Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Undercut by my own...
MichelaSundiver wrote:
Vynd, you also said this:
I wouldnt worry to much about it Jonas, many people playing dont have the faintest clue of business and forming a good competitive market thats beneficial to all. They lack the ability and knowledge to see how their sales impact the game world. However some people do...and hopefully with their intuition the sales market will find the rightstandard. Its only so long that people will sit their and decide that selling at a loss is stupid when they could be making more money.
I can read. And, I suggest that if you want people to treat you with any amount of decency, drop your little arrogance act. Don't make this personal when you can avoid it.
I, for one, am already tired of being talked down to by you. You have said things and then somehow don't want people to react to them. You don't get that option. If you want to pontificate, expect detractors.
If your going to do business like a child then expect me to treat you like a child...
If your going to do business like a child then expect me to treat you like a child...
If you're going to have such an attitude, learn to spell. It's "you're". And, don't give me that weak "well, you know what I meant" line. It just means that you are either still in school or just didn't bother paying attention.
Second, I don't see how running a "business" at a healthy profit is "childish".
If you cannot compete with my efficiency, that is your problem, not mine. That is not childish, that is just how things are. If I am beating you on price AND making a healthy profit, who doing something wrong here?
Think I'm wrong? Try to compete with GM when making cars. Think they'll listen to you when you start crying about how much it costs you to build a similar product? Not a chance.
Wow, I truthfully didn't expect this much of a ruckus from my post.
After reading everything, let me restate my original frustration in a more productive manner.
We are all DE's, therefore we all need to respect eachother. All you Master DE's know that being in the low skill levels of DE is a poor time in a persons life. I know that I have receieved plenty of requests for Probes, and surgical droids (all of which I can't make). Let the low level DE's make and sell what they can make. And Masters, or high level DE's, sell what you can make. Its not a "I'm n00b, give me cash" kind of thing. Its respecting others in your proffesional community and supporting your own.
Now I'm sure there are plenty out there that don't want to be part of the community. Thats fine with me. Be as you will. I just wanted the point of view to be raised and considered.
Again, thanks for listening.
Regards,
Zeheeba Lorne, BSD
I'm not a producer, I'm probably your customer. Let me say this. On one of my typical missions, I might burn through something to the tune of 5 or6 arakyd probe droids (this is to locate a mission that is time/cost effective) and about 5-10 seeker droids. This is per SINGLE mission. At my current rate, I'm pacing myself to do about 5 missions per day at a minimum. This means ideally I'd be looking to burn through about 25-30 probe droids and 25-50 seeker droids.
That being said, we have two different pricing models here that I can choose from. If someone charges me say 800 credits per probe droid and 500 per seeker I'd be looking at daily expenses from 32500 on the absolute low end, to 49000 on the high end. My take from doing 5missions is about 50k (that's at 10k-10.7k per mission). That being said, once you factor in the cost of travel for the missions - I'm basically losing money for doing my job.
Look, its your board and your profession and I sure as hell am not going to tell you how you should price your wares. Its not my place to do so, but from the consumer perspective here I'm presented with three choices:
1.) Find a supplier who can provide me with what I need at a price I can afford
2.) Take it up the hoop and lose money
3.) Say 'screw it' and avoid training the investigation line and doing bounties all together and just train the combat aspects of bounty hunter.
I can tell you right now, a good majority of hunters are choosing option 3. Personally speaking, I'm stuck with option 2 right now because I don't do my job for the money. At the same time I'm having a hard enough time finding someone who actually will supply the droids in large enough quantities that I'm pretty much ready to just take it up the hoop financially. Anyhow, I hope this helps your collective perspectives on the issue.
Have a nice day.
I agree, lock this thread. Arguing over prices can go on for eternity, and nobody's going to change their prices just because they read this thread.
Alexia Corban <AcroCorp>
Master Droid Engineer
Shop at 4100, -4132 Moenia, Naboo, Valcyn Server
oh and btw there is no way you could sell seekers for 250 creds with 60% profit unless someone is giving you free resources...
You're right. It's 40% profit. I swapped the 60 and 40 in my brain when typing.
Or, is this impossible, too?
Vynd, you also said this:
I wouldnt worry to much about it Jonas, many people playing dont have the faintest clue of business and forming a good competitive market thats beneficial to all. They lack the ability and knowledge to see how their sales impact the game world. However some people do...and hopefully with their intuition the sales market will find the rightstandard. Its only so long that people will sit their and decide that selling at a loss is stupid when they could be making more money.
I can read. And, I suggest that if you want people to treat you with any amount of decency, drop your little arrogance act. Don't make this personal when you can avoid it.
I, for one, am already tired of being talked down to by you. You have said things and then somehow don't want people to react to them. You don't get that option. If you want to pontificate, expect detractors.
Vyndice wrote:
oh and btw there is no way you could sell seekers for 250 creds with 60% profit unless someone is giving you free resources...
Actually, that's not true, no matter how you calculate that 60% (the original statement is kind of ambiguous). Assume X is the cost of production. Now, either the poster could be saying s/he has a 60% profit margin on her droids, in which case 1.6X = 250, and the cost of production is 156.25cr per, making the average cost per resource 0.87cr per unit. You can produce resources that cheaply in your sleep. The other possible interpretation is that 60% of the 250cr is profit, in which case 0.4*250 = X, the resources cost 100cr, and the average unit resource cost is about 0.56cr per unit. I myself produce resources this cheaply all the time. 30% wind and 70% resource density gives you about the right unit cost.
Before I go on, yes, I do sell my Seeker Droids cheap. Not quite that cheap, but certainly cheaper than what you guys are describing as the "bare minimum."
The problem is not so much the cost of droids as it is the amount you guys are willing to PAY for resources on the open market. Five credits per unit for steel? That's insane, but you'll pay it rather than mine your own. Resource production is cheap, fast and easy. Hell, I'm mining resources right now as I type this. I'll still be mining resources in a few minutes when I'm off at lunch. I could (and probably should, except it's boring) undersell everybody on resources and become filthy stinking rich in barely three weeks.
I assume that people who sell things for less than the cost of making them are stupid and will go out of business. If someone else can get their actual costs that low, then that's not their problem. It's mine.
I've seen some patently goofy suggestions here. Somebody said they'd like to see SOE set a minimum item price based on an arbitrary cost per resource. I'm sure you can find a textbook somewhere that describes Communist economies and why they don't work. The State (or in this case the Company) is not qualified to tell you what something is worth to you. Also, a lot of you should study the concept of "price fixing," especially the guy who said games are "supposed to be fair". Price fixing is specifically NOT fair, either to the consumer or to other businesspeople who may be able to produce better quality for lower prices and thus make more money. It's called "anticompetitive behavior" for a reason. Usually anticompetitive behavior is practiced by larger, established firms who want to punish innovataion among smaller, more nimble firms that may pose a threat to their business. That's exactly what a lot of you guys are asking for, and it's not just misguided, it's patently wrong.
The people who are underselling you aren't "ruining" the economy. They are the economy, just as much as you are, and you've got to learn to deal with the fact that other people make their business decisions based on different rules than yours, especially if those other people's business decisions happen to work.
Michela has a good store, and runs a good business. I am a master droid engineer, trained by Michela. I looked inSundiver's store a few times. I was amazed when I saw DZ droid with medical 6 modules andfood crafting stations for 4k. Advanced probots for 15k.. I just reached Master and now I have to lower my prices?
I didnt get mad. I didnt lower my prices. I continue to sell the droids I make at the price I set. And when I dont feel like making a droid for someone, I send them to Michela's store. I also bought a house for 3k that same day from another player. Its just how the game works. Some people work hard to have low prices.
I work hard to sell at average prices. (With a little adjustment so Michela doesnt complety end my career 
So this thread has no real purpose. Just standing in the corner of a player who deserves some credit for providing a service.
Since when does every item have to make a profit. Let's say this together - "Loss Leader". By selling the BH droids at a small loss, we are opening up a new customer base. Also, by selling these droids at a loss, we are being good community members, because the BHs don't have any other way to get these droids (and before anyone says it - I am a droid engineer, not a BH).
Galedeep Sunflash
Sunrunner
I can't believe I even read 3/4 of these posts. 
For the BH community, prices should be relativelylow for seekers and arakyd probes, since currently the these droids are still single use, and it takes several of them to complete one mission. When the uses per droid go up, then a modest increase would'nt be out of line.
- - - -
For you formula-heads, one thing you leave out every time, your fixed asset costs, do you sample your resources or do you use a harvestor? If you use a harvestor did you buy it? What did it cost? Same with your shop, are you living on the street corner or selling out of a house? If you mass produce parts, how did you get your factory?
Money is not so very hard to come by, I spentjust overa day runningsurveymissions,pre-change, to buy 3 Med miners, a solar gen., and a factory, andon myserver that was over 100K. Saying that players can't afford to buy your droids unless sell at Bazaar price levels is catering to lazy players and undervaluing your time, skills, and commodity. I can make over 3k in5 minutes,no exageration, less if I burst run. So is your time and resourcesto make droids worthless? This applies to all professions.
To the person who says that probots are worthless now, youreally have no clue, I've been incapped many times and watched my probe finish the fight for me, and this was an early model, light armor not medium.NonCh and low-lvl CH can only have 1 pet out at a time, the Probotis in Addition to that creature, the additional damage and tanking abilityadds quite a bit. Check your con of most non-ch pets vs. a probot. I have Ch too, so yes, I do speak from exp. =P
Now back to your regularly scheduled flaming etc.