Droid Engineer Archive

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BisonJelly wrote:

Why will people still buy Probots when a Bio-E can make a vastly superior pet that lasts forever and is easy to maintain not needing a bazillion subcomponents for a repair kit.


I really really hope that the Devs pay attention to what you just said there. This is but one example (of many) of why DE is "broken". From what TH seems to put forth, we shall remain that way indefinitely.

P.S. DEs sorry if i am trolling.

With posts like this, troll away, good sir or madam.

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DarthIguana wrote:

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SWG-Runesabre wrote:

It is my intention to add more utility to droids but it is not my intention to do this at the cost of another profession's utility. There are a lot of ways to give utility to droids so we would prefer to invent new meaningful utility to the game rather than rehash or steal away functionality from another profession. The sum of the changes should be an overall advancement/enhancement to the game and not simply a rearrangement of functionality.

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Are we getting "enhancing a skill" with "adding a skill"? I'm thinking of utility in terms of, if I'm a smuggler, a slicing module in droid would help me perform better slices not unlike BE enhanced clothing giving a scout bonuses to mask scent. I don't think that anyone is asking for a slicing module that allows non smugglers the opportunity to slice items for themselves. Has this argument come about from a lack of each of us not being clear on what the other is saying? chris

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I am certainly in favor in adding droid utility that enhances a specific profession's ability to do something. I don't mean to imply that that idea would be out of the question. I would prefer to add utility in a way that adds to the overall game and not a refinement or enhancement of a pre-exsting game mechanic. Ultimately it's all a balance of time, effort and resource that I have available to work with adn schedule. The main point I'm trying to get across is that just because I'm not wanting to duplicate existing functionality with droids does not mean that I have no plan of giving droids utility.

Perhaps it would be possible to have an idea of what you intend here?

Is that an unreasonable request?

Thunderheart has previously shown what the plan for Droid Engineers and Droids will be in Publish 7 and Publish 8 in a previous post. That plan still stands and is in progress as we speak.

http://www.gamekast.com/swg/foodtables.html

Nuff said.

That is the purpose of the Chef Profession, to provide foods that enhance player stats and abilities. As I've mentioned before, it is my intention not to duplicate professions. My goal for the Droid Engineers is to create more interesting utility oriented droids that does not mimic what existingprofessions do in terms of buffing player stats and abilities. The Droid Engineer is not a Chef profession; comparing the two is like comparing X-WingstoX34s.

Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 03-04-2004 02:10 PM

I'm not a DE, but am a customer, and I can tell you EXACTLY what kind of things I want to buy a droid to do.

I'd like to buy a droid to translate languages for me (IE: provide "subtitles" in my chat box by his mere presence if I don't speak the language -- and I SHOULDN'T speak every damn language after 5 minutes of playing).

I'd like to buy droids to tend my harvesters. Man, I'd pay PLENTY for that. I'd like to buy droids to POWER my harvesters. A treadwell and gonk working together would be ideal AND canonical (read the original script or check out the SW Radio Drama from PBS) for keeping harvesters running. Hell, Uncle Owen wants Luke to go tend to droids that are working the harvesters in the films.

I want astromechs to help repair my ship when I get one, or to repair my vehicles outside of town.

I want BLLs to haul my crap around and when the space expansion comes, to load my ship faster than I could on my own. Or to tend to my factories and load new schematics and resources in, while emptying finished products when I'm not around.

I want droids that I can walk up to and have heal me (FX-7, 2-1Bs) at someone's medical center (IE: home/shop) when no doctor is around.

In short, when you're coming up with utility droids, try not to think about it as them SUPPLANTING what players do, but rather ENHANCING what players do and SUPPLEMENTING what players do. A droid is primarily to take the burden off the player themselves of doing certain things, and/or to increase productivity. That's the whole purpose of automation. I don't wanta droid to do my entire job for me, I just want a droid to do SOME of the work for me, especially if I'm not around. You can still do things like certify certain module uses or simply leave them as is (IE: you can get a crafting module but it won't do much for you unless you're a crafter) in terms of having droids supplement player activity.

Try thinking about this stuff along those lines and you may find it easier to reconcile the whole "We don't want to replace player jobs, but we do want to add more functionality and utility to the droids" debate.

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SWG-Runesabre wrote:

I am certainly in favor in adding droid utility that enhances a specific profession's ability to do something. I don't mean to imply that that idea would be out of the question. I would prefer to add utility in a way that adds to the overall game and not a refinement or enhancement of a pre-exsting game mechanic. Ultimately it's all a balance of time, effort and resource that I have available to work with adn schedule. The main point I'm trying to get across is that just because I'm not wanting to duplicate existing functionality with droids does not mean that I have no plan of giving droids utility. Thunderheart has previously shown what the plan for Droid Engineers and Droids will be in Publish 7 and Publish 8 in a previous post. That plan still stands and is in progress as we speak.

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Good then. We are on the same page here. The lack of communication in tryingto clarify a position is the problem in the community. We don't understand what we are supposed to do in game if a droid can't enhance a players skills that they currently possess. It would seem to me that a Smuggler Slice Enhancing module would be an easy one to do. Just copy the medical module concept. If you can't use medic skills, you can't use the droid.

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Solo4114 wrote:

I'm not a DE, but am a customer, and I can tell you EXACTLY what kind of things I want to buy a droid to do.

I'd like to buy a droid to translate languages for me (IE: provide "subtitles" in my chat box by his mere presence if I don't speak the language -- and I SHOULDN'T speak every damn language after 5 minutes of playing).

I'd like to buy droids to tend my harvesters. Man, I'd pay PLENTY for that. I'd like to buy droids to POWER my harvesters. A treadwell and gonk working together would be ideal AND canonical (read the original script or check out the SW Radio Drama from PBS) for keeping harvesters running. Hell, Uncle Owen wants Luke to go tend to droids that are working the harvesters in the films.

I want astromechs to help repair my ship when I get one, or to repair my vehicles outside of town.

I want BLLs to haul my crap around and when the space expansion comes, to load my ship faster than I could on my own. Or to tend to my factories and load new schematics and resources in, while emptying finished products when I'm not around.

I want droids that I can walk up to and have heal me (FX-7, 2-1Bs) at someone's medical center (IE: home/shop) when no doctor is around.

In short, when you're coming up with utility droids, try not to think about it as them SUPPLANTING what players do, but rather ENHANCING what players do and SUPPLEMENTING what players do. A droid is primarily to take the burden off the player themselves of doing certain things, and/or to increase productivity. That's the whole purpose of automation. I don't wanta droid to do my entire job for me, I just want a droid to do SOME of the work for me, especially if I'm not around. You can still do things like certify certain module uses or simply leave them as is (IE: you can get a crafting module but it won't do much for you unless you're a crafter) in terms of having droids supplement player activity.

Try thinking about this stuff along those lines and you may find it easier to reconcile the whole "We don't want to replace player jobs, but we do want to add more functionality and utility to the droids" debate.

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SWG-Runesabre wrote:

I am certainly in favor in adding droid utility that enhances a specific profession's ability to do something.I don't mean to imply that that idea would be out of the question. I would prefer to add utility in a way that adds to the overall game and not a refinement or enhancement of a pre-exsting game mechanic.

This is very interesting as I see where you're coming from. Since Chef's give temporary boosts to certain skills you'd like to have droids give either different bonuses or an entire different style of enhancing abilties. Skill tapes are like a permanent Chef bonus, but we can't have that either since it would make skill tapes useless. If this is true, why was TH telling us that there was going to be any such thing?

TH: "Slicing droids and any kind of droid module that augments a player's innate skills isn't going to happen."

Was this a poorly written post by him that was made with a few misunderstanding/uneducated guesses? (ps. Sorry for putting you in the spot light of having to defend/go against another Dev's post)

Ultimately it's all a balance of time, effort and resource that I have available to work with adn schedule. The main point I'm trying to get across is that just because I'm not wanting to duplicate existing functionality with droids does not mean that I have no plan of giving droids utility.

I hate to be contrary, but what KIND of utility? So far the utility we've been given is very basic Combat ups for the Probot (likely leftover of what the Probot was meant to be with the supposed advent of the Droid Commander profession) and the adding of combat capabiltiies to the R units and other droids. Also the upcoming enhancements (exploding module? Sorry... thats sad) are very small attractions, including the Ever-Unpopular (tm) Entertainer Module. These are very small utility and not very attractive overall, is it still in the works?

Thunderheart has previously shown what the plan for Droid Engineers and Droids will be in Publish 7 and Publish 8 in a previous post. That plan still stands and is in progress as we speak.

Ok, great! Does this mean more utility is still going to be added? Currently the list is pretty sad. Also, will the community get a chance to suggest things? We have a lot of ideas, a lot of potential, and so far it seems that most of our stuff has been ignored or just defined as "impossible".So far, I hate to say it again, TH has been very poor with communicating exactly what the DE's are going to get or what we can have. Maybe he still a "bit" sour about our dislike of the DC (Droid Commander) profession.

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| Skye Blueriver:                                     | 
| Master Droid Engineer & Master Weaponsmith          |
| Lost City on Naboo, Lowca : Vendors at 3660 5667    |
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SWG-Runesabre wrote:

I am certainly in favor in adding droid utility that enhances a specific profession's ability to do something.


Then can you clarify the post that TH made that seems to be the opposite of that statement?


I don't mean to imply that that idea would be out of the question. I would prefer to add utility in a way that adds to the overall game and not a refinement or enhancement of a pre-exsting game mechanic.


Excellent. So.....what does this mean specifically?

You've all asked us countless times to put forth ideas, suggestions, etc. to that end.

However, we have had precious little in the way of communication in-kind from the Devs on this.

What do YOU suggest be added, in regard to..."[adding] utility in a way that adds to the overall game and not a refinement or enhancement of a pre-exsting game mechanic."??

I think that most DEs will probably cancel if we get asked one more time to give you our ideas and suggestions. It's time for that door to swing the other way.


Ultimately it's all a balance of time, effort and resource that I have available to work with adn schedule.


Great. Since there's been a great amount of discussion on this issue on your end, you'll undoubtedly be able to put forth details on what's ahead. Or....do we need to keep working up ideas that will never, ever see the light of day in-game? The great majority of what we put forth gets shot down in some fashion. I have seen hundreds of DEs shrug their shoulders and give up over that one issue.

It's time for that door to swing the other way.


The main point I'm trying to get across is that just because I'm not wanting to duplicate existing functionality with droids does not mean that I have no plan of giving droids utility.


Right on. We all want utility. However, utility that adds up to non-utility (i.e. 'eye candy') is NOT going to make us sales or fill the galaxies with droids. If non-DE players cannot justify the cost of ownership and use of a droid, they won't buy one no matter how "cool" the idea is...

It's as simple as that. Basically, if there's no 'power' in using a droid, people won't own them (for anything other than crafting stations, portable Med Centers or furniture). And then, there will BE no "Droid Invasion".

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Perhaps it would be possible to have an idea of what you intend here?

Is that an unreasonable request?

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Thunderheart has previously shown what the plan for Droid Engineers and Droids will be in Publish 7 and Publish 8 in a previous post. That plan still stands and is in progress as we speak.

The plan, as it stands, does have some nice changes. However, there are many that are looking at a Probot going from 9 parts to 20 parts thinking..."Is this really going to be worth it?"

The changes, while nice, will lead to a non-Invasion if they really end up being something of a 'nerf' to our profession. Why do droids have to be so very hard to fit into the larger scheme of things?



On a side-note: Do any of the DE/Dev leads actually play asa working MDE? If not, that's a GIANT mistake. It means that no one there can relate to our issues and see them for what they are....

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Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 03-04-2004 11:57 AM

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SWG-Runesabre wrote:

We've posted a fairly detailed plan two weeks ago of what we are planning on doing in Publish 7 and Publish 8 as well as what we've already done in Publish 6.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=24997

should read :

We've already tried to smoke you up by not describing exactly what will be in publish 7 and publish 8 , and we also have tried to make you think we have done something in publish 6

http:// look.here.com/it_has_the_word/droids_in_the/thread.html

Unfortunately, I can not spend more time talking about what my plansare with all of the communities in SWG. I wish I could, but, ultimately it's my job to deliver and that's where I spend most of my time; scheduling and driving tasks to completion internally.

should read :

Sorry, I have no time to spend withyour ... herr ... "profession" if it can be called like that and by the way there areso many broken profession in SWG that ihavenot the time to talk to each communities.I wish i could , but ... herr ... this is not my job ...i have great and interesting job and i do not want to have that stupidjob that consist inreading comunities post and try to answer to their questions ...

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JavelinCatcher wrote:

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meeuki wrote:

maybe that's totally different from the functionality the majority of DE's are requesting, if so i've missed the bus on this discussion i guess, but it seems from what i'm reading that 'augmenting a players skills' like stated above is part of what DE's are asking for. if that's true then what is the difference? am i just slow?

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That's exactly what we're asking.

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We've posted a fairly detailed plan two weeks ago of what we are planning on doing in Publish 7 and Publish 8 as well as what we've already done in Publish 6.

Unfortunately, I (a)can not spend more time talking about what my plans are with (b)all of the communities in SWG. I wish I could, but, ultimately it's (c)my job to deliver and that's where I spend most of my time; scheduling and driving (d)tasks to completion internally.

Here is a summary of that post:

Publish 6
Probot HAM was adjusted (added maybe 10 ham)
DZ70 droid was increased from level 1 to level 6 (still useless compared to a non CH pet)
Module Clusters were fixed to prevent cluster nesting (finally!)
Repaired the instance of multiple crafting stations in a single droid (bug fix)
Advanced Binary Load Lifters now have generic module capabilities (it took you guys 7 months to make a BLL do something, and you gave it a SINGLE MODULE!!! The BIGGEST droid in the game holds 1/6th that of an R3!!?)
Examine window will now reflect proper attributes if a droid has combat abilities (bug fix?)
Item Storage Module 2 and Data Storage Module 2 reflect the correct item name (bug fix)
Protocol Droids have a service module (see BLL note)
Droid storage compartments are now using droid experimentation rather than artisan. (nerf?)
Droid customization tool gives droid crafting xp instead of general (bug fix)

Publish 7: Droid Invasion (its really, REALLY inappropriate to call this an "Invasion")
Combat Droids (cl10, underwhelming)
Wound Repair Kit (very cool! Only took 7 months to get)
Battery consumption rate halved (nice improvement)
Droids will no longer be susceptible to poisons, bleeds, /warcry or /intimidate (bug fix?)

Publish 8: Droids Rebuilt
HAM Experimentation to make droids more powerful (yeah right. Another 10 points?)
Display for power meter (nice!)
Droid Customization Kit (will the colors stick now, orwill they be random on every call? Will the length of customization be more reaosnable?)
Customized appearances for Droid Deeds (adding the few chassis we cant display is nice since Droids as decorations is one of theonly 3 things DE provide to the community)

It is still an early look, but here is our goal for Droid Modules:
Entertainer module (apparently also underwhelming)
Merchant Barker module (this could be pretty cool)
Covert Detector Module (nice for the PvP community I guess. I dont PvP, so makes no diff to me)
Exploding Module (nice little consumable for DE, but with inv space limited and since droids can not be in a crate, not often used. We also cant use them if we already have the max number of droids in our datapad)

Thats it? Thats all we get? 7 months of waiting.......

(a) Here's the thing.....we have nothing BUT time! And you have an impressive amount of money rolling into the coffers at SOE. I refuse to believe that you guys cant afford a measely 200k a YEAR out of the 4 million dollars a month you bring in through monthly subscriptions. Hire a couple more programmers, or a couple more people to help TH with the massive workload he is under. Is it a secret exactly how many people work full-time on SWG? Will you tell us how many personnel you have access to on your schedule? Inquiring minds want to know.

(b) THis is supposed to be (sic) the "Droid Invasion" <insert fanfare?> is it not? Aren't we supposed to be one of the very few focuses for your team? Doesn't that mean we merit a little extra attention, FINALLY, from the Devs? A little MORE info, more DETAIL on whats happening? You are treating us only marginally better in the past month as we have been treated for the past 7 months.

(c) So deliver. Deliver us, the people who pay your salary, something we can accept. Note I did not say "what we want" as I understand you have a large environment we must be a part of. But give us something we can stomach. R2's with blaster duct-taped to thier domed heads is sad. One single module in a ADV BLL is sad. Protocol droids that have no inherant use is sad (translation anyone?). One droid out at a time for a DE is sad. Cant recharge our own droids with a power droid is sad. Power droids needing batteries is sad. etc.....

(d) What tasks!!?? This is what we crave. Info on whats happening. A glimse at the light that is DEFINITALY at the end of the tunnel. Let our Correspondant get into a Live Chat with your Head DE Dev on TC, or in a private chat room....or on the phone even!! TH cannot begin to learn all the intracacies of 32 professions in this game, and it seems this is a barrier to "effective" communication between us and the Programmers, and YOU! I bet Drask and the Lead DE Designer could have an INCREDIBLE conversation and really move the DE in a great direction! I drool over the idea of seeing a transcript of that conversation (monitored by TH or you).

Look, SWG is a great game, and the fact that we see the AMAZING potential of it is why many of us get so passionate about it and criticizing the current game environment. I know you guys are doing the best you can, and I believe you can take SWG to the next level (by getting rid of the "jedi" prof entirely! heheheheh), we just want to help.

Frankly I don't see a way in which EVERY profession can have a droid that is useful to them without simply being a very expensive skill enhancers.I few things do occour to me however...

• Merchant - Droid Mini-Vendor : a mobile vendor with 20 items of space.


• Generic - Assistant droid : lowers all HAM costs by 30%


• Combat -Exercise Droid :5 min fight with droidbuffs speed and accuracy for 45 mins


• Medical - Detoxifying droid : helps reduce the length of poison and diseases


• Crafting - Micro-factory droid : a small mobile factory for rapid production of identical serial number items


• Generic - Repair droid : improves repair chances for weapons, clothing and armor


• Generic - Data droid : lets be allowed to put missions inside droids again, limited of course


• Generic - Maintainence droid : lowers decay on weapons and armor


• Combat - Hunting droid : set the minimum CL rating, the droid will point the way as it hovers around you


• Generic - Translation droid : gives access to things like Ewok themepart, Jawa missions ect...


• GCW - Overt detector : gives a warning when another overt is within the range you set


• Generic - Training droid : program it with 4 professions to save time looking for a trainer

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Tal-N wrote:

Frankly I don't see a way in which EVERY profession can have a droid that is useful to them without simply being a very expensive skill enhancers.I few things do occour to me however...

• Merchant - Droid Mini-Vendor : a mobile vendor with 20 items of space.


• Generic - Assistant droid : lowers all HAM costs by 30%


• Combat -Exercise Droid :5 min fight with droidbuffs speed and accuracy for 45 mins


• Medical - Detoxifying droid : helps reduce the length of poison and diseases


• Crafting - Micro-factory droid : a small mobile factory for rapid production of identical serial number items


• Generic - Repair droid : improves repair chances for weapons, clothing and armor


• Generic - Data droid : lets be allowed to put missions inside droids again, limited of course


• Generic - Maintainence droid : lowers decay on weapons and armor


• Combat - Hunting droid : set the minimum CL rating, the droid will point the way as it hovers around you


• Generic - Translation droid : gives access to things like Ewok themepart, Jawa missions ect...


• GCW - Overt detector : gives a warning when another overt is within the range you set


• Generic - Training droid : program it with 4 professions to save time looking for a trainer

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