Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Reconsidering DH/DC class: Why I am starting to be 'okay' with it...
TheRealTK421 wrote:
....if/when they decide to release a DC class.
The issue is not its existence...but how that existence is implemented.
Sorry...I guess I kind of played into this whole conspiracy thing of Sodan's with some weirdo wording.
Virtanis wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
....if/when they decide to release a DC class.
The issue is not its existence...but how that existence is implemented.
Mind clarifying that please TK?
What I meant to say there was:
If they decide that it is time to add DC to the game, I'll be okay with it now...if for no other reason that I want to see my clients get the higher-level droids. If that is how it is to be done (i.e. for technical reasons or they have already done a ton of work on this), I'll be happy to check out the info they put forth and add constructively to it.
The reason I said "if" is that I don't know what they are going to do. You don't think I do, too (like Sodan), do you?!?!
You two really need to stop this "He's the head of the DEA so he gets all kinds of special treatment" thing you're on...unless you're just razzin' me, in which case...
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
The reason I said "if" is that I don't know what they are going to do. You don't think I do, too (like Sodan), do you?!?!
You two really need to stop this "He's the head of the DEA so he gets all kinds of special treatment" thing you're on...unless you're just razzin' me, in which case...
TheRealTK421 wrote:
The continuity thing only goes so far, in my opinion. The issue to remember here is that this has to be a fun game, first and foremost.
Sorry...again, I have a bit of a hair trigger from the beat down I've been getting lately.
Virtanis wrote:
Oh, and while we're on topic of conspiracy theories, don't assume that just because someone asks for a clarification of your comments, that they're card carrying members of the "TK has inside information!" illuminati. I'm not.
The 1-starring continues...
/bow
Respectfully,
/bow
Lonkley wrote:
I agree, the biggest problem with DH was that we were told "we asked for it".
Actually...you're almost right. I think the bigger problem was that they didn't verify that it WAS what we were askingfor before they started committing development time and resources to it.
It's easy. "Measure twice, cut once."
Had theytaken a small bit of time to clarify whatthe community'sopinion was, we'd have avoided theentire mess. I promise.
Every person ive talked to in my guild about DH has been happy about it, and shut up when I say its a lame idea that makes me want to drop the profession. I've never had a client walk up to me and go "So when are those utility droids coming out?". It's always combat. combat. combat.
Yup. I remember a time many moons back when this WAS the'buzz' on the DE boards. It was allabout what combat droids or features we could get (since our clients were screaming for them).
I think TK is right, our clients do want droids,and whats more, for every other profession, changing templates is more common then changing powerups. They just do it at the drop of a dime, so they wouldnt care about having to pick up a new profession.
Yup. Especially those that have holo-grinded even once or twice will not likely bat an eyelash when they see their buddy with a shiny new Droideka. Right?
I'm not sure I would. I look forward to having one (or two...if we are lucky).
I still dont like DH. But given the choice between no DH and no droids, or a DH and you get new droids, well I guess there's not much choice.
Absolutely. I think that this is, in the long term, the best way to accept the future and move forward. If it's gonna happen...we should be helping them to get it right. I think that'd be more fun than the negativity we've had to endure recently.
If the dev's want us to get behind this idea, they must release the preliminary skill trees. If they were implementing the profession, they MUST have them, so lets see them so we have something real to talk about.
Well....I think that just having some info work with in aiding them to get it right would be best. If they want to do it (and may anyway), then we should try to step up to the plate and help it be as right as possible. Make lemonade from lemons, so to speak.
Respectfully,
it's a bit later than morning.... i want to find out what's going on damnit.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Ackis wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
I suddenly realized....my earlier vehemence against DH/DC as a way to get combat droids was all well and good for MY vision of how they should be added. But I hadn't been thinking of my clients. I had been selfishly wanting things to happen my way and my way, only. And that meant, no DH/DC class.
I find I've been hearing quite the opposite.
Well...I guess it takes all kinds. Some players think this is a good thing...and others, not so much.
In the interest of keeping my posts positive (I'm trying to, I really am) I've found that my customers have been against the DH/DC profession. I've taken a step back and not given my opinion to them, instead just relaying the posts from the forums on what's going to be happening.
The biggest comments I get are:
- Good, they won't be introducing another broken profession into the game then
And, ironically, at the same time.....they won't be introducing the higher-powered combat droids that SO many droid clients said they wanted. So...what do we do here?
Remember when we DEs used to yell and scream that we needed more/better combat droid options because our clients were begging for them so much? Well...they did their best to accomodate that within the confines of what was possible with the code.
The fact that we shot down the way they chose to add higher-level combat droids may say more about us than it does about them.
/bow
Most people want a real solution (from my conversations with clients) opposed to the bandaid approach another class is. I've been trying of late not to get hung up in the combat droids for all conversations, because I want to see the DE class as so much more than just combat. A reasonible approach to adding some combat droids into the game would be to up the limit to 15, but declare those droids as contraband. (combat droids after all are illegal in this time period) That would make things a lot more interesting.
As for saying that the devs have done what was possible with their code, I can't agree with taht statement one bit. What they did was they balanced CH and BE because of CH, and made droids stick with that idea. They've nerfed probots before, I don't see a reason why they cannot un-nerf them, speaking from a code sense.
- Does this mean I'll get utility droids now?
Maybe. Publish 8.
LOL, I'm not going to hold my breath.
And I agree with both of those comments. Why? Because the implementation of DC/DH does not fix the DE class. We'll end up in the end with two broken professions.
Yes...this is something of a concern. I don't think it has to be this way...but I can't really comment since I don't have all the facts from the Devs' side. Once we know more details, perhaps we'll be in a better place to see how this could all play out in our favor. Right now, we just don't know enough to really make that call...as best as I can see.
We have history to base our opinions on TK. That's the problem.
I've picked up BE and I'm having a blast with it. I won't keep it, however I'm having fun getting to master in it.
If that's the case, maybe you could suggest how the good stuff from BE could be lifted over to the DE side of things. I'm not a BE, so I can't say what is or is not better about it...but you could speak constructively from experience on how to make DEs better from what you've seen in BE.
It really, really would help I think.
Keep on bugging me about this. You have inter-server tells/mails to do this. I still consider myself too n00bish in the BE profession to write a fully informed opinion about it, and to give real suggestions. I did comment on this later in the post, but it was just touching the surface of it all. Once I learn more about BE, I'll do it, after running it by some BE peeps I know to make sure it's accuate.
IMO, I suggest you start a char on another server and spend a few hours getting to novice BE and then another few hours playing at one, just to see what it's like. That is a system I'd love to see for DE. You make a chassis, and then the chassis has a certain number of slots in it, which allow you to place many modules in it. (this is not taking account combat droids) Each module would raise the usage level of it, and there would be no cap at all on the droids. That means I can make a binary load lifter with 100 item storage, or a surgical droid with a medical rating of 200.
Wow...that would be cool. And...that's the kind of thing that I've always hoped we'd see in the DE class. I'd want to be able to have the possiblity of making that unique, nearly impossible to recreate 100 item BLL droid.
I've said before that we DEs don't enjoy the aspect of playing on the 'quality' field. Every droid made by any Master DE has potentially the exact same stats as the same droid made by any other Master DE.
That's not fun....it's...disheartening. If we can get a BE-like situation like you describe above, I'd be ecstatic.
I don't think this system would be that hard to implement actually. There is all the framework in place from the BE profession, and that it would need enough tweaks to make it unique. ie: BEs sample DNA, DEs have resources and loot from mobs (ie: like krayt tissue, but say uber droid parts from a droideka) to make their droids.
However, each chassis would be limited to: a) the types of modules and b) have a different cap. I know this sounds contradictory, I first say no caps, and then say each droid has a cap. Certain droids should be used for certain functionality.
Yes...I still believe that the chassis should (at least up to a point) relate to that droid's inherent functionality.
I also think if this idea was implemented, it should be one of those that is grandfathered to all previous droids. First a check should be added to determine the number of types of modules, second the level of those modules.
Respectfully,
Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 02-18-2004 11:57 AM
"It is my opinion that a new profession should be a unique, interestingaddition to the game that is not merely a copy or derivative of an existing class. There are already too manyprofessions in SWG that are similar with each other; I did not want to add to that problem. The Droid Commander profession would have needed a lot more development time than I had to spend in the schedule to ensure it was not simply a "metallic CH" profession. Finally, as mentioned before, it is my goal to ensure that all existing professions have their own unique, viable identity in SWG before thinking about adding new professions to the game."
-SWG-Runesabre, 02-03-04
The more i read the posts the more i realize that those discussions are useless and divide theDE board
everyone is talking about something no one knows exactly what it could be as no one want to share information about the "official" point of view.
I just dareeveryone to describe me exactly whatthe DEVwere going to do forthe DH tree. ( maybe Drashk used to have some info about it but i cannot see anyone else ... )
And i dare everyone to tell me how DEV are going to revamp the DE class...
I do not want any supposition just real quote from DEV posts. I do not want date or timeline all i want are simple fact, for exemple: the description of the abortedDH tree , what kind of utility droid will arrive ?, what will really be the combat module ? ...
If someone can do this i will carefully listen what he has to say about our profession, otherwise all we are saying here is dust in the wind ...
Ive lost the quote that inspred my reply here. (maby it was another thread(g))
But on the issue of differentiating droid and creature pets. I like that droids are unhealable during combat. For balance they can have better armor, or more 'HP's, as in intuitive they would.
I agree both that the modularity of droids should be preserved, And that different chassis should have different 'cap's (surgical droids could go to 120 medical or whatever while BLLs or whatever max at 90, Etc.) BLLs could max at 20(or whatever) storage, and allow architect craft stations and powwer cores as modules
{{and more than zero mods in plain and one mod in advancedBLL! What Was Who Thinking !}} {{{actually i can guess, FWIW. The BLLs have more HPs and better armor. I presume someone is worried that someone will put too many combat modules in it or somthing.}}}
More Cookies !
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HawkCormyr wrote:
The more i read the posts the more i realize that those discussions are useless and divide theDE board
everyone is talking about something no one knows exactly what it could be as no one want to share information about the "official" point of view.
I just dareeveryone to describe me exactly whatthe DEVwere going to do forthe DH tree. ( maybe Drashk used to have some info about it but i cannot see anyone else ... )
And i dare everyone to tell me how DEV are going to revamp the DE class...
I do not want any supposition just real quote from DEV posts. I do not want date or timeline all i want are simple fact, for exemple: the description of the abortedDH tree , what kind of utility droid will arrive ?, what will really be the combat module ? ...
If someone can do this i will carefully listen what he has to say about our profession, otherwise all we are saying here is dust in the wind ...
TH just post the reply to one of my question ( without knowing it ) just check the DEV Tracker