Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: CU Skill Point Requirements Increasing
Akkori
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:55 pm
#40
GnomeAd wrote:
I think a lot of this is derived from a catch-22 situation. Since most DEs are MAs, the market for crafting these components isn't there. If there were fewer DE/MAs, there would be a bigger market for the parts and therefor more MAs selling them. I do agree with Jenden, however, that finding a MA to make these parts isn't really hard, just a real PITA.
DarthRoe wrote:
With all due respect, Jenden, working around the MA requirements is not as easy as you continually espouse. Despite the fact that you have a good working arrangement, it doesn't work that way for most DEs. Given that MA components are required for nearly every final build product we make, you either need to be a MA yourself or be a very low-volume DE that can make 249 adv. droid brains last forever.
I don't really get into combat, so I don't really care too much about the skill points myself. I do feel, though, that it is a slight mischaracterization to be telling DEs that not having MA is a minor inconvenience that can easily be worked around.
QFE. I opened up a Master Artisan biz a few weeks ago. I sell packs of full runs of MA parts, as well as half packs. I haven't sold a single pack yet. The cost is about 9-12 cpu (experimented CU are highest price). No one buys them because they all have MA already. I foresaw this change coming, and wanted to be in position to provide this needed service to DE who did not or could not keep MA after the CU hits.
I am about to adjust this business model to sell just the schematics and leave only the resources in the packs, so they will take the schema and the pack, and run it in their own factories. To discourage people just buying the packs and making the schema useless, I may add arefundable markup on the resources....we'll see.
Change = Good. For too long have people been able to solo every part of this game.
Akkori
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:58 pm
#41
Doh! I shoulda read the whole thread first, heheh......
Drashk wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
There is a market for selling (and buying) those parts if you make one. Talk to the other Eclipse DE's a bunch of them exist. Say "what if we could drop MA, and had a supplier for the parts." Work out a price with the other DE's, for example 200cr for an EMM so 5000 a crate, adding an extra 3200 cost onto your R3s for example.
Then once you settle on a price, you advertise that you are looking for somebody to keep a vendor (or more then one,) always stocked with MA parts. You will get people JUMPING to fill the role. That is 10 CPU profit off of resources that do not matter.
One of the coolest ways that I have seen someone suppling schematics for sales was a Master Artisan that had set up a vendor with a few bags of resources, with a serial number for a name, and a few corresponding schematics. The bag was listed for 3 cpu for the resources in the bag, and the schematic was listed for its own price.
This gave the Artisan the ability to offer the schematic, and everything needed to make the factory run, without needing to use his/her own factory time or create storage issues.
ArdenStarmariner
Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:54 am
#42
galarion wrote:
I do SWG in the evenings occassionally as entertainment. I'm not looking to turning my evenings into a full time hunt for Master Artisans, most of which will be off chasing some other profession by the next time I need a factory run of modules. I want to spend some time rebuilding and restocking my vendor, then go out to meet friends to go hunting, or do the latest village phase, or go kill the Star Destroyer in Deep Space, or go chase my lady friends, or go explore some new quest or content that's just been added. That is how I've continued to be a DE for two years! I don't burn myself out doing any one thing.
Thank you for your advice but what your suggested will quickly turn what is suppose to be entertainment into a chore.BLA BLA BLA....what your saying is that you pay monthly for an mMorpg you dont play very often, that you hate, and that you are not willing to relate to other players in..................hmmmm
Why ???
Yeah, you and the horse you rode in on...
ASHRID
Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:58 am
#43
What most of us seem to have overlooked is that, unless the devs make MA more attractive (or its schematics a bigger requirment for other master crafting professions), then its going to be the first thing people drop when they find out they need more skill points for the combat professions......
I dont know any MA's that have the skill simply for its own merits.......
Its all very well discussing how trivial (or not) it is to find an MA right now. It'll be a completely different story once the current MAs realise how many skill points they suddenly need elsewhere......
TrueBoom
Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:06 am
#44
ASHRID wrote:
What most of us seem to have overlooked is that, unless the devs make MA more attractive (or its schematics a bigger requirment for other master crafting professions), then its going to be the first thing people drop when they find out they need more skill points for the combat professions......
I dont know any MA's that have the skill simply for its own merits.......
Its all very well discussing how trivial (or not) it is to find an MA right now. It'll be a completely different story once the current MAs realise how many skill points they suddenly need elsewhere......
I know I wouldn't have it if I didn't need the components. It's too difficult to run a Droid business without ready access to those schematics. In this past week alone I've had to run off 4k Elec Memory modules, and 2k Elec GPP Modules. Also had to make others like the contol module, enery distributer, etc. Would not have been able to do that had I not had MA myself, because finding one to make schematics for me has been nearly impossible.
ArdenStarmariner
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:10 am
#45
It won't be a case of current MDE's giving up MA to get the extra skill points for combat profession and thus create a new market for MA's. What people will do is give up MA AND MDE both, pushing DE's closer to the extinction level. So if your out there cranking out alot of MA parts and drooling about selling them, your in for a big disappointment. I know I'm one that's going to toss both professions if it comes down to this decision.
SettingSun
Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:12 am
#46
I'll be droping MA and DE not long after the CU comes out as well. I am going to stick with it long enough to see what the expanion gives us.
Nell2ThaIzzay
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:35 pm
#47
I agree with the concerns over the skill point requirements. The thing I love about this came is the ability to be so versatile with one character. In no other MMORPG can I, with one character, craft droids and run a business selling those droids, or use those droids myself in different everyday tasks from crafting to fighting,go hang out in the cantina and watch the entertainers either dancing or playing music, run around different planets hunting creatures for A. money from missions or B. to tame, train, and raise to be my own, as either a partner in fighting, or just as a companion to follow me around, go into different cities and fight the military rule there to free my cities from the evil Rebel terrorists (sure, killing Rebel NPC's in Tyrena doesn't do anything for the GCW perspective, but from my own role playing perspective it does wonders), and if I get bored with that, I can still hop into one of my ships and go into space, and travel and explore the galaxy, or destroy some Rebel ships and other space scum.
Other MMORPG's let me be one thing, and do one thing. That gets old (it's why, even tho I left this game for City of Heroes, I'm back posting on these forums, playing this game, and not over on the City of Heroes forums, and playing that game).
People say we need to "unlearn what we've learned", and that we shouldn't be able to do so much. I ask, why not? The game is supposed to be fun, aye? And guess what made me stay with this game for so long? The fun I was having, being able to do so many different things. I can assure you that it won't last if I have to be delegated to less roles.
Now I dunno that's how it's going to be. Checking the new skill pre-reqs, I should be able to take up a tree of Bounty Hunter. I still don't like being forced to give up something I made within what the system allowed, and didn't exploit it. But it looks as tho I'll manage. But the point is, I've already had to give up so much before I finally settled on a template that would give me the most enjoyment for my 250 skill points (I still regret having to give up Musician, especially now that one of my original Musician buddies is back in the game. I also am sitting around everytime I come on these forums, and log into the game, wondering if I should just do it and go after Bio-Engineer like I've been interested in doing for so long, but never did because I don't wanna give anything else up). I (and others, also) shouldn't be forced to give up what they've worked for building their character, 2 years into a game. That's been my concern with the combat upgrade the entire time ( Straker and I have had our fair share of arguements in the GCW Forums about it 
). Not to say that there are other things about it I don't like. I haven't tested it, but from what I've read of the documents, it looks like it's gonna be utter garbage. Tho, I don't think it's going to ruin the game, I'll still stick around I think, but I don't think it's gonna be good for the game like some seem to think.
). Not to say that there are other things about it I don't like. I haven't tested it, but from what I've read of the documents, it looks like it's gonna be utter garbage. Tho, I don't think it's going to ruin the game, I'll still stick around I think, but I don't think it's gonna be good for the game like some seem to think.I am very concerned with the additional skill point requirements being added tho, and I don't think they are going to do anybody a lick of good. All they are going to do iscatch hybrids like me in the crossfire and make us redesign our characters and templates, and make us focus more on one aspect of the game, making us more like everyone else with the same profession, instead of giving us the versatility and uniqueness that was the drawing factor for me into this game, while the stackers will still stack by just dropping their least valuable combat tree. I don't see who this benefits, and until the CU goes live and possibly proves me wrong, I can't see any benefit to the increased skill point costs.
ArdenStarmariner
Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:55 am
#48
Well, this tool confirms it. After the CU, there wont be enough skill points for me to remain a Master Pistoleer/Master Droid Engineer/Master Artisan/Merchant 3-0-0-0 which is bare minimum to do business and still be able to get out of my shop and get some variety of game play. So Master Artisan and Master Droid Engineer get the axe.
http://swg.bur.st/swg-cb.php?prof_id=26
I can however, be a Master Pistoleer/Master Weaponsmith/Merchant 4-0-0-4 in the respec, make a boat load of alot more money for less work, less skill point requirements, and alot more vendors, and still able to get around and enjoy the game. Hell, alot of the rare resources I've been stockpiling and wasting on DE for 2 years will directly convert over to WS.
You'd think they'd try and rescue DE from extinction by moving the schematics for the electronics down from Master Artisan to Engineering 4. But guess not. Go figure.
If you can't beat them, join them. You guys have finally managed to beat the love for DE outta me.
http://swg.bur.st/swg-cb.php?prof_id=26
I can however, be a Master Pistoleer/Master Weaponsmith/Merchant 4-0-0-4 in the respec, make a boat load of alot more money for less work, less skill point requirements, and alot more vendors, and still able to get around and enjoy the game. Hell, alot of the rare resources I've been stockpiling and wasting on DE for 2 years will directly convert over to WS.
You'd think they'd try and rescue DE from extinction by moving the schematics for the electronics down from Master Artisan to Engineering 4. But guess not. Go figure.
If you can't beat them, join them. You guys have finally managed to beat the love for DE outta me.
Cianhydle
Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:07 pm
#49
Dear ArdenStarmariner,
Hi, I'm Renea from Tempest. I am an Armorsmith. 
I would just like to add my perspective to this thread. First, I want to say I can feel your pain. As an AS I need MA to make subcomponents for PSGs, 0300 tailor for the 2-3subcomponents usedforin every piece of armor, 3000 merchant at the minimum,every armor requires 1-6 types of organics (some of which are specific, i.e. padded armor, 4 organics, 2 specifics) thus some minimal levelscout, and then somethingto take down the critterand maybe a little bit of offensefor when I ambored of being a complete crafter. As anAS I can onlymake 3 (finished) items without dependency on another profession(ironically,none of these 3 item areeven armor.)
Obviously armor is more useful than droids andthat's where you guys are really getting hosed. Droids just aren't really that useful in the game; that is a shame too.
I have been arguing a similar thread in the Armorsmith forum as rumors were circulated about yet more dependency being required (i.e. armor skins.) Some dependency is good; the level of interdependency forced upon the AS profession has made it a multi-account user profession only. Well, you can network and make ends meet just fine - but it's not as easy. However, it doesn't work that way. The dependency is so great that many (based upon the AS listing in our forum, and the sigs of regular posters) AS are the crafter account while they have loot hunters on their otther account. One thing I have tried to do is balance my crafting and combat on a single account. This allows me more flexibility in what I can do when I log into the game. People who rally for complete interdependecy or retort, "Network more, it won't kill you this is a MMORPG, etc." are often those who are not forced to make these choices because theyhave multiple accounts. This will definately be harder to do after the CU now that elite combat professions are the only ones to have armor certifications and require an addition row of skills. From my testing on TC5, harvesting runs as a complete non-combatant will be a nightmare.
Sadly,my thread entitle "Revamp Unacceptable; AS Perspective"disappeared within 48 after the initial posting with 25 replies. It might have beendue to a mild argument between two people. Yes, technically this is against the forum policy.
It still boggles my mind how the "CU makes the Baby Jesus Cry"is still going in another forum when it says... ah well, nevermind. 
Anyways, take care Arden and good luck. Personally I won't bother with posting ideas or criticisms on the forums. First, only jerks reply. Second, the developers don't reply (but people sure can remove my posts!) Thirdly, the CU is being rushed out the door in order to make the expansion deadline. Evenif something was critically flawed, there wouldn't be time to change it. (See the scopes and stocks thread in weaponsmith forum.)
Your pal,
Renea,
Message Edited by Cianhydle on 04-07-2005 03:14 PM
Straker_Atrella
Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:37 am
#50
I am going to back off on my earlier comments on this thread and say that it really does look like crafters are being squeezed really tight. FS points hurt a lot as well.
ArdenStarmariner
Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:38 am
#51
A friend made a suggestion that I'll use to keep going. The suggestion was to respec as a master brawler. I prefer ranged combat so I'll respec as a master marksman. Of course, compared to formally having one master elite combat profession, this is getting really gimped. A real pitiful solution but I don't see much else to do to keep my style of game play.
If the DEV's keep forcing more and more specialization so it becomes impossible to engage in a variety of activities without multiple accounts, this game is gonna become even more boring than it it already is. CU is certainly pushing everyone hard to either be pure crafter or pure combat. Well, doing either pure crafting or pure combat all the time gets old real fast. And of course, if you go pure crafter, you shoot yourself in the foot as far as being able to enjoy just about any of the quest or content. And if you go pure combat, you consign yourself to mindless mission grinding for cash to keep everything you own in maintenance.
What's so wrong with being a part time crafter, stocking a few vendors and letting them sell to keep you in living expenses, then going off to have fun doing quest and enjoying the content? Apparently the DEV's find something extremely offensive about it cause it sure appears they are trying to grind such playstyles out of existence.
If the DEV's keep forcing more and more specialization so it becomes impossible to engage in a variety of activities without multiple accounts, this game is gonna become even more boring than it it already is. CU is certainly pushing everyone hard to either be pure crafter or pure combat. Well, doing either pure crafting or pure combat all the time gets old real fast. And of course, if you go pure crafter, you shoot yourself in the foot as far as being able to enjoy just about any of the quest or content. And if you go pure combat, you consign yourself to mindless mission grinding for cash to keep everything you own in maintenance.
What's so wrong with being a part time crafter, stocking a few vendors and letting them sell to keep you in living expenses, then going off to have fun doing quest and enjoying the content? Apparently the DEV's find something extremely offensive about it cause it sure appears they are trying to grind such playstyles out of existence.
SettingSun
Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:53 am
#52
Cianhydle wrote:
Dear ArdenStarmariner,
Hi, I'm Renea from Tempest. I am an Armorsmith.
I would just like to add my perspective to this thread. First, I want to say I can feel your pain. As an AS I need MA to make subcomponents for PSGs, 0300 tailor for the 2-3subcomponents usedforin every piece of armor, 3000 merchant at the minimum,every armor requires 1-6 types of organics (some of which are specific, i.e. padded armor, 4 organics, 2 specifics) thus some minimal levelscout, and then somethingto take down the critterand maybe a little bit of offensefor when I ambored of being a complete crafter. As anAS I can onlymake 3 (finished) items without dependency on another profession(ironically,none of these 3 item areeven armor.)
<snip>
Your pal,
Renea,
Message Edited by Cianhydle on 04-07-2005 03:14 PM
You don't NEED, scout, tailor or even merchant to be an Armorsmith. You could join a guild or post on your server's trade form for what you need or just talk to people and work out some kind of agreement.
If you feel those skills are a must have then you will need to be willing to give up skills in other areas to have them.