Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Proposal for Battle Droids and a new Profession
I must say, I like the class. A few problems with it:
- This should be an 'elite elite' profession, like the new urban designer. It builds off droid engineer and marksman. Why? Because you're not only going to command the droids in battle, you're going to maintain them as well. Or at least... in my opinion it is, you could I suppose work it to have a droid engineer look over the droids so you just use'em... Nah
- No other profession has a required item that can only be made by a different profession. So the command stations should be made by Droid Commander.
- Up to 10 droids??? With 40% resist, medium armour AND personal shields... That's too powerful, I'd think. Instead of 10 droids for the best station, have a variable total: 10 of the weakest droids (say, probots), or 3 droideka, or something like that. Same as Creature Handlers, except that since each droid is weaker than a creature pet, there will be more of them...
As a side note, my fiancee suggested another fun elite elite profession: Cyborg Designer. Shoots off Droid Engineer and Master Medic (or higher, not sure), and allows the person to add implants to a creature or PC... That'd be fun to have
Dorkl wrote:
I must say, I like the class. A few problems with it:
- This should be an 'elite elite' profession, like the new urban designer. It builds off droid engineer and marksman. Why? Because you're not only going to command the droids in battle, you're going to maintain them as well. Or at least... in my opinion it is, you could I suppose work it to have a droid engineer look over the droids so you just use'em... Nah
- No other profession has a required item that can only be made by a different profession. So the command stations should be made by Droid Commander.
- Up to 10 droids??? With 40% resist, medium armour AND personal shields... That's too powerful, I'd think. Instead of 10 droids for the best station, have a variable total: 10 of the weakest droids (say, probots), or 3 droideka, or something like that. Same as Creature Handlers, except that since each droid is weaker than a creature pet, there will be more of them...
As a side note, my fiancee suggested another fun elite elite profession: Cyborg Designer. Shoots off Droid Engineer and Master Medic (or higher, not sure), and allows the person to add implants to a creature or PC... That'd be fun to have
Thank you for the constructive feedback.
I myself am kinda torn on if the DC should be an elite-elite based off DE or a hybrid profession.
I do see your point on the command station being made by DC's. You're probably right on that.
The reason I went with 10 battle droids is because those are expendable and pretty weak compaired to a Super Battle droid or Droideka. If they die in battle they are gone and you have to buy another one from a DE. What I was going for was the ability to have lots of battle droids in battle without making it overpowering. I think the only way to really find the proper threshold would be to test it on the Test Center.
If you like the idea of a Droid Handler/commander then copy and paste this link and tell the devs yours opinions:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/submit_feedback.jsp?page=Submit%20Feedback
Select eitherfeedback on the Galactic Civil War or feedback on the Droid Engineer professions.
I am going to send them feedback on these suggestions.
zbus wrote:
Yes I saw that part but you have to understand me and alot of others dont want a DC class we want it in our current skill set of DE. And if 3 pets are good enough for CH then I guess its good enough for DE.
How about this compromise?
1.) New DC profession for those who want to command multiple droids in battle at the cost of it being an elite-elite or Hybrid profession but do not want to be a crafter.
2.) All other classes can call one utility droid plus one battle droid given that they have spent the appropriate amount of skill points to use that level of battle droid.
3.) Droid Engineers may keep 20 droids stored in the datapad and are allowed to call 5 utility droids plus two combat droids.
Plus what about IG-88? That thing gets no love. We should be able to make those and only bounty hunters like Boba Fett should be able to take those down.
Another suggestion would be to have every single ship (whenever the expansion pack gets released) be required to have at least one droid to manage it eg: R2, R3, R4, protocol, etc.
It's a lot more work for the developers, but remember: Droid Engineer is a crafting profession, first and foremost. Allowing Master DEs to have multiple droids out completely changes our profession's goal.
Just like Creature Handlers have Bio Engineers to craft them superior pets, while all the masses have simpler pets, it makes sense to have a droid-based pet handler. The two should not be identical aside from pet types, however, so here are some thoughts of mine, in no particular order:
- DCs are completely immobile once the station is placed. This includes that they cannot fire a shot in combat. They would get XP based on how much damage their droids do in a fight. Perhaps at high levels, instead of getting a station that allows the DC to control more pets, the station is another droid that follows the DC, allowing the DC to participate in combat herself. (Another option I thought of would be a cyborg implant as the most advanced profession, which would have a resource maintenance to pay or some such. But that would require a Cyborg Implanter type of profession, which I've been toying with but not seriously). The mobile station would control less droids than the best stationary station, but would have the obvious advantage of mobility...
- If it was possible, the DC would best be an elite-elite branching off both Squad Leader and Droid Engineer. Why? Well, it takes aspects of both, and combines them into a truly amazing profession. However, this would require far more skill points than are currently available, so this isn't likely... But it's a thought.
- Creature Handlers are dedicated to creating the best pets possible; they effectively use brute force to destroy their foes instead of tactics. I'm aware that's a simplification, but that's how I have generally noticed Creature Handlers going about their business. I'm not sure how to implement this, but DCs would have less brute force and more finess and tactics. The DC would have the option of using formations (oh, how formations could be used so beautifully! I can just imagine a row of Droideka steadily advancing, each spaced just enough from the others to avoid most splash damage...) with a large number of weaker droids (so not actually droideka, but it would be amazing), or a couple of heavier droids to pummel the foe. I'm aware Creature Handlers have a similar option of more, weaker pets versus one or two very powerful pets; as I said, I'm not sure how it would be implemented, but tactics should play a much larger role with the DC.
- Several of the Star Wars books mention Imperial probe droid pickets, where a number of probots would be arrayed to control an area. This would effectively be an NPC Droid Commander. While I'm Imperial myself, it would be a fascinating turn to go up against such a picket in a Rebel faction mission...
I had other thoughts, but didn't write them down, and so they're lost. I would love for this to be implemented. It would round out the droid aspect of SWG, and significantly enhance theStar Wars feel.
Sorry if that sounds bitter, but I am getting a little bitter about this droid handler/droid commander nonsense. It seems based on the CH/BE issue (that in and of itself is silly, but I won't address that here and now).
Adding another profession to repair a preceived issue (no combat droids) with a profession that is not functioning fully is not a good idea for the following reasons:
1. it is usually easier to simply fix the broken class than it is to add another potentially broken class. Adding something new to the mix and whatever is added might be worthless, overpowered, or so completely dependant on a parent class that they may be worthless.
2. Droids are not like creatures - they are programed to behave.
3. Those DE that believe we are simply an artisan class and not a combat class are mistaken, CH isn't a combat class either, I don't care what anyone says - YOU GET NO COMBAT EXP LOOTING CORPSES! If a DE finds it somehow distasteful to have more droids out, or more droids in storage, or droids that can actually fight, they ought to simply NOT USE THEM.
The easiest fix is simply to
1. fix the numbers on the Probot so it can fight as well as a non-CH pet.
2. Add a few combat droids, not a huge number but enough to add some variety. a tank-bot, a gunboat-type bot, a quick light support fighter bot... etc. I don't think I need to belabor this one.
3. Add one or two to the droids DE can have out, a repair module is a little silly since you can't even repair your own droids.
4. Add a few droids in storage, the five limit for DE at master becomes something of a stupid limit in light of the sheer number of droids we can make.
Alanbane wrote:
Imador you ought to work for SOE, you'd fit right in. Lets not simply repair what is broken right now, lets add some more things.
Sorry if that sounds bitter, but I am getting a little bitter about this droid handler/droid commander nonsense. It seems based on the CH/BE issue (that in and of itself is silly, but I won't address that here and now).
Adding another profession to repair a preceived issue (no combat droids) with a profession that is not functioning fully is not a good idea for the following reasons:
1. it is usually easier to simply fix the broken class than it is to add another potentially broken class. Adding something new to the mix and whatever is added might be worthless, overpowered, or so completely dependant on a parent class that they may be worthless.
2. Droids are not like creatures - they are programed to behave.
3. Those DE that believe we are simply an artisan class and not a combat class are mistaken, CH isn't a combat class either, I don't care what anyone says - YOU GET NO COMBAT EXP LOOTING CORPSES! If a DE finds it somehow distasteful to have more droids out, or more droids in storage, or droids that can actually fight, they ought to simply NOT USE THEM.
The easiest fix is simply to
1. fix the numbers on the Probot so it can fight as well as a non-CH pet.
2. Add a few combat droids, not a huge number but enough to add some variety. a tank-bot, a gunboat-type bot, a quick light support fighter bot... etc. I don't think I need to belabor this one.
3. Add one or two to the droids DE can have out, a repair module is a little silly since you can't even repair your own droids.
4. Add a few droids in storage, the five limit for DE at master becomes something of a stupid limit in light of the sheer number of droids we can make.
Here's a copy of a message I posted in the discussions forum earlier today. Using the old droids are programmed to behave line to convince yourself that DE is a combat profession is silly. The only reason for a droid handler class is for anyone who wants to use more than one active combat droid at once. You think people are screaming now about non-ch's being able to use lvl 15 and under pets and CHers in general, just see what happens if DE's are able to use more than one combat droid at once when no one else can.
I've never claimed that adding a DH class to the game would solve the issues with CH and the existing problems with the DE class. I will be the first to say that there are core DE class problems which need to be addressed first. Adding a new class is something that would take months to implement, but I do believe that it's one that could be a lot of fun for people that want to do that.
Here are just some of the things that I think should happen.
1. Wipe the language skills. Make languages actually hard to learn, maybe even with a cap of say 3 or 4 you could learn. Make the protocol droid useful.
2. Allow the BLL to retrieve resources from harvesters.
3. Either create a new droid or change the probot to be a scouting type droid for resource spots. Also let it be used as a faction oriented scouting droid to alert the owner of an enemy base.
4. Combat droids. They need to be implemented with a cert system that anyone can use.
5. Allow DE's to store at least 20 stored droids in their datapad and allow them to call 5 non-combat droids at once.
6. Implement a DH class for people who want to specialize in using battle droids.
Imador wrote:Here's a copy of a message I posted in the discussions forum earlier today. Using the old droids are programmed to behave line to convince yourself that DE is a combat profession is silly. The only reason for a droid handler class is for anyone who wants to use more than one active combat droid at once. You think people are screaming now about non-ch's being able to use lvl 15 and under pets and CHers in general, just see what happens if DE's are able to use more than one combat droid at once when no one else can.
I've never claimed that adding a DH class to the game would solve the issues with CH and the existing problems with the DE class. I will be the first to say that there are core DE class problems which need to be addressed first. Adding a new class is something that would take months to implement, but I do believe that it's one that could be a lot of fun for people that want to do that.
Here are just some of the things that I think should happen.
1. Wipe the language skills. Make languages actually hard to learn, maybe even with a cap of say 3 or 4 you could learn. Make the protocol droid useful.
2. Allow the BLL to retrieve resources from harvesters.
3. Either create a new droid or change the probot to be a scouting type droid for resource spots. Also let it be used as a faction oriented scouting droid to alert the owner of an enemy base.
4. Combat droids. They need to be implemented with a cert system that anyone can use.
5. Allow DE's to store at least 20 stored droids in their datapad and allow them to call 5 non-combat droids at once.
6. Implement a DH class for people who want to specialize in using battle droids.
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It seems there are a few things we agree on, that is encouraging, however...
1. I haven't claimed DE are a "combat class" and droid programmed thought won't make us a combat class either, I was responding to the oft claimed "CH is a combat class and DE is artisan, non-combat class and should never be able to fight" argument I often see. Enabling Master DE to become as involved in the game and travel to similar places as a Master CH wouldn't make DE a combat profession. DE ought to be a crafting pet class, as opposed to a CH as a scouting pet class. Both pets should store or fight aimlessly when their masters are dead. Both should be very vulnerable to a player combat class (any elite or hybrid combat class).
2. I don't think people are screaming about the fact that non-CH get one and Master CH get three pets issue, at least it isn't framed in the way you are framing it. I don't think people are as upset about Master CH getting 3 creatures as they may be that non-CH get one and as a result everyone has a non-CH pet.
3. I generally like your other suggestions, though I suspect wookie players will be really angry if the devs change the languages. Though in my opinion, wookies ought to either own a protocol droid translater or go through the trouble of training their friends in their language.
4. Adding a new profession isn't an answer, it is opening a new can of worms when the old can of worms is bad enough.
Just because I like to stir up trouble....especially when its so obvious....
Imador is using his and "his friends" account to give his posts all 5 stars and 1 starring anyone who disagrees with him. Its pretty obvious by his accidently posting on "his friends" account...
LOL
and just say no to a droid handler profession. Count me as one who would pack up and close shop if this happens.