Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Fellow DE's: Forming a unified discussion on Combat Droids
I wish there was some way to compromise but I can see little possibility. I can't back down from the 'total module mobility' because to remove it and make specific droids for specific purposes would be the largest nerf this profession would ever suffer. We of this profession are alone in the unique position of being able to totally customize what we build. We don't suffer the same limitations that the other professions have in terms of what they can build. There is no way I can step forward and actively try and limit that without sound evidence that it will damage things in the long run.
But the open market is the best dictator of what will work and what won't work. It is in essense natural selection and will be the greatest driving influence into what modules will most likely go into what droids. However there is no reason to limit what we can do, just because we don't have to do it.
Besides.. I remember C-3PO's chassis using a gun at one point, though I could very well be mistaken. Haven't seen the new films in a while.
As far as the public is concerned? Education is key. the more they know the more they'll buy. Either we can step up to the plate and provide the knowledge for them or we can demand that the Devs nerfus to a point whereno intelligence is required to use a droid. It is at that point where I will walk away from the profession in disgust.Intelligence is the cost of having the power oftotal modularity. Either use it ordon'tbut don't demand that everyone have to play at a 'dumbed down' level if you can't be bothered to seize the oppertunity.
And the only answer worth bothering to give to the person above: All it would take for me to modify my paintball gun (Being an ex-professional paintball player I have more than a few laying around) would be a night of driver writing based on the RS232 portand a couple soldered wires. The triggers (much as a blaster's would be) are mostly all electronic now, and easily modified into a computer. In fact I've seen people with PDAs sync wirelessly with them and download new operating systems into the guns, as well as pull statistics and sensor information out of them. So modifications of that nature really aren't an issue.
Again, these are not aimed at everyone but my personal observations on the discussion of pre-emptive nerfing without testing or concideration.
If you have the skill and desire to modify a 3PO into a killer the DE should be able to do it (hack the programing, hand it a blaster or install a concealed weapon - simple enough in pronciple). With chances of screwing the whole thing up (and I do mean the whole thing) and accepting its not designed as a combat droid, but is the last thing people will expect (there was actually a 'combat 3PO' in the EU)
This does create a compromise, I personally believe, for example, that the WED, LE and R series should have a repair module by default, but in any other chassis this is a jury rig operation (again with chance of screwing up, not designed for the task), however I also believe that there should be a few absolute limits on what can be put in what (no 10 item storage in an MSE for example) - bottom line though a DE with enough skill can try and modify the hell out of the existing chassis
I dont really have anything against combat chassis in SWG (because they could always have been salvaged and reprogrammed into 'safe droids' - the problem I forsee with this, that I dont see the devs addressing (except maybe with 'imperial crackdown'), is that the empire just wouldnt let its citizens run around with armoured killing machines (but as has already been pointed out, they seem to be ok letting them run around with rancors etc) and we'd be back at pet wars again with just droids instead of creatures
I'm also concerned that 'droid invasion' will concentrate solely on the combat aspects of droids and leave our other bugs, and any new non-combat droid functionaity left out
grrr.... edit...
2+ = medium & heavy combat droids
Next point...
Existing droids, utility type droids need to work but I don't want to see an R2 unit with a flamethrower built in for a little kick...
As for mixing and matching droid parts... that is totally unfeasable, you have a droid chassis that you put things into. You can add capabilities to a chassis but you can't start altering droid models that is a cool idea, but unrealistic. Why? Now instead of viewing 1 droid object you have to view 6 droid parts that can vary.
Sticking a LLC and a flamethrower or a Rocket Launcher on the BLL is cool... but that isn't what they are there for... we don't know what they are there for yet... but it isn't as a mobile heavy weapons platform...
Another idea would be to create droid skeletons that you put armor on and hand weapons... An assault droid with a grenader "personality chip"...give it anice set of composite with a flamethrower. Or a medical droid with a nice set of composite and a stim dispenser... personal combat healer... This intertwines DE, AS, WS, and Medics... These droids could walk around un-noticed... a spy... an assassin... whatever...
More ideas people... 
/bow
TheWoody wrote:
You bring up a lot of good points, D-man, and in truth we don't know what is going to happen.
I do. Just got my "Magic 8-ball" module schematic off E-Bay today. Woohoo!!
We may well see only some droids with combat functionality depending on what happens.
From what they have put forth, it sure does sound like they intend the changes to apply to "all" droid types. However, they do also mention "rules", so that might bode well for those that want there to be some sanity along with this release.
Here's the scenarios as I see it:
-Only combat droids will be given the ability to hold weapon modules, . Sadly this does include the protocol and the BLL I'm afraid. The evidence suggests the last two as protocols were recently given combat animations and BLLs were specifically mentioned by Thunderheart in the question-answer thread. But the reason for 'modules' is because the higher the level of droid engineer, the more powerful the weapon module you can make. I'm predicting 6 different modules (Level 1 through Level 6) as it seems to best fit in with our profession.
I agree with the possiblity of there being a Level 1-6 "weapon module" of some kind. It may also be that we'll see ranged vs. melee attack modules.
I'd have to think that they will not keep the modules relegated only to current "combat" droids, since that kind of defeats the purpose of making the modules happen in the first place.
The entire intent behind combat modules was to increase our possible combat droid setups and options in one fell swoop (by making any droid type into a possible "combat" droid).
The outcry over this announcement in the DE plan, so long ago, appears to have gone unheeded...as we all might have expected it would.
-Droids will be given a new module slot called the 'weapon module slot.' This is a third type of slot, just like we have module slots and armour module slots. In such case, at first reaction a list of droids we would like to see with the module slot and a list of those without would be somewhat useful.
This seems an excellent option and a good way to go.
However, in retrospect I feel this would be fruitless in the end anyway, unless only a few droids got this slot (I.E. the probot and DZ-70 are left off the list). The reason it would be fruitless is because the decisions have all long since been made or else they wouldn't be able to work on it now.
Well, we have no way to know/discuss any of this, since they won't actually give us any useful or practical information to discuss.
The timeline has been set and published, and all decisions seem to be following the main ideas in what was described in the first 'Plan' and follow-on statements by TH, as well as asmall conversation I had with one of the Devs on Ahazi.
The timeline and the planned changes aren't necessarily tied together, as best as I can tell. I'd have to think that there's still some amount of input/changes that are possible (albeit within the framework of the fundamental alterations they are considering).
Again, this is a situation where we can only shrug and await to take our medicine...since they won't actually give us valid/useful information on which to base our discussions of the upcoming (and apparently secret) changes.
-All droids will get combat modularity via a normal droid module. They will remove the combat ability from the probot (like the removed the medical ability from surgicals-only all that time ago). Course this means the probot is slightly nerfed as it loses a module slot, and a module slot will have to be added to the standard probot model. This or a combination of this and scenario two is the most likely event for the simple statement under "Droid Combat Functionality" in their 'in development' page: Combat Module ideas and basic rules for combat modules for all droids
This is also possible, I guess. I don't know if droids would have to "lose" a slot. They just wouldn't be able to be configured in quite the same way as they are now.
So, that R2 with 3 'service' modules would simply be the same R2, except with 2 installed service modules and one 'combat' module. Nothing would have to change in the schematic.
It makes sense that they might go this route, since it require little change to current schematics.
In all events, I think there is an underlying fact that I've started to realize is taking shape. People are complaining that we will be just another "Creature Handler" profession. I am now beginning to agree with half that comment. We are not another CH profession, we are the replacement.
Well....maybe. I'd have to think that we'll be closer to what BEs are (orwere designed to be).
It was spoken of in a Dev Q and A a few months back that they were unhappy with the creature explosion, and they would much prefer if droids filled that role as droids were more 'star wars' to them than creatures. Furthermore, droids are supposed to help anyone and everyone, as discussed to death in these forums and even in their design. The fact that anyone can program one if they desire would be a good example.
Hmmm...you may have hit upon something there.
What if some particular aspect of "combat" use in a non-combat droid were in some way tied to the owners ability to "Program" that ability?
I see this as a way to possible control the situation where people try to put T21 modules into MSE droids and the like.
For example....
There might be some rule/condition whereby a droid owner wouldn't be able to use the combat abilities of a droid, due to the fact that they would be unable to "Program" an attack command...or some such.
I'll have to think about that more and see if it might bear fruit.
In all events, we don't have the info to form up opinions at this time anyhow. I would suggest waiting till they were at least on Test Centre before making huge complaints about systems that may or may not already be in place.
Yea...this is my biggest 'beef' right now with the whole situation.
We're being asked to swallow the changes coming our way but we can't really discuss any of it intelligently, since we aren't being given useful, practical information on what's in our future.
If only....
Respectfully,
Say yesforutility to our current droids, say no to combat modules.
I will speak with my creditcard when they give me the ability to put a gun on R2 and C3PO.
(the pointer is already on the cancel button)
-Wornol, MDE
TK says: "We're being asked to swallow the changes coming our way but we can't really discuss any of it intelligently, since we aren't being given useful, practical information on what's in our future."
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I like to think that we're anticipating their hair brained ideas so we may stave them off before they're carved in granite. Who knows, maybeGreenmarine lurks in here holding a licked finger to the our mighty wind! (No flatulence jokes, please).
In any case, the last few posts have been very good on the discussion front. 
You have a point in there that I indeed did miss. The comparison between us and BEs. Was it not our last correspondant who described the plan in full as us becoming "A cross between CH and BE with more droids!" on the night that the big 'Plan' thread was released?
I don't think that we can stave off anything. If the Devs get into a mindset that they know what's best for us...then that is likely that.
However, I hesistate to point out how well that went when they released the creature/CH system the way it was for so long.
If they truly had their finger on the 'wand', they never would have allowed that imbalance to occur. Just think about how much derision and divisiveness it caused.
I really hope that they will actually DISCUSS the proposed changes with us and let us help them tweak the updates so that all players get the best possible outcome.
Based on past situations, I hold out little hope of that, however...
/bow
Respectfully,
Woody says: "You have a point in there that I indeed did miss. The comparison between us and BEs. Was it not our last correspondant who described the plan in full as us becoming "A cross between CH and BE with more droids!" on the night that the big 'Plan' thread was released?"
- - - - -
Perfect summary. To continue this analogy, I'm still hoping we won't have the DE equivalent of "Krayt DNA in the Gnort body". I'll continue to wonder about their plans for old 3PO. /tremble.
TheWoody wrote:
You have a point in there that I indeed did miss. The comparison between us and BEs. Was it not our last correspondant who described the plan in full as us becoming "A cross between CH and BE with more droids!" on the night that the big 'Plan' thread was released?
Indeed.
I'm beginning to think that it was no accident that Sintrosi stepped down when he did. True, he may have TOLD us that it was "real life" stuff that caused it but we can't forget that he knew things we do not.
That says a TON, no?
/bow
Respectfully,
Oh.........to the 1-star bandits trying to keep this thread down...
You don't understand what you're doing.
If you hate the "message" we discuss, step in and make it know like big boys and girls. Don't hide behind the anonymity of the rating system. That's weak.
If you thought that this thread would lead to DEs not being able to be "uber droid handlers", you're missing the point too.
Enjoy!
/bow
Respectfully,