Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Holo's new plan to really piss us off?
No DE should NOT be the Droid handler class. DE is an artisan class. The most profitable Artisan class is the Weaponsmith which cannot use most of his weapons.And the same logic could be applied to the weapon smith class. READ the directions and PULL the trigger - presto you can use the weapon. What makes a person have the ability to use one weapon over the other. WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE ALL WEAPONS. BUT we can't because................. CLASS BALANCE. Throw REALITY out the window. Its about CLASS BALANCE.
The gamemust haveBALANCE. With POWER comes BALANCE. You cannot eat your cake and have it to. If you want SUPER bots the only way you will have them is to have a Droid Handler class.
The droids that we can make now - are worthless in a "combat" sense. Probots were nerfed because of class balance and it will not go back. Time to move FORWARD. Lets make the profession viable with super battle droids (lvl 60). Lets have the ability to make money!
The lowdroid petsthat are in use now should stay that way. Let everyone have the ability to use them. Non combat droids should be useable by all.We are losing NOTHING and only gaining the ability to make more powerful droids!
-JediAvenger-
How much did they pay you to post that JediAvenger?
Why is it that those who obviously no nothing about the DE line pull the Weaponsmith excuse out their *edit*.
No other crafting class requires so many components from other crafting classes. DE's have to have Master Artsian. We also require components from Architects and Armorsmiths.
You talk about balance? Tell me how a DE, capable of controling powerful bots is unbalanced? We need 2 full master trees to build them leaving us 1 other skill tree. Hows that overpowered?
Lets pull some of your comparisons. Lets look at a CH. 1.5 skill trees needed. Unchallenged in PvM. Tell me how this balance thing works again?
So what if the DE line is under the Artsian tree. So what. You cant put DE's in a class like you can the other crafting classes. We are unique. Stop compairing!
There are a ton of droids craftable for others to use. Allowing a MDE to control 1 powerful pet only he/she can use is far from overpowered. Need i remind you that you can only have 1 droid out at a time?
Wake up.
With this new class, and this game being out for a few months, I see most sales going to newbies. As most people now have used up all their skill points, and not many will drop a skill, just to pick this up.
On the other hand, if the Devs "cough" make these new combat droids effective ingame, then we may see allot more drop certain XP for this class to get them.
Knowing soe, they'll add DH before they bother to add any new droids for them to use.
It sounds like a DH would be a copy of a CH, just with droids instead of animal pets.
You love how they come up with this crap 3 months after release to fix a class thats been broken since beta?
Err dang im sorry for that last post .Should not have blown up like that .After all this time waiting as a master DE for positive changes holo comes up with this thought.I guess I just couldnt handle the pressure after i saw some one supporting it.
(apologies for lenght - I think this issue is crucial to us)
Ok, I think it is now obvious there are two conflicting viewpoints: 1) The fictional reality of droids and droid usage in the SW Universe (5 movies) and Expanded SW Universe. 2) The SOE/EQ vision of how a profitable MMORPG should be run on a basis of payment=gameplay=experience=reward(power).
SOE: We get your problem: in the real SW universe: everyone can have droids.
The problem with making droids too useful or powerful is that currently every player in SWG can use any level of droid with any module type.
Meaning if a too powerful or useful droid was created it would have huge potential for exploiters and power-levelers. The two things SOE hates most because a) it unbalances gameplay for everybody and b) creates an easy way for a dishonest new player to experience all SWG offers in a month (less revenue for SOE) than an honest player would take (6 mos? A year? A lot more SOE revenue). There would then be huge pressure on honest players to also take advantage of a powerful droid exploit.
The mantra SOE learned from EQ don’t forget is the more you play/the more experience you gain/ the higher the level you attain/ the more powerful you become/court players who want to be the most powerful/ introduce enhancements and systems which invoke the desire to become more powerful/ they will pay more (over time) to gain experience to become more powerful/ SOE gets richer.
Therefore to fit within SOE’s vision of how an MMORPG should work – high level/powerful items (yes this would include droids) should be restricted to use by high level players.
Whether we like it or not SOE views us as just another weaponsmith class – (droid of smiting +3) and not everyone should be able to use it or own it unless they earned it through gameplay (paying SOE money to play).
Now we can argue that the price of a good weapon/droid should prevent a low level user from having access to one – but let’s face it this is an old EQ problem newbie players can log in and get 100k of plat from a buddy and armor/weapon up. Or have that same buddy trade them a high level weapon/armor for free. The only way to prevent this is of course is to tie usage to skill level – the economy alone cannot be trusted (in SOE opinion) to prevent abuse/exploits.
So what to do?
Plan A. Create a New Usage Class (Droid Handler) to tie usage to skill - Easy and “logical” in terms of SOE Gameplay –
From a Developer standpoint an attractive option since: a) they know that this works in preventing access to ALL players some of the more powerful weapons/items in the game; and b) adding a new Class is probably dead simple to implement (costing SOE less to make the change) since the game engine for SWG was probably built for ease of creating expansion packs (which would generally have new Classes in them) vs. a much harder implementation such as editing trees to create new certifications for droids. I get why the devs are pushing this.
Plan B. Droid Certification for All Classes
From a Developer standpoint extremely difficult to implement since decisions on where to put certificates (at what levels in Novice or Elites, or within which classes of Novices/Elites) to make it fair. And of course this is a costly little fix to implement.
One of the largest problems with droids is that they are multipurpose – customizable – it wreaks havoc with the SOE EQ logic that a ‘droid of smiting +3’ can also be a ‘droid of healing +4’. How do you certify that? (I’ll propose something later but I think the SOE team basically looked at droid customization and surmised that this would make it impossible to allow a certification system to be put in place – e.g. would it be fair that a commando allowed a Probot cert be allowed to also have a med module 5 in it, when doctors can only get Surgical Droid certification which can have a med module 5 but can’t attack).
Plan C. (my idea at a compromise) Certification for Controller Kits Which Unlock Droid Function
In dusting off my movie memory I recalled the inconsistency of droid control – where the entire droid army needed a controlling spaceship and specific character who controlled the panel (see the bridge scene on the Ep1 Trade Federation Droid Control ship where the droid army is deployed) – compared to the arena scene of Ep2 where it seemed no one (visible to us) was controlling the droids – they simply obeyed the commands of Dokku. The idea anyways of forcing the requirement of some type of controlling device did not seem “un-SW”. (Yes I still agree droids should be semi/autonomous).
Instead of certification for droids themselves, introduce certification for Controller Kits which allow droid radial menu options to become unlocked:
1) Advanced Combat Droid Controller Kit
Certificate Granted to: All Intermediate level Elite Combat Classes (Bounty Hunter, Carbineer, Combat Medic, Commando, Fencer, , Pistoleer, Pikeman, Ranger, Rifleman, Swordsman, Squad Leader, Teras Kasi), Granted to DE as soon as Kit can be made
Allows: ATTACK, PATROL and GUARD program functions to become unlocked from droid radial menus/conversation menus, UP TO THREE DROIDS OUT AT A TIME
2)Basic Combat Droid Controller Kit
Certificate Granted to: All Novice level Combat Classes (Brawler, Marksman, Scout) Granted to DE as soon as Kit can be made
Allows: ATTACK, PATROL and GUARD program functions to become unlocked from droid radial menus/conversation menus, single droid only out at a time
3) Crafting Droid Controller Kit
Certificate Granted to: All Elite Crafting Classes and Healing Classes
Allows: Crafting Modules in Droid to become active – schematics become available as does experimentation (all the benefits of the crafting station as long as Elite can utilize that station)
4) Medical Droid Controller Kit
Certificate Granted to: All Elite Healing Classes
Allows: Bonuses to Healing, when droid out healing outside city/camp (all the benefits of the med module)
Basic Modules do not require a Controller Kit, any droid can be bought or sold with these modules and they will work:
Storage
Data
Armor
(Repair)
(Power)
(Sensor)
Plan D? Other ideas? Anything I came up with seemed extreme – getting rid of customization and make droid fuction specifically tied to droid type/chasis – allowing a system of certification to be more reasonably set up.
Lets face it useful/powerful droids that will be of premium demand and profit for our profession will not be coming our way until there is a restrictive system in place preventing everyone from gaining and using high level/powerful droids.
I know others in the forum have posted ideas in the previously mentioned Thread: Execution. I hope that a number of options will be fairly evaluated by the Devs but my expectation is we will be force-fed a single solution.
If Droid Handler happens we can all prepare to have zero business for quite some time until there is a droid out there that will encourage players to take that skill tree and come to us for business. Hmmm and what about the glut of previously built droids in non-DH hands? Players will want to unload the droids if they can't use them and there will be a mass sales of used droids that can't be used to the very few that choose the DH tree. I see our ability to earn a DE living disappear for quite some time until the change irons out.
Shudder - a bad time to be a DE for sure.
Plan D. (continuing from above) after re-reading Holo's post - would be Rolling Droid Certs into the DE tree
Can't tell from his post if he means certs for ALL droids or just the combat droids.
Uhm... so our only market for selling those droids would be to other DEs who can also make them... making our potential for profit... what exactly??
I don't like his comment re: don't want droids to take over the world like creatures -- that doesn't bode well for us - it means expect droid usefullness/power to be extremely limited -- unless he is discussing the specifics of how the CH tree still allowed for insanely powerfull pets in the hands of novice CH players.
Alright. Introducing a new class to handle droids is ABSOLUTELY IDIOTIC! Now lets all be logical here. BE's can grow animals yes, it takes time and experience to learn how to grow the animal. They can know everything there is to know about the animal but that doesn't mean they can tame it. That is LOGICAL because creatures are very complex beings more so than droids. It would take someone who specializes in caring for animals to be able to tame it and have it as a pet.
But for Droids the idea came stright from the poo hole. Who seriously builds their computer and is too dumb to use it? Really now tell me? How can you in your right mind put together and program a complex computer system and NOT know how to use it? Yes it might take a little getting used to but YOU dreamed the idea of the system and YOU are the best person suited to use it.
So how could someone who just controls a computer system be better than the person who made it (unless the person who made it just doesn't care that much). Whoever makes it knows just about every little minor detail about the system because basically THEY MADE IT! Again they have a better understanding of the computers(droids) than anyone else who just controls them. If anything this new class should already exist...it's called the Droid Engineer class. As a last resort make this droid handler class an elite-elite profession, even though I think that this is still idiotic.
"Durrr I justspenttons of hours using my advancedexpertise making my droid...uhhh how do I use it?"
We haven't had really anything fixed, if you do not count fixes to stuff that already worked, since the game came out. My hope that this stuff will be fixed before too many people leave the game grows dim.
Plan E: Raleran0's idea, found at
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=21307.