Droid Engineer Archive

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Shian_Tavkin wrote:

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TheRealTK421 wrote:

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duncje wrote:

Good ideas here as well. I just have a couple issues, given the current state of DE.

• This proposal would be much harder to add in terms of game developmentthan the other one. it just seems that the other profession is much more implementablefrom the devs point of view.

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Actually....you could have just stopped right here.


I think the time available for us is key to 'the answer'.


This is a great proposal as well Daker and exactly the kind of thing we need for most everything coming our way.

Really.


/bow

Respectfully,

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Daker, of all the proposals that have been discussed over what feels like eons of time, yours is the second most workable I have seen.

I prefer Sodan's proposal because it is simpler and fits in with what Runesabre is apparently thinking (he does not want to add in new professions where thay are not needed). I also think you are being over worried about 'your market' being adversely affected by this mythical flood of dabblers, but there we disagree.

So

Choice 1 - Sodan's proposal

Only if that one cannot be done could I support this proposal, and then only because it is better than nothing, which is the only other option at this point. I do appreciate your work on this though.

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If we are talking workability and ease of implementation....you guys are missing a major problem with Sodan's plan...

There are already thousands of DEs acrocc the servers.

The problem: How do you convert the DE profession to the hybrid with new prerequisites when people already have the skill?

Do you take all DE skills away from everyone and make them reearn them? (Devs will never do this)

Do you grandfather every DE in and let them keep their skills forever? (Devs will never do this, because it gives you too much power--additional combat droids--for no additional skill point cost--you don't have to learn the prerequisites)

Do you make it so that DEs can only keep their skills until they drop some, and the ones they drop can't be relearned until they learn the prerequisites? (This is a programming nightmare)

If we are supporting a plan that is "easy to implement" how does a plan that changes the prerequisites for a profession that thousands of players already have fit that bill?

Actually the implementation wouldn't be too difficult, and in itself doesn't require any changes in pre-requisites. It's just a matter of what methods you use. I agree it would be a problem if it was a straight increase in Droid Cl and number, however there are other options available for this implementation. I think the best is a combination of the original CH type Certs and the CL system now in place.

Think that instead of simply looking at the CL of a droid, the system looks at the CL of the Droid AND checks if the person has a certification for the droid.

Then take it that the Probot, and all the <=CL10 combat droids are automatically certified no matter what. Than assume that the +1 Droids out and the certifications for CL11+ are in Ranged Support 4.

Thus someone with ranged support 4 but no DE skills will only be able to call 1 CL 10 droid or 2 droids of combined CLs of 10 or less. This is because they are certified for other combat droids, but do not have sufficant CL to call any of them.

Also, if someone has the Entire Droid Control Branch but not Ranged support 4then they will be able to call 1 CL 10 droid (Or possibly 2, if you want to take the optional idea of +1 droids in Master Artisan, but I'm leaving that out for now) Because even though they have a CL of 30 or so, they can only have one droid out and they are only certified for theCL 10 or below droids

However, if someone has both the Ranged support 4 box and the Droid Control Branch then they are not only certified for the higher power droids, but they also have the CL required to call them.

Nothing in this requires any code (beyond a single conditional statment) that has not already been written and utilised in the game.

It can work, without severe disruption of the system

Good explaination of what I originally put forth, although you don't even need 'certification' just checking max droid levels and max combat droids allowed would be sufficient. The nice bonus is the flexibility. If the devs want to add additional droid levels or combat droids anywhere else like MDE, MBH or Master Artisan, it will be easy to do!

Adding a skill like +1 combat droid in ranged support IV, much like +1 additional pet would eliminate the need for a 'Certification' and probably easier to implement in my opinion. Granted, we really don't know how the code works.

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

If we are talking workability and ease of implementation....you guys are missing a major problem with Sodan's plan...

There are already thousands of DEs acrocc the servers.

The problem: How do you convert the DE profession to the hybrid with new prerequisites when people already have the skill?

Do you take all DE skills away from everyone and make them reearn them? (Devs will never do this)

Do you grandfather every DE in and let them keep their skills forever? (Devs will never do this, because it gives you too much power--additional combat droids--for no additional skill point cost--you don't have to learn the prerequisites)

Do you make it so that DEs can only keep their skills until they drop some, and the ones they drop can't be relearned until they learn the prerequisites? (This is a programming nightmare)

If we are supporting a plan that is "easy to implement" how does a plan that changes the prerequisites for a profession that thousands of players already have fit that bill?

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Javac wrote:
Adding a skill like +1 combat droid in ranged support IV, much like +1 additional pet would eliminate the need for a 'Certification' and probably easier to implement in my opinion. Granted, we really don't know how the code works.

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Well, the problem with that would be that a Master DE would be able to get a higher level Combat droid (Only a single one though) without any increase in pre-requisites. I don't think that that would be what the Devs want, and so the Certs in the Ranged Support tree would be a backup to ensure that the combat droids themselves have the full amount of skillpoints spent for the use of them

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

The problem: How do you convert the DE profession to the hybrid with new prerequisites when people already have the skill?

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Sodan's plan does not change prerequisites. It gives +1 combat droid at Ranged support 4, then give the +combat levels in the 0040 tree of DE. There is no additional prerequisite to be a DE, just to be able to control the combat droids. The DE's that simply want to be crafters can be crafters, the DE's that want to control the combat droids will have to take up Ranged Support 4.

Message Edited by duncje on 03-09-2004 08:40 AM

Message Edited by duncje on 03-09-2004 08:41 AM

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Arcid wrote:

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Javac wrote:
Adding a skill like +1 combat droid in ranged support IV, much like +1 additional pet would eliminate the need for a 'Certification' and probably easier to implement in my opinion. Granted, we really don't know how the code works.

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Well, the problem with that would be that a Master DE would be able to get a higher level Combat droid (Only a single one though) without any increase in pre-requisites. I don't think that that would be what the Devs want, and so the Certs in the Ranged Support tree would be a backup to ensure that the combat droids themselves have the full amount of skillpoints spent for the use of them

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I'm not sure what you're saying here. The idea is that MDE alone cannot use greater than CL10 droids without the ranged support line.

Ah, I see where the disconnect is now. I don't see why an MDE would be able to call a single droid up to maximum CL without the +1 Droids from support. Less than CL10 droids would work the same way as nonch pets, nothing required to call. Anything greater than CL10 you'd need the additional droid levels from the DE line and the +1 combat droid from ranged support 4.

Just 0040 DE you've got all the droid levels, but can't call combat droids.
Just 0004 Marksman, you can call combat droids but don't have the levels to call anything greater than CL10.

The thing is I think that there is currently no way for the system to differentiate between a slot for a CL <10 Droid and a CL >10, both are just generic Droid slots. If they are easy to differientiate (say by having the Generic Droids as one category, and the Combat droids as another, same as the difference between creature pets and Droids now), then the +1 droids in Ranged Support would be all that's needed, however if they are Generic Slots then I think the Certs would be needed to keep it balanced.

Well, we've got ideas to balance it either way now, so that's another possible problem compensated for

Gotcha, at least we're talking about the same goal. I didn't see that as a problem, since it would work the same way as nonch pets. All of the current droids are CL10 or less, so require no skills at all to call. Any new combat droids would be greater than CL10, so would require skill checks and to sucessfully call.