Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Thoughts on the new vendor changes?
Jenden
Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:12 pm
#66
Thats like saying weaonsmiths are the only profession with the tool to do combat or architects are the only profession with the tool to do crafting. Players could still go around to the vendors by foot, this just speeds up the process.
Straker_Atrella
Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:28 pm
#67
Ok two points here.
Letls talk about reselling, lets talk droids one or 2 of us here has a slight interest in those. Let's say Med Droids on your server go for 20-30k for cheap ones. Ok now some person throws 50 Med droids on their Vendor (Bazaar,) for 5k each. You go and buy them (ick,) spending 250k doing so. You then price the droids at 25k.
2 days later, the same person puts 50 more of them on his vendor, it's all that he makes, he can concentrate on them. You have sold 10 ofthe other Med droids, actually making your 250k back. However, you still havn't made money, and you have 40 left. Do you now buy the next 50? Then you have 90 to sell. Nothing stops the same person from putting another 50 on there. Actually, the fact that you bought everything encourages him, he made 250k! Ignorethe fact that if he was smart he could have still made 250k, with 1/4 as much work, not everybody is smart.
Do you buy the droids again, only to be stuck then with 120? Then 160? Then on and on.
Ok TK your idea,
While it would give DE's a way to mitigate the pain a little, it's still a bad idea. Simply because you are still giving people the ability to compare quality and prices with little to no work. Only the total best, or the cheapest will be bought.
I like the idea, but think it should be in this form.
- Send the Droid to a planet, pick an item, say Guild Hall. The Droid then scans allvendors listed on the Global Map. This keeps some value in merchant.
-You then get a list and waypoints back of vendors that has your item. It also tells you how many of that item it has. You now have a list of vendors to go look at.
No more searching empty vendors, you know exactly who has what items. WIth JTL, 1 minute shuttles, if you can't evne bother to go check a few vendors that you KNOW have youitem, then you truly are lazy.
jefmes
Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:53 pm
#68
Copied and pasted this post of mine from another thread:
I think it's definitley becoming more clear (to me at least) that this may just be an insurmountable difference between playing styles. On the one hand we have Joe Consumer who wants to get the thing he wants as fast as possible for as cheap as possible, and in the other hand there's Bob Business who can have a business of ANY kind, and he loves it for the sole purpose of creating the structure, playing the market, making sales, etc. A benefactor version of Bob Business is the best thing that ever happened to Joe Consumer, because he's able to get his fixes as fast as possible and doesn't break the bank in doing it, and Bob is happy because he's making sales and keeping happy customers.
But then there's Greedy George. He just wants money. He doesn't care how he goes about it or if does lose some customers, he's out to make a buck and smite the competition. He'll take advantage of Bob's generosity and willingness to not make the largest possible profit and find any way he can to undercut Bob until Bob's either forced out of the market or gives up because George's prices are just too damn low for him to make a living.
The problem as I see it then is this - the average Joe wants this new system because it makes it easy to find things and to find the best price in doing so, but it is also the perfect tool for the Greedy among us to undercut their competition if they have enough financial backing. This is ESPECIALLY the case in the professions where quality "doesn't matter." To me, quality ALWAYS matters, but the reality is that the system doesn't care.
So, I can concede the point that maybe not listing prices is a good alternative.
A. To give easy searching capabilities to the masses, and
B. To prevent competitors from getting into price wars that decimate the businesses of the long term and occasional crafters.
BUT...what if quality DID matter on everything? What if we went with a priceless system for a while, and then during the round of upcoming crafting revamps the devs went back and retooled all professions so that quality and durability mattered on -ALL- items? Do you want your couch to wear out a bit every time someone uses it? Is it worth the hassle for so many other players to have to replace common "decorative" items around them on a basis regular enough to keep the markets going for all the crafting professions? Even among us DEs, we've seen extensions on paint kits and battery life, because people don't like to bother with upkeep. They want to focus on the big picture for the most part, not all the nitty gritty of life. In a game like this though that has so much focus on a pseudo-realistic economy, can we afford NOT to move things in that specific direction?
Anyhow, I can go with the idea of not listing prices for now, but I don't think the rest of the non-crafting player base would be so understanding. Once the playing fields are more even though and quality does matter, I see no reason why we can't walk up to a friendly terminal and see what things are going for across the galaxy. To me at least, this is yet another reason why space, time, and distance needs to matter in a game like this. Not everything needs to or should be instantaneous all the time!
Thanks for listening if I've managed to stay coherent. 
jefmes
Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:59 pm
#69
Straker_Atrella wrote:
...
While it would give DE's a way to mitigate the pain a little, it's still a bad idea. Simply because you are still giving people the ability to compare quality and prices with little to no work. Only the total best, or the cheapest will be bought.
I like the idea, but think it should be in this form.
- Send the Droid to a planet, pick an item, say Guild Hall. The Droid then scans allvendors listed on the Global Map. This keeps some value in merchant.
-You then get a list and waypoints back of vendors that has your item. It also tells you how many of that item it has. You now have a list of vendors to go look at.
No more searching empty vendors, you know exactly who has what items. WIth JTL, 1 minute shuttles, if you can't evne bother to go check a few vendors that you KNOW have youitem, then you truly are lazy.
I know we're always looking for new ways to introduce droids into the game, but come on guys, really...it's almost more inconvenient for people to have to buy a droid (meaning they have to find those first), then send it out, then wait, then get the data back, then go look at the vendor, and THEN...the guy is charging way too much for it and you just wasted your 1 to 2 hours of game time you had for the night.
We can't be focusing on time-consuming, non-fun systems. Things can be more realistic and more fun at the same time if we're creative enough. Also, if you look at a ton of the changes they've made lately, the focus on reducing downtime and increasing the value of your play time.
Jenden
Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:01 pm
#70
If quality mattered on all items that would help the change a bit, but it still doesn't solve all the problems. You'll still have galaxy-wide price wars, you'll still have undercutting, you'll still be crushing the little guy that can't afford to fill up 42 pages of item listings, you'll still be making location and reputation unimportant, and you're still allowing people to get the most benefits for the least amount of work. In order to get the best of anything (best being best quality at the lowest price) it should take work. Its the same reason we've got resource concentrations in game. Sure you can throw down a harvester anywhere and get resources, but if you want the most resources then you need to do some leg work and look for them.
JavelinCatcher
Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:28 pm
#71
Atan wrote:
The Changes are postponed for now, but somehow i dont like her choice of words...
Tiggs wrote:
Based upon community feedback we have decided to take this design internally and work on it some more before we release it to Test Center.
We are leaving this thread open so you can continue to give us feedback and we can update you once the new design is posted.
Thanks!
I think it means that they realize there are shortcommings with the commodities market system, and want to improve them. However, the current design which was proposed was not adaquate to fit the needs of the entire population.
Personally, I go with gladness in my heart and think they made the right decision in this case.
Jenden
Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:32 pm
#72
JavelinCatcher wrote:
Atan wrote:The Changes are postponed for now, but somehow i dont like her choice of words...
Tiggs wrote:Based upon community feedback we have decided to take this design internally and work on it some more before we release it to Test Center.We are leaving this thread open so you can continue to give us feedback and we can update you once the new design is posted.Thanks!I think it means that they realize there are shortcommings with the commodities market system, and want to improve them. However, the current design which was proposed was not adaquate to fit the needs of the entire population.
Personally, I go with gladness in my heart and think they made the right decision in this case.
agreed, whatever they end up doing, thinking things over first and gathering feedback is the right first step.
RasalTheWise
Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:23 pm
#73
Atan wrote:The Changes are postponed for now, but somehow i dont like her choice of words...
Tiggs wrote:Based upon community feedback we have decided to take this design internally and work on it some more before we release it to Test Center.We are leaving this thread open so you can continue to give us feedback and we can update you once the new design is posted.Thanks!
You know, this reminds me when they were going to completely revamp how crafting works. Remember that? People were up at arms about it, and the day before the were going to publish it, they announced it was going to be in Live for a day and then revoked. It never returned.
I truly believe that in a heavily modified way, this market idea could be a good thing for everyone. The best thing I can think of is having all our products show up on the bazaar, but only provide waypoints and possibly an advertising blurb. No prices and no way to purchase it from the bazaar. That way, non-crafters know exactly where the products are (which was their biggest beef), and crafters can protect their prices and emphasize their shops.
TheRealTK421
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:18 am
#74
I'd think maybe a checkbox like...
Jenden wrote:
As for the vendor survey idea TK, I really like it. The only snag I can see with it is shops with entry fees. Do the droids get to skip the entry fee (not sure some merchants would be too happy about that), would they just skip over those shops, or would there be some kind of dialog box...
"If entrance fees apply, automatically deduct fee from bank" or some such. Basically, the droid would pay the fee in a way. I don't want to undo fees or bypass whatever. Just give a solution that solves more than one problem in one fell swoop.
/bow
Respectfully,
Jenden
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:30 am
#75
TheRealTK421 wrote:I'd think maybe a checkbox like...
Jenden wrote:
As for the vendor survey idea TK, I really like it. The only snag I can see with it is shops with entry fees. Do the droids get to skip the entry fee (not sure some merchants would be too happy about that), would they just skip over those shops, or would there be some kind of dialog box...
"If entrance fees apply, automatically deduct fee from bank" or some such. Basically, the droid would pay the fee in a way. I don't want to undo fees or bypass whatever. Just give a solution that solves more than one problem in one fell swoop.
/bow
Respectfully,
Only issue I could see with that is if people put that 50k entrance fee on... need some way to either calculate the entrance fee ahead of time or pop it up when the droid goes out.
TheRealTK421
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:34 am
#76
Okay...how about a field entry or slider that would...
"Only pay entrance fee if <amount> or less."
That would solve that....
/bow
Respectfully,
"Only pay entrance fee if <amount> or less."
That would solve that....
/bow
Respectfully,
Drashk
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:39 am
#77
TheRealTK421 wrote:
I'd think maybe a checkbox like...
Jenden wrote:
As for the vendor survey idea TK, I really like it. The only snag I can see with it is shops with entry fees. Do the droids get to skip the entry fee (not sure some merchants would be too happy about that), would they just skip over those shops, or would there be some kind of dialog box...
"If entrance fees apply, automatically deduct fee from bank" or some such. Basically, the droid would pay the fee in a way. I don't want to undo fees or bypass whatever. Just give a solution that solves more than one problem in one fell swoop.
Wouldn't it be easier to just disallow a door fee on any building that has a vendor that is listed on the Galaxy wide search feature? This along with not allowing a vendor to become registered in the Galaxy wide search, while a door fee is active, would remove this type of griefing tactic.
The issue of people on Ban lists might be a little more difficult to deal with.
Atan
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:50 am
#78
I dont think the droid is a good idea from the general player view...
to give one profession the only Tool to do Shopping is maybe not that good...
Now, what do you people think about such a System:
1. A Seperatet Terminal, maybe with optional the bazaar included
2. All Items on Vendors with the listing activatet
3. Visible: Location, Stats Not-visible: Price
4. Right-CLick: Save as Waypoint, list all Items from Vendor,list same Item from all vendor, list all Items/Vendor from this player(or same house)
5. Some kind of reservation System, means you mark it that you want to buy it, it appears in another color to other players, at the location everybody can still buy it
6. If possible, detection of evtl. City and/or Structure Bans, Entry Fee etc.
2. All Items on Vendors with the listing activatet
3. Visible: Location, Stats Not-visible: Price
4. Right-CLick: Save as Waypoint, list all Items from Vendor,list same Item from all vendor, list all Items/Vendor from this player(or same house)
5. Some kind of reservation System, means you mark it that you want to buy it, it appears in another color to other players, at the location everybody can still buy it
6. If possible, detection of evtl. City and/or Structure Bans, Entry Fee etc.
In a perfect world:
a) a Search Funtion!
b) an average price/CPU
c) Location listing with a correct recognition of player cities
b) an average price/CPU
c) Location listing with a correct recognition of player cities