we can ignore you again, or throw meaningless content at you to quite you down... PLUS "We are not working balance anymore but your proposal is unbalanced we cannot balance it so... NO, we are going the original route of a cheap clone of our already existing Creature handler profession..."

DE's "Thank you sir may I have another" "oh yeah, what about DE bugges that have been in game since we started, and the new bugs that were added with publish 7????"

DEV's : Insert cricket noises and awkward silence here.......

WE ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS... HOW ABOUT FIXING OUR PROFESSION?????????????????

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ReptileSpit wrote:

I'm guessing it will beta this summer.

I'd be shocked if it's out before November.

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I wouldn't be too shocked if its out before November. This game was put out in, and is still in beta. Whats to stop them from bringing out the Space Expansion in beta form as well?

You know, this is really a shame. Apparently few persons here haven't had any experiance in middle management. The nature to bounce back and forth as ideas are presented, and new facts are uncovered is human nature. Bottom line is we all know that many of these problems are caused by a divided player base. The people that run around screaming nerf, are countered by the ones saying leave our profession alone. The ones that are screaming gimp, are balanced by the ones who have found ways around the flaws.

If I could balance power in the world as it is, there would likely be world peace. While I don't always agree with the direction and manner of implimentation that is taken in the game, look around at these forums. Everywhere, someone is proclaming their life has been destroyed and they are marching to the capital with orders to take reign on all that is SWG. It doesn't work like that.

Major fault: The player base has no idea what the dev's intended, or intend to do. The same thing happened with the Pike profession, I joined wholeheartedly in the bashing, but the problem was no idea on a direction. Free floating so to speak. This is the position that needs to be avoided. Do I enjoy the concept that the character I just spent so much on to get to MDE is not going to be nearly as usefull as I once thought. No, but hey atleast the market will have less competition. J/K *ducks the stones tossed in my direction*

You all fail to understand that there is a system that SoE has in place which researches, prioritizes, delegates, and develops. While their may be short falls to the manner in which the system works...Any system of such a nature has it's faults. It is a worldwide problem, not an SoE problem. Quite possible, sorry but no other way to say it, quite possible that A) You are taking the problems of the world and identifying the same and directing your anger to the games developers, or B)You have never taken the time to realize this outside of the game. Either way, TK is not to blame. I have monitored quite a bit on other professions and imo, present and most recent DE corrispondents have filled their roles. You can't expect TK to push a devolper out of his chair and start coding the game himself? Nor can you belive you can do a better, more balanced, less bugged version. If you could, you would be doing it right now, and would be receiving the same amount of flack from your player base that you are dishing out right now.

Something has to give. Nothing is without limit. Perhaps, you are bored. Perhaps not, either way there is a new focus. A new timeframe. $15 bucks a month is not enough to get you the world. I pay $45 bucks a month for a 150 channels that have nothing good on half the time. That imo is more money, thus I either cancel my cable subscription, or flame the cable company?

/shrug

1-star away, but some of the people responding to this thread imo have it wrong. Some time to cool off might be required, either that, or change your profession.

Message Edited by Envoy3113 on 04-05-2004 09:48 AM

I didn't set up the analogy right. What I see that is frustrating is the attacks on TK, flaming the cable company would do nothing as the networks control the programming. The networks would do nothing becuse the 'General Public' still...gives them the ratings. It's misdirected, even directed in the right place, it is not constructive. This game far superceeds anything I have seen to date that is live. It takes more work to keep it running, even with the bugs, than most people imagine. Pushing the DE cl+10 issue back, gives resolute to same people flaming here, who have all said at one point in time "How bout you fix what is bugged NOW"

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TheRealTK421 wrote:

2) Faction pets

This is one of the other options that is still on the table as a possibility. The details on this are really thin but with the GCW revamp coming, it might well be a good interim step to take on the way to DC. I don't know if doing both of these is in the cards but one could be a good way to lead into the other and build up over time.

If you want to consider this option, be aware that it has had less focus from the Dev end and they still consider DC as being the primary method of adding CL10+ droids (in a way that can be balanced...and that is key). If we can come up with a faction pet proposal for adding them so that it balances, they will look at it as an option. However, the primary method of focus right now seems to be a new profession.

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Pardon the intrustion, I am not a DE but have always liked the concept (not the shocking reality you folk have to deal with) and it was a choice between this or weaponsmithing when I began.

I always thought about the fact the imbalance of adding CL10+ combat droids brings without some sort of certification method. I think an idea to perhaps kick off experimenting with combat droids and testing how they'd fit in the game would be to seperate, at first, use of combat droids from a player to a static point.

Pertaining to your point about faction perks - as a starting point, how would it sound to have a faction perk called "Droid Garrison", with the idea being a static 'base' that is placed to defend a certain area. This would be similar in idea to minefields, but instead of being stocked with mines, they are stocked with 'garrison droids' crafted and sold by DE's. When an overt member of the opposing faction comes close, the garrison activates and deploys it's droid troops to attack the hostiles.

I thought that perhaps this would give an opportunity to put in place, for testing and experimentation, the fundamentals in crafting combat droids and their interaction with the game without causing them to overbalance any given profession. A static defense isn't likely to through game balance askew. It would add some cool content factor to the GCW and give the DE's at least some form of limited but renewable market.

I know it certainly isn't the be all end all of your profession, but I thought it might be something to throw out there as a starter point.

Cheers,

Ker'shakk

first of all, just read the first post - so dont flame me if i say something that pass posts before mine

seems like there would be come the time to think about how could a droid commander look like

Tree 1 and Tree 2 are clear

Tree 1 (?) (droid control/usage xp - u get droid usage xp for every minute u have it out there starting at 10xp/min and shrinking with every minute to zero in time where the droids are doing nothing and just staying around this includes everything combat, medical modul usement, crafting station usement, etc - 1k xp)
Droid Level Bonus (max level at master - remember the ideas at soddans thread about BH/DE (ok now DC) coop

1. +5 droid level (7,5k xp)
2. +5 droid level (15k xp)
3. +5 droid level (30k xp)
4. +5 droid level (60k xp)

Tree 2 (Droid Control?) (sameway like tree 1 in every way)
Max Number of Droids
i think this sounds good ->
1. +2 Droids at Datapad
2. nothin
3. +3 Droids at Datapad
4. +1 non combat droid

Tree 3 (Droid Programming?) (droid combat xp - numbers would be wasted atm cause thats just a thought about a new xp type - droid combat xp just would be the combat xp an droid makes for ya - so for this have to be thought about how could this designed for a dc prof.)
thinking here about some tactical things, we all said that droids to pets stand link marksman to brawler - so droids are able to get deeper at tactics then pets (therefore they dont have special attacks - seems logical and balanced)

1. + new combat formation (? droid combat xp)
2. empty (? droid combat xp)
3. empty (? droid combat xp)
4. empty (? droid combat xp)

Tree 4 (Droid Re-Engineering?) (1k re-eng.xp - should work like the image designer xp)
something like an slicing/customization tree
give the droid commander abillity to make a bit of redesign to the droid he bought
like changing the type of weapon, make tuning at the droid (like switching abillities from max tempo to max damage, to give the commander the abillitie to tune hes droid in that way he have need of - the one wants an combat droid with medium armor (tuning at the shieldgenerators of an droidica f.e.) and medium damage (tuning at the power cells of the weapons) another guy want that hes droid is quick so he puts all hes tuning on that - so just like the tuning of a car in many categorys but just within the mechanics let it do from the engineer
also this dont just allow the DC to tune his own droid also he can tune droids for others

1. +2 re-eng (5k re-eng.xp)
2. +2 re-eng (10k re-eng.xp)
3. +2 re-eng (20k re-eng.xp)
4. +2 re-eng (40k re-eng.xp)

means there are "10" points that can be migrate on the droid for different abillites (could be best compared with the players stat migration)

Master DC (620 app xp)
+new formation
+5 droid level
+1 re-eng.

prerequisite for Novice DC (i think that sounds fair and logical)/(20k of combat xp)
Ranged Support 4 (how should u control a cl10+ combat droid if u dont have the clue about tactics)
Engineering 4 (like an sportcar pilot pro. there should be a base understatement of techniques and how they work)
there for u get
+1 droid re-eng.

TK,

So if the ONLY way we are getting CL10+ droids is the DC, can we start inquiring about the viability of the 2-tree mini-profession proposals.

If it is going to take months to get CL10+ droid into place (so devs have time to do it right), and if we have to have a separate profession, I personally believe the 2-tree mini-profession proposals to be the best. They get medium power droids in the hands of more people, instead of high power droids in the hands of a handful (read: better market for us).

Do you think it would be appropriate for me to re-raise my mini profession ideas for discussion (not for adoption, but as a stepping stone for further discussion and another proposal we can all get behind...)?

[quote]What I see that is frustrating is the attacks on TK, flaming the cable company would do nothing as the networks control the programming. [/quote]

Other than a few misguided souls I dont see attacks on TK as the norm. Also I dont see the same proposal being pushed up. All I see is questions for answers that never come. Yes, the attacks on TK are wrong, he is only a messenger SOE put there to take the brunt of the scorn. Because they knew it was coming. It is the reason why in my first post to this thread I said "...they didnt even have the balls to say it, what can I say...." parapharsing a little.

As far as the Cable Company, you are still wrong, the cable company can and will add/remove channels based on viewers complaints/accolades. SOE IS the cable company, Lucas Arts is the Network .

My point is while SOE has a huge game, it is a fact, they have not really implemented a "StarWarsy" feel to the game. Freaking dungeons my arse, how about crashed spaceships to explore? For the longest Biopets dominated the landscape. Only after an outcry of Star Wars fans did the situation change. Until there is a massive outcry for better utilization of droids, things wont change IMO.

Not only that but you guys (and me, as I am a customer of SOE/SWG) got told a bold face lie. "Droid Invasion" HELL they still fly it on their front page as a big dodah.

Oh well, I am done, heck it is not even my profession. Apologies if I am out of place.

Deleted, double post.

Message Edited by RotorofCorRng on 04-05-2004 06:06 PM

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RotorofCorRng wrote:
Not only that but you guys (and me, as I am a customer of SOE/SWG) got told a bold face lie. "Droid Invasion" HELL they still fly it on their front page as a big dodah.

Oh well, I am done, heck it is not even my profession. Apologies if I am out of place.

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It is not exactly a lie about the droid invasion. The thing SOE did was to give us (Everyone playing SWG) a misguided patch name. The droid invasion was in part the following.

Part combat modules, repair modules and other small stuff for Droid Engineers.

And part New skins and droids for the new dungeons and the 'random' attacks by roaming NPC droids.

What SOE should have done was to offer more information in their patch notes. They should have said "This Droid Invasion in build 7 is part one of two. We are adding combat modules as well as repair module for the droid engineers to craft to their existing chassis but we are also adding new droids to be introduced in the new dungeons and the random attacks"

Also if you read the HOC chat, a question was asked about when new droids would be added to the game. SOE replied. "We are currently working on 2 new droid chassis that we are adding in a few weeks time." As this was a truthful answer to the question, SOE should have said "There new chassis are for the new corvette dungeon" Also the question asked about new droids being added should have included. "For the DE's to make and sell"

SOE read the question as it was written. They didnt care that the person asking the question was reffering to DE craftable droids, and I believe that SOE was pleased that the question wasn't worded more accurate.

Now. Do I defend SOE for this? Hell no. I am as upset at most others are, but I have learned that to get a straight answer (Or atleast get a greater chance of one) the question must be asked in such a way that it can't be mis-interpreted.

I know I paraphrased a bit in what was being said in the HOC chat, but I believe I got the aspect of the question and the answer.

I am also aware that my signature contains the line "Droid Invasion? More like Droid Evasion" and even if some might think it goes against what I mentioned in this post, I still believe it to ring thrue as SOE didn't offer us any real explanation as for what they planned for the droid invasion.