Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Losing looped macros will hurt droid sales.
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Straker_Atrella
Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:59 pm
#53
neinnunb wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
I just don't understand why they feel to the need to go so extreme.
Unfortunately, sometimes we have to put up with annoyances to counter people who bend the rules. For example: Those of us who buy our games have to put up with the copy protection garbage. DAT tapes are more expensive to counter the loss in revenue the companies have from piracy. We pay high costs for auto insurancebecause other young drivers are careless. Etc. etc.
So in turn here in SWG, those that use recursive macros legitimately ATK are stricken from the benefits because of the people who exploit the system with bots and AFK activities. Sucks but thats how life goes...in and out of SWG.
In principle I agree, but people have offered many solutions to the problem that do not have any negative effects whatsoever. I'm not talking about not fixing the problem, I'm talking abotu fixing the problem is such a way that it is fixed yet doesn't hurt the playerbase.
Jenden
Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:51 pm
#54
Straker_Atrella wrote:
In principle I agree, but people have offered many solutions to the problem that do not have any negative effects whatsoever. I'm not talking about not fixing the problem, I'm talking abotu fixing the problem is such a way that it is fixed yet doesn't hurt the playerbase.
I've seen problems offered to fix individual symptoms of the recursive macros, but I haven't seen anything yet that fixed the problem of AFK "play" at all...
Straker_Atrella
Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:27 am
#55
Jenden wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
In principle I agree, but people have offered many solutions to the problem that do not have any negative effects whatsoever. I'm not talking about not fixing the problem, I'm talking abotu fixing the problem is such a way that it is fixed yet doesn't hurt the playerbase.
I've seen problems offered to fix individual symptoms of the recursive macros, but I haven't seen anything yet that fixed the problem of AFK "play" at all...
Buffbots hurt Entertainers, and solutions have been offered to fix that. The places that afk is an actual problem have had solutions offered.
It just seems like some people find AFK play so offensive that they don't care if it hurts anything or not, they just want afk to be gone.
If somebody afk's but it is not giving them an edge or hurting anybody, what is the problem?
Ghost_Shadow
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:42 am
#56
Jenden wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
In principle I agree, but people have offered many solutions to the problem that do not have any negative effects whatsoever. I'm not talking about not fixing the problem, I'm talking abotu fixing the problem is such a way that it is fixed yet doesn't hurt the playerbase.
I've seen problems offered to fix individual symptoms of the recursive macros, but I haven't seen anything yet that fixed the problem of AFK "play" at all...
I think I have a solution...
The current system doesn't allow AFK-play...it recognizes if a toon is doing something (e.g.: walking, crafting, chatting,....) and if the toon doesn't do something in a given time period it gets a AFK-mark (sorry, I'm not sure about the actual timing). And after a few more minutes the player gets disconnected.
The problem for the real AFK-players is to circumvent the recognition of being AFK. All you need to do is to place a /sitand then a/stand command in your macro. That way you are able tobypass the server-side detection of AFK-toons.
I'm sure you see the problem... why is it so hard to distinguish between a /sit command that a player typed ATK or a /stand that has been executed through a macro? I really don't know why this is such a big problem to fix... Why do they just throw in a line of code that makes it possible to see whether a command is executed ATK or with a macro? Maybe a number; a variable that counts for every command that is executed through a macro. And every real ATK action (like chatting) would then set this number back to zero.
That way you could still use all the helpfull littlerecursive-macros and could still stop AFK-play. I would be able to craft without getting a carpal tunnel because the system would recognize that I am actually sitting at my keyboard and clicking to fill in the resources (not to mention that I love to chat in the meantime ;-).
@Jenden: I don't want to offend you... I don't likeAFK-playat all and I agree that the purpose of a game is to actually play it. But why do we have to take such radical measures just to fix a simple problem. You say that the easiest way is to take away recursive-macros at all. But I think that they are a great way do get pastsome of thepoor game designs that we all know...
Small annoying bugs will be getting deadly unbearable for the gameafter killing looping-macros. And the Devs have to fix these littlethings instead of fixing the real game-breakers. So, if they fix the AFK issue in a good and intelligent way they have way more time to concentrate on the real problem like the GCW and stuff...
If there is still a problem with AFK in the future than they can disable the recursive-macros all together. But first they have to fix the core stuff to make the game fun again... and I belive that if the game is really fun to play then why should a player even consider to do things AFK?
PS: I'm sorry, but I can't reply within the next couple of days because I just moved to a new flat. And I don't have a internet-connection there. I have to wait till I get plugged... I hope within the next 2 days. (to everyone that wonders: I haveDSL at work but I have barrely time to use it ;-)
Jenden
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:32 pm
#57
Yes, I do find AFK "playing" that offensive, and I think that it could very well prove fatal for the game if left in. Already you walk into any major city and see a good number of AFK people, whether they're shouting out advertisments, playing in the cantina, surveying, or killing meatlumps outside of coronet, they're always there. A new player comes into town and sees a bunch of AFK people and assumes this game isn't worth playing (otherwise people would be playing it).
As far as it causing more harm than good when they take it out, the only thing I've seen that it will really affect negatively is the smuggler buying/selling faction points. Everything else will take an extra button press or two tops. Crafting is the most predominant argument I've seen, but when its a whole 2 more keypresses for something that ends up being more efficient I don't see a big deal there. Add to that that TH has already said they'll work on streamlining the process as a result of taking out the macros and there's no argument there.
The recursive macros are comming out, I have no doubts about that now. The devs haven't even shown a hint of backing down in their posts. All thats left to argue now is how some systems should be changed as a result.
Straker_Atrella
Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:28 pm
#58
Actually I read it that they were backing down, they delayed it already.
I respect your opinion Jenden, but I just don't see how it hurts the game that much. First the AFK numbers will continue to drop further, probably after a week or 2 after publish 10 they will drop to their final number.
Kill the afk spammers by making it so you can't say anything afk. Meatlumps shouldn't drop any loot worth macroing anyway.
You may not think 2 extra buttons a craft is not much. When that turns into thousands of clicks though, many people will.
I'm sure the people with disabilities such as Carpal Tunnel want to kill high HAM mobs as well, they use macros for that.
My droid sales will drop once Harvesting droid macros stop working, as well as Stimpack droids.
The list goes on.
Spend the time to fix the real problems, by doing a blanket solution, you are simply pushing the time back, your going to end up spending it anyway.
Malitevv
Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:32 pm
#59
Straker_Atrella wrote:
If somebody afk's but it is not giving them an edge or hurting anybody, what is the problem?
One thing the dev's may be thinking, even if they agree with you in principle is this: solution X may fix common hurtful afk playstyles oftype Y and Z, but unless it addresses afk as a general play style, it will very likely not address hurftful afk play style Q that nobody has thought of yet. Which means they may find themselves constantly re-facing the same problem over and over as the game evolves because they didn't **edit** the whole play style in the butt when they had the opportunity to do so.
Just a thought. I'm not advocating anything here. /shrug.
I hope that they find a way to address the issue without killing off the ability to access the toolbar from inside a macro. On my combat player, I have macros in place for putting on armor and for switching weapons that manipulate the toolbar. It would be quite an inconvenience if I lost the ability to use those.
Straker_Atrella
Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:24 pm
#60
Yea I agree, in case people misunderstand, I am not pro afk or really pro recursive macro (well a little,) my gripe is that this blanket fix will affect a lot of things, like Mal's point.
If your gonig to inconvieninace a lot of people it better be the only choice.
Jenden
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:12 pm
#61
Some new information, it looks like they're working with more of a low level idea that checks for possible infinite loops and macro run time. I'm surprised they went this way (it requires a lot more coding and a lot of very complicated coding) but I think its a great solution for the problem. It still eliminate's all forms of afk "play", yet allows for the /ui action toolbarSlotxx command (which was really the only one I think most people had problems with). You still won't be able to make an infinite one and terminate it when convenient, but if you're just repeating a command there's no reason you can't type a line or two out and copy/paste it however many times you want. and just run it again if you need it to run longer.
Straker_Atrella
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:35 pm
#62
Yep, I am far more ready to accept this new type. Well based upon details of course.
It's not that I was tied to afk, it was that the way they were fixing it was nerfing something else. So depending on coding, people may be able to run their harvest droid macro for 15 minutes, before hitting it again. I am cool with that.
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