CUEmu - Thread Posts

MachineZed

Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:32 pm

It looks like we came up with an agreement. Or atleast close enough for government work.

§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
X Machine'Zed X
Obsidian Dagger Squadron

Pallida

Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:40 pm

#54

Actually, what we have is an individual that may understand my point of view.

In actuallity, so long as folks continue to state that "this is the way and the light", I will continue to publically correct them and state, for the record, that they are NOT developers of the game and can NOT, in fact, state that "this is the way it coded.. and this the way that it works."

We are not the developers. We can not make statements like those above... What we can do and, in my opinion should do, is to couch our comments in phrases that indicate that "this is what we believe is true"... any other phrasing constitutes a claim to understanding how the SWG system is programmed and maintained... I doubt that anyone here will publicly claim to be a member of the SOE staff when they are not. Why do they publically claim knowledge that they actually have not?

ssssssssssssssssSSS(:-<

- Account: Master TKA (cancelled)
- Account: Master Doctor (cancelled)
- Account: Smuggler (cancelled)
- Account: Master Chef (cancelled)
- Account: Master Droid Engineer (activity suspended pending developments)
Total loss of annual revenue (SOE): ~$715US to ~$900US
- Bad press: Priceless
Should Sony and Lucas Arts be worried? (15000 users * 5 accts = ~$13MIL in potential lost gross annual revenue) If I were the CEO for either LA or SOE, I would certainly be worried.

Auladan

Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:51 pm

#55

Kollos wrote:

Pallida wrote:

Your recommendation for experimentation, while providing potentially enough data to further a "supposition", cannot be defended against the fact that we still cannot know if there truly is an effect gained/lost by using premium/poor quality resources and/or experimentation on components and sub-components that presently display no quantifiable effects. Thus, further "experimental testing" can be considered inappropriate.
That is the whole point. If they display no quantifiable effects, then for all practical purposes they have no effect.
I will conceed your entirely semantical argument that we cannot positively know that they have absolutely no effect unless we have access to the source code. Whatever. It's a meaningless point. I would rather give people an answer that helps them than give them one that is technically more correct but which is useless.

I don't see why this thread is still going on. Kollos's post, quoted above, pretty much should of ended it. Pallida, the devils advocate, said himself that they (subcomponents) "presently display no quantifiable effects."

So, what ground other than semantics does he have left to stand on?

None. Let this thread die already. Since we as players cannot observe any changes with experimented subcomponents, there are none, for all intents and purposes.

Pallida

Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:00 am

#56

Kollos wrote:

Pallida wrote:

Case in point... A consistent visual representation of a internally calculated result tells us that 2 +2 = 4.....

Does that mean that 2 + 2 = 4? Or does that mean that 2.000951 (rounded)+ 2.100938 (rounded)= 4.11889 (rounded)? The program told us that 2 + 2 = 4... but did it tell us everything we needed/wanted to know? It was coded to present a "specific" result which may or may not be to our liking.

If we are only capable of observing a single digit, and we never need to add more than 2 numbers together at a time, then yes that means that 2 + 2 = 4.

In other words, it doesn't matter HOW the system got to the conclusion that 2 + 2 = 4 if it always reaches that same conclusion and it is the only conclusion that we are able to observe.

Care to address the other.. and possibly more pertinent... portion ofmy post? The one about there may or may not be an uncorrected bug working? Or is that completely, in your opinion, irrefutably unrelated an inappropriate?

If yer gonna formulate a rebuttal, at least formulate a complete rebuttal, sir (or ma'am.. as the case may be).

ssssssssssssSSS(:-<

- Account: Master TKA (cancelled)
- Account: Master Doctor (cancelled)
- Account: Smuggler (cancelled)
- Account: Master Chef (cancelled)
- Account: Master Droid Engineer (activity suspended pending developments)
Total loss of annual revenue (SOE): ~$715US to ~$900US
- Bad press: Priceless
Should Sony and Lucas Arts be worried? (15000 users * 5 accts = ~$13MIL in potential lost gross annual revenue) If I were the CEO for either LA or SOE, I would certainly be worried.

Pallida

Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:52 am

#57

Kollos wrote:

I already addressed it.

"In other words, it doesn't matter HOW the system got to the conclusion that 2 + 2 = 4 if it always reaches that same conclusion and it is the only conclusion that we are able to observe."

It doesn't matter if it is a bug or not as long as the bug is consistent. Does it really matter to us if the system changes due to a deliberate bug fix or an unintended side effect? No, becausethe result to us is the same - the system changed.

So for now, as far as we are concerned, EGPM and EMM qualityhas no effect on the final droid.

Ah.,.. but it does matter.. and here is why.

If we accept that it is possible that a bug is in work that consistently returns a result.. and if we accept that this "possible bug" is a known bug with a VERY low priority, then it is also possible to set up the following highly plausible and hypothetical scenario:

1) We accept, at "face value", your statements that there is NO benefit to using premium resources and/or experimenting on everything. Life goes on.

2) A developer, whomI willcall "Jim", starts working the non-critical bug list and notes that a low-priority, non-critical bug exists in a piece of programming code that has resulted in a consistently flawed result (your test results). Jim decides that he has enough time to repair the bug and not fall short of his other critical projects. The bug is repaired after... say... 45 days. However, the correction of this bugged piece of code, being non-critical, is not reported to the player community at large... Why? The decision has probably been made that this was a "minor hotfix" and that the general public doesn't need to know. Would you like to have to peruse what is potentially a thousand or more lines of progam documentation (related to bug-fixes) every month? ( I know that Ican makebetter use of my time than to review someone else's progress reports.. especially when that person doesnt contribute to my income)

3) Another 8 months go by with all of us livingwith the "truth" that experimentation and resource quality have no bearing on droid functionality... when the real "truth" is that, yes... experimentation and resource quality do indeed matter... that piece of code was updated and deployed 8 months ago.

(By the way..variations ofthis "hypothetical scenario"occur pretty much every dayinreal-life applications programming shops.)

Given the above hypothetical scenario... I'll experiment and use premium resources on everycomponent... every time. And I'll encourage everyone else to do the same.

Why? Because I cannot possibly know what is really going on in the programming shops ofSOE/LucasArts.

sssssssssssssSSS(:-<

Message Edited by Pallida on 04-22-2004 03:17 PM

- Account: Master TKA (cancelled)
- Account: Master Doctor (cancelled)
- Account: Smuggler (cancelled)
- Account: Master Chef (cancelled)
- Account: Master Droid Engineer (activity suspended pending developments)
Total loss of annual revenue (SOE): ~$715US to ~$900US
- Bad press: Priceless
Should Sony and Lucas Arts be worried? (15000 users * 5 accts = ~$13MIL in potential lost gross annual revenue) If I were the CEO for either LA or SOE, I would certainly be worried.

Rippen208

Sat Apr 24, 2004 4:42 pm

#58

Is this thread just a brag fest or what?

Rippen

Shian_Tavkin

Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:41 pm

#59

Nope, it's two famous Ego's having a friendly joust

Ohh, and Kollos is right

Though as usual, not completely. /grin

Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan

Shian_Tavkin

Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:06 pm

#60

Kollos wrote:

Shian_Tavkin wrote:

Nope, it's two famous Ego's having a friendly joust

Ohh, and Kollos is right

Though as usual, not completely. /grin

I'm famous? When did that happen? Where are my groupies???

You might be surprised.

But then, I did say the Ego was famous.........

Shian -- Master Droid Engineer/ Master Artisan

GrafvonSoden

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:32 am

#61

My MDE has made them with good and bad resources. Experimented to max and not experimented at all. The final product had no difference in performance for my BH. So I hope this answers the original posters question.

Kollos

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:38 am

#62

Shian_Tavkin wrote:

Nope, it's two famous Ego's having a friendly joust

Ohh, and Kollos is right

Though as usual, not completely. /grin

I'm famous? When did that happen?

Where are my groupies???

Kollos Orcslayer : Master Droid Engineer : Master Artisan

Droids by Kollos -840, 3980 Seacht, Naboo (NW of Keren)
Bounty Hunter Droids by Kollos 4924, 6107 550m SW of Kaadara
Vehicles and Master Artisan Components also available
paying 250k/point for Droid Assembly Skill Tapes, minimum of +4

Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: EMM and EGP Experimentation?