Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Please explain to me how Droid Handler is a bad thing.
DH...
Where the hell did this come from. The whole concept of the creature handler profession, in my opinion, is ruining SWG. It is the most unbalanced class in the entire game. So for all of you who are complaining about DEs wanting to become an Uber Combat Class, complain about the CH profession. That would be more constructive. I didn't get SWG to play EQ in space. I got it; because, it was suppose to Star Wars. There were suppose to be droids that were useful. Sofix CH (make it less powerful)and the "droid" problem should be alot easier to correct.
But what do I know? I've been playing role-playing games for 15 years now. "Game balance" does not always entail making classes identical. It involves balancing classes so that they complement each other. If a class is inherently more powerful, then tighter restrictions are imposed on that class. If a class is useless and completely underpowered, then you reworked it or got rid of it.
Instead of going in and potentially making two uber professions, do a rework of both the classes. For example, don't let rancors run freely through the streets. Most people don't let lions or tigers run through downtown San Diego. If people started doing it; you can bet that a city ordinance would be passed prohibiting it. Second, why are you allowing a pet to resurrect? Is it because people don't want to lose there pets? Then don't fight with it. If the pet gets killed, make the CH go out and get a new pet. I know that there is a limit on what a CH can call in regards to pets. Go further with it, make a limitation on the number of creature levels that a CH can have period. With a limitation on the number of creature or creature levels a CH can have, it would make him alittle less powerful. Since, animals should be inherently more difficult to handle, other players should not have access to any overly powerful creatures.
On the flip side, allow players the ability to obtain more powerful combat droids. Nothing as powerful as a top of the line CH pet, but more powerful than the most powerful creature available to him. This will allow the DE to be more competive as a crafter but allows the CH to retain the limelight as a premier combatant. DEs and everyone else will be able use droids. There would be no "unbalancing" in this regard. In addition, droids should not experience permadeath. R2 was blasted twice but was repaired. Allow a player to pick up his broken droid and have it fixed by a DE. This will make creatures more valuable and less expendable. Droids would take up more of the everyday workload.
So, everyone will want to group with a CH but will go to a DE for his combat companion. No need to overcert the system. Along with the other uses that droids have, creatures will play a less prominent role. Add some of the other non-combat module suggestions to the mix, most people will want a droid. With more droids walking around, at least it will feel more like Star Wars.
Sigh.
The problem is that you folks all want combat droids, but at the same time everything you suggests makes the combat droids even more worthless. Just because something can't be balanced doesn't mean we should try. Let's analyze a few things here, and one star me all you like but this is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Idea One: DE can make uber droids (not all of you are thinking this way) and use them themselves.
Problem: DE get a combination of strong pets and crafting for less points than other combat / crafter hybrids. People will flock to this profession over their previous ones and we'll have mass influx of DEs. It will be CH city all over again, except with droids.
Idea Two: Everyone gets certifications depending on how far they are in a combat class.
Problem: Make the droids to weak and they will be useless. Make the droids too strong and then the devs will end up nerfing them because everyone can solo, or end up rebalancing all the mobs in the game. This will NEVER happen, I am 100% certain. The devs avoid anything that has them make massive across the board adjustments.
Idea Three: Just make level 10 combat droids for everyone and slightly stronger ones for DEs.
Problem: We already have low level combat droids, called Probots. This will do nothing to stimulate the droid economy. DEs might enjoy the added protection of a slightly stronger droid, but they won't last long in the end game. Make them too strong and we're right back at idea one.
Idea Four: Make a Droid Handler Profession.
Problem: Not very star warsy I guess.
However with idea four you open up a whole range of combat droids for now and to be added in the future. You add a semblance of balance by making people spend more points to craft droids and use them, just like a weaponsmith / pistoleer combo, or something similar. Also you havea steady clientel. Who is going to buy your droids if you can make them yourselves? You think you'll make a lot of money of level 10 droids? Are you making a lot of money of probots now?
Trust me level 10 droids will not stimulate the economy. I personally won't spend 10k or more on a droid that will go down in battle after ten seconds. I fight gurks and kimos on Lok every day. Level 10 droids are a novelty for young players. Anything higher and without spending skill points it gets to be another imbalance.
You know I almost hope you folks get what you ask for so we can have another mess on our hands. I hate seeing people shoot themselves in the foot, but you folks are so obsessed with the ideas of controlling your own droids that you can't see how much you folks might end up hurting yourselves. I've said my peace, flame me all you want. I think I've argued these points enough. Cheers.
In any event droid handlers won't becoming out out to July (probably later too). That means we get to beta test DE with combat droids until then. I for one feel sorry for anyone who must invoke in crafting to enjoy a combat pet class. Being an ex-Tailor, ex-Master Image Designer, and ex-Master Creature Handler I firmly believe if nothing else these two play styles should be seperated and not forced onto each other.
Who in their right mind would want to be a DH anyway? People who really like droids, maybe, but the DE/DH structure is not the same as the BE/CH structure.
A Droid Handler would be different from a CH in one very important respect -CH's can 'make' their own pets. It would be a sick joke indeed to give a new DH class Droid Crafting abilities, so they would be entirely dependent upon DEs to make their pets. If the best Heavy Droids are comperable to the best CH pets, Creature Handler is still just better. If the best Heavy Droids are better than the best CH pets, CH still has the edge from the lower levels, and if they're better than the best BE pets, then the Bio-Engineers have just been made obsolete, and the CHs can justifiably cry nerf.
Itmakes no sense.
The problem I see with the DH class is that the market for DE's will be very small.
AsDH will be a new profession that nobody will have we DEs won't get to sell any high level combat droids for a while and will make just about the same money as now. Also, I can't really see that many people taking DH up if it is just a CH clone. Be a CH and its like DH but you get your pets free.
Secondly, the vast majority of people who want uber pets will already have CH, they wont switch to DH unless there are significant advantages (especially as they would now have to pay for their pets).
If the DHs are given advantages (which is going to happen just to get numbers in the class), a number of CHs will be pissed that they are no longer the number one pet class. The CHs switching to DHs will shrink the already small BE market.This switch wont really help the DEs either as they will have at most about 50% of the current BEsmarket (unless they really overpower droids like pre-nerf pets and then everone will have them). The remaining CH and BE comunity will cry nerf on the DH and eventually the nerf bat will swing.
Before this happens though expect to see a sustained period of robot wars in SWG.
Droid_Engineer_Rho wrote:
I challenge you to come up with four skill trees' worth of skills and abilities related to purchasing a droid, and spamming 'a'.
Good one Rho!
There is no problem, that DH's relay on DE's. Every combat profession needs crafter. A carbinner needs a Weaponsmith, he can't make his weapons himself and so on.
I completely agree with that what Monthigos said in this thread. You should think how the chages impact the whole game and I will go over the different things also.
Certification System
First, crafters should be crafters and no fighters, this is how the game is designet. Also you can't give strong droids to master combat professions. They would be stronger and the whole balance of the game has to be redeveloped.
I still see potential for a Certrification System, but on top of a DH's class, you can give crafters droids, that help them with crafting, medics droids that help with healing, and so on....
Droid Engineers can make and use heavy Combat droids
Then DE would be uber, everyone wants to be one. This will never happen, think how this would change the whole game.
Droid Handling profession
Of course, from a star warsy point of view this is crazy. But CH's are also not star warsy at all. But it would be the best thing we could get. Heavy Combat droids for the DH's, all other droids for everyone else.
My Idea:
They should make a DH profession. They gain the ability to use all heavy combat droids (combat droids of level 10+) Everyone gain acces to combat droids with level 10 or less. Then we have all the current droids, which are still useable by everone. On top of this they could add a certification system. But not to make crafters fight or to make fighters even stronger. Maybe a ressource searching droid for artisans and a better droid for medics, etc.
No tell me how the DH profession will hurt the DE's. In the whole thread, nobody gave an answer to this question (and that's the topic of the thread)
The point is, DH should have been in the game from the start, rather than CH. It would have been that new twist the game was lacking. Just cause DH is late getting here does not mean it should not come at all.
DH is the only real way to have Heavy Combat Droids in the game. Maybe some DE are happy making level 10 Probots, but im not. I want to build Destroyer Droids that peek up to level 30 and more. But who woulduse them? A Master Pistoleer? So hes a great fighter and gets a free super pet too, a DE? Well then why would anyone be anything else but a DE/TKA/Fencer?, and you know you cant give them to Novice Marksman Mark. So who do they go to? A Droid Handler!
Noob Posted:
Please explain to me how Droid Handler is a bad thing. I am dumb tell me.
Ok .. BECAUSE Cash paying $$$$ SOE .. faithfull customers.. old DE masters . .have waited and waited for some love.
You don't want to give them the love?
I think they deserve the Love not another new class. Also skill points could becomed more imbalanced or nerfed (less effective).
Certifications would completely wreck the lineups of combat classes. To compete, everyone would have the absolute best available droid with them. So a group becomes 10 heavy combat droids and 10 people. Such a system cannot possibly work. Every ability has to come with a price, and allowing just anyone to get a pet as strong as a CH's pet would be terribly unfair to the CH population, who pay a considerable number of skill points for their pets.
The only way this was ever going to happen was to give the ability to use the combat droids to a class or set of classes. It could have, and probably would have even, been Droid Engineers - but the people on this board vociferously objected to that capability loudly and repeatedly. So the devs had to come up with a new approach - and Droid Handlers are it.
This doesn't mean we can't still sell to the general public, only that the droids that the general public can get will be limited in utility. It's exactly like Bio-Engineers now, trying to make the very best CL10 pets possible - a marginal edge in quality pays off. Since the model for the Droid Engineer adjustment is built around the Bio-Engineer, what makes you think that the same won't apply to us as well?
Craftsmanship is what will make a Droid Engineer valuable, just like it does for all of the other crafters in the game. In a sense, this change is far better for Droid Engineers, because it gives a strong quality motivation, and a drive to produce better droids that doesn't presently exist. If you have to produce droids to come in under certain restrictions, yet want to make the best ones possible within those restrictions, you approach the problems in an entirely different way - and that's a positive thing.
No Droid Engineer who appreciates fine craftsmanship has anything to fear from this concept. No Droid Engineer who wants to be fair to the rest of the game population and have to pay skill points equally for their abilities has anything to fear either.