Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: droid storage beating the imp crackdown?
Kollos wrote:
Items stored in droids also avoided the death decay penalty.
Seriously, it makes sense for items stored in droids to be able to avoid these scans, both from a "realism" point of view and more importantly from a programming point of view.
Programming: items stored in droids are not in your inventory, and therefore cannot be "seen" by anything that is checking your inventory. While they could probably program around this problem, it could very easily be more difficult to program around than it sounds. I've seen equally "easy" things be nigh impossible in my own programming experience.
Realism: Droids in your data pad are not present at the time of the scan. Your data pad only contains a control point or access point that you use to call your droid to you when you need it. Therefore, there is no way for the Imperial Patrol to scan your droid - they can only scan your inventory. Now if you actually had a droid with you at the time of the scan, then I would expect it to be scanned just like everyone else in the vicinity. But if the droid is not actually present there's absolutely no way that it is "realistic" for that droid to be scanned.
Sorry, I just don't see this as an actual"nerf" to Smugglers. I understand what you're saying conceptually, I just don't agree with you.
I wouldn't necessarily call it a "nerf" either, but I think it's something that falls short of what they were promised. Of all people, we DEs should understand that.
Smugglers were given a new ability.. the ability to potentially get theirselves and the group they are with passed an Imperial scan. This was added by community request.
Now, if everyone can use droids to bypass searches, what's the point of that new ability? Why would anyone want to seek out a smuggler to group with if they have no need of this particular service?
It would be like the DEVs telling us that DEs will finally be able to call more than one droid at a time, and then on patch day finding out that so can everyone else. It makes the ability less special and therefore less important.
I hate to say it, as I'm a DE and I've already sold a lot of storage droids to people who are hoping they'll beat the scans, but I'm on the smuggler's side on this one. /cry
Hi gang,
At the risk of getting a few more single stars I'd like to suggest that we stop the trolling and flamming. Yes, this is an emotional issue for both DEs and Smuggs, but with both of us getting more "attention" in the comming patches, I think we could actually get what we want if we work together.
My suggestions:
1. Smuggling is for smugglers. Make droids scanable (if they arent already). It seems to be another database issue, so it may take a while, but it only makes sence that if you can find your contraband... the imps could too.
2. Add smuggling functionality to droids.... AS A SKILL MOD BONUS to smugglers (+10 or so to our smuggling skill). We will become your best customers instead of your trolling/flamming second cousins. 
Sodan,
That's what we call in argumentation a "reductio ad absurdum." It doesn't really address the issue in this case. The real issue is not the storage of items. It's the storage of contraband. Contraband deals directly with smuggling. That you can store contraband in a droid and make it undetectable not only defeats the point of being a smuggler, it defeats the point of this crackdown insofar as it applies to contraband. If everyone can simply buy an MSE and avoid the contraband scans, than what little baby teeth this crackdown has will be basically gone. This cannot be intentional.
If people want to carry equipment, fine. All well and good. If people want to store that equipment in a droid, also fine. But if people want to move contraband undetected without investing skill points in the smuggler profession, that's not fine. And if they wish to avoid all consequences of the crackdown just by buying a droid, that's a problem too. Let's be clear here: again, the issue is not storage, but rather contraband. No one's trying to take away an ability that was given to you and no one's trying to "nerf" DEs or make them less useful. But lets also keep in mind that smugglers should have a role to play in this game too.
Look, I'm all for you guys being useful. I fully intend, once the utility droids come out, to invest in a stable of droids to do things like monitor my maintenance on harvesters and houses, manage factories, etc. I WANT to be able to have droids handle the crap that I don't want to do and I think the notion of "oh, we can't get rid of the time sinks" is silly. What then is the point of droids?
But by the same token, what, if we give everyone the ability to move contraband undetected, is the point of smugglers?
Captain,
I like your idea, but I would make the smugglers compartment take up all the room, and leave a single unit of space to hide that lightsaber or whatever. The rest of the room would be for "Shielding".
This would help to preserve our usefulness in assisting large strike teams that want to carry lots of weapons and armor, but allow Joe the Harvester to carry his secret stash on his R2.
I'm in orange:
CapnSteve wrote:
As a member of both communities, I'll settle this.
Smugglers, you have a point but aren't going to win many friends by yelling exploit and being melodramatic ("Our profession is ruined because we lost something we never had in the first place!"). Bad design? Yes. Exploit? No.
This isn't a bannable offense in my mind or probably anyone's mind. This is a workaround of game mechanics, and the fact that DEs are raising the prices of droids with storage is a basic acknowledgement that they understand what's going on. In technical terms, it's an exploit, but since that word is loaded with connotations of illegality rather than just a workaround, that's probably what has some people shouting it down. This is the Devs' fault for not being clear, I believe.
Nevertheless, this is a big oversight and needs to be changed. The contents of modules need to be scanned, or else the contraband system doesn't make any sense at all.
I think it's fairly obvious that smugglers should be able to slice droids to have a "secret compartment". You could substitute a droid storage compartment for the upgrade kit and require that sliceable droids already have item storage installed. A sliced droid would have maybe half its storage in the special compartment that is at least partially immune to scans.
In no case should any detection abilities exceed a Novice Smuggler's 15% chance to avoid being scanned. I really don't think there should be ANY bonus whatsoever if you're a non-Smuggler, just to make it clear to the community who runs contraband and who doesn't.Skillpoints and profession identity are paramount in this game.
But if you're a Smuggler and have read the forums in the past few weeks, you probably know what I'd say about all this...
ideas wrote:
2. Smugglers get the ability to make smuggling compartments, which can be crafted into high-end backpacks by tailors, and into item storage modules by DEs. Because this is a craftable, it allows *everyone* to get some small amount of scan-free storage but keeps Smugglers as a crucial part of it.
The problem there is that Smuggling skill can then be sold off, and we're back to square one.
All it takes is one person tolow-ball this special compartmentbefore everyone on the server is effectively smuggling. And believe me, somebody would undercut everyone else to make a quick buck on this, and it would happen.
Smugglers are supposed to be moving gear, not crafting buffs or items that allow other people to move their gear.Smugglers aresupposed to be the transporters.
Tatanka wrote:
You have the following options to smuggle contraband...
- Spend 19.2k faction points to become an imperial officer > 100% scan avoidance
- Spend 20k credits for a droid with a storage module > 100% scan avoidance
- Spend 121 skill points for master smuggler > 95% scan avoidance
I have absolutely no problems with droids being used to smuggle contraband so long as a smuggler was involved in the process somewhere.
Allow droids to be slicable in order to avoid contraband scans. Think of it as outlaw tech...
- Customer brings a droid they want sliced to the smuggler
- Smuggler uses a precision laser knife to slice the droid's storage compartment
- On success > droid is able to evade scans for a period of time determined by the smuggler's slicing skill
(something suitably long for masters like 2-3days)
- On failure > the droid compartment is unable to be sliced again for a period of time
- Unlike weapon/armor slicing, failure does not ruin the item and provides a value added service for smugglers.
- Using a limited duration for the droid's new scan avoidance gets around the current issue of eternal scan avoidance for droids.
- Perhaps DE's would prefer that the droid's contraband avoidance is "fused" on failure to encourage repeat business. (no idea what the DE community's feeling on this is... the weapon and armor smiths seem to like it... heh).
This solution provides satisfaction for both DE's and smugglers. The DE's get to keep their storage droid functionality. Smugglers get to keep their smuggling abilities. It also opens the door to a great possible feature of slicing droids for things other than scan avoidance (HAM regen, scan avoidance, weapon dmg/spd increases, longer lasting batteries, etc).
Ok, now this is a constructive post, though imperfect in application IMO. As long as smugglers have to use a DE component, this seems like a cool idea to me. Don't like the limited duration. One time slice determines scan avoidance. I've always been a fan of droid helping smugglers.
But this is a load of bullcrap:
The second optionsonly allows 50 slots of storage and that is five droids that are a pain to manage. The other options involve 150 items AND still allow for droid use for another 50 items.
My growing fear is similiar to what Kollos said earlier: from a programming perspective, it may simply not be feasible to have droids scanned.
Earlier in this thread I had mentioned that when I move something to my droid it's no longer available on my toolbar, even when I move it back to my inventory. This isn't the case with things moved to my bank and back, as I recall. This, to me, means that something special is happening when an item is placed in a droid that basically shields it from anything having to do with the rest of the world (which would also explain why they don't suffer item decay). It's almost as if an item placed in a droid simply doesn't exist as far as the rest of the game is concerned.
Matter of fact, now that I thinkabout it, I know for sure that it doesn't happen with the bank. The other day I was going to a formal party, so I took my backpack off and stored it in the bank. My backpack contained all my crafting tools (dumb mistake - I couldn't make anything to sell at the party) which I have shortcuts to on my toolbar. So, now those toolbar slots are empty.
Later, when I picked up my backpack and put everything back in it, the shortcuts to the toolbar came back. Now I haven't tried this since the patch, so it might be a patch-related thing and not a droid-related thing, but I know that last night when I tried to do the same thing with droid storage as opposed to bank storage, I had to rebuild all my shortcuts. I'll have to do more tests tonight.
I certainly hope this can be corrected. I like the ideas here for smuggling modules and such but I have the feeling that any such implementation would be a long ways off due to these technical limitations.
PlayeroftheDay wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
I always knew Item Storage was an exploit since its one of three things droids can do. Everyone should quit making item storage droids or risk being banned!
Solo4114 wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
System C -- Quit trying to rob a beggar of his donation hat.
You know, you're absolutely right. You SHOULDN'T rob a beggar of his donation hat. That's why I reported this to Taurin as an exploit. This can't be intentional. You guys should not be getting the ability to sell (literally) smuggling abilities. That's our job. Sorry.
Sorry, smuggler here. This is a very closed minded post, of the two professions out there that have gotten bent over the most why are we fighting about this? Simple answer: DE storage compartments are not an exploit. I have nothing against storing items in a droid. Droids hiding contraband? That is an exploit, right up there with putting extra missions in your droid's storage compartment as far as I am concerned. The Dev's need to see this immediatley, review it and let us know if the storage compartments are indeed scanned or not. As far as I can tell it hasn't been confirmed if they are scanned or not.
Tesshu
Gorath
Hahahah! That's great! So item storage in a droid is not an exploit, but putting sliced items in an item storage droid is an exploit. People have been storing items, sliced or otherwise, in our droid ever since they fixed item storage, but now suddenly its an exploit. Close minded my @ss. I'd rather be that than widely imaginative in my judgement of others.
"Exploit" is a word that only devs should use for reasons such as this bullcrap post.