Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: (Unofficial)Discussion: Hand-crafting vs. Factory-crafting brainstorm ideas
Yup. Already thought of both of those counter-points. But the point of posting them was to place them here where others could see it was well. The other suggestion would be a resource sink, in having the need to turn in X amount of one resource type, however it would fall under the same category as a money sink. All in All, some sort of system that would work with a random CIC 'unlock' during crafting looks to be the best choice, but asI said earlier, we need to have more then just the one possible idea on the table, for the proposal to even make it out the door for some people.I look at it this way, themore point/counter-point debates that we have now, more someone later on down the line will be able to look at the entire proposal and say 'Hey, looks like they covered my concern.'
Straker_Atrella wrote:
I see where your going with different options for how to get them, options are good, but here are some other problems.
Ap is basically unlimited and a joke. If somebody wants AP, all they need to do is teach somebody Ranged support 1 or another skill over and over again. At the cost of 300 combat xp, that is cheap for 20 AP. The whole AP system needs a revam, but that's another topic.
The credit idea is a decent money sink, yet that would still mostly help the people with a lot of money already. Part of this idea is to get the little guys a little more business.
Jenden wrote:
Here's an idea for a cost. Say first of all that you get these CIC's from some form of amazing success tied in with complexity or something on a hand crafted item. Now, it gives you the option of dissassembling the item to learn from what happened (so you lose this amazing success and all the parts/resources required to make the item) or to continue making the item (and lose the CIC).
I do believe that this would work in the CIC outlined system, much better then anything that has been suggested so far, as a form of 'cost'.
A slight twist to this would be that instead of it being tied to the complexity of the item, it could be tied to the final experimentation point being spent. Out of every X Amazing successes, using the final experimentation point, the option to disassemble the crafted item and gain a CIC pops up. One out of 10 or 20 would be a great ratio to start with, since achieving an Amazing success on the final experimentation point on any crafted item is 'rare'.
The only problem that I could see with this suggestion is how Force Sensitive crafting would have an overall effect on the Amazing success rate. Then again, it could actually make being a Force Sensitive crafter be worth something....
Drashk wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:Drashk, your not refering to the "crafting insight bonus" credits are you? Those easily transfer over to all professions, in fact you offered the groundwork on what the bonuses could be.Nope, I was refering to the 'replace' 'recycle' aspects of what was being commented on. Majority of the those ideas are too focused on Droid Crafting, or other professions that use more subcomponents. The orginal intent of this whole discussion, was inspired by a sort of Crafting Revamp suggestion made by the Correspondents at the Summit. Anything that we touch upon should be focused at being useful to all crafting professions, and not just our own.
didn't realize we had an official and unofficial thread going. Let's think bigger though.
Message Edited by Snikrop on 09-16-2004 01:49 PM
ArveMennderchukk wrote:
Are you a moron?
No. why do you ask? The only thing I forgot is that the db is gonna need to store the crafter who made the item too. But that's a minor difference, and doesn't impact anything I said. there is no question that the amount of storage required to store all the information for each serial number in the game is at least 2X what it needs to be if a reference to each item that was used to craft it is also included. i can't see any point of doing that. if you can get all the information you actually need to fit in N megabytes of space, why would you design it so that it takes more than 2*N that amount of space unless you need to?
In any case, i'm willing to drop this point. It isn't the least bit relevant.
Message Edited by Malitevv on 09-16-2004 01:08 AM
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Which brings up another reason these MUST be tradeable. Look at Chef for example, it doesn't make sense for them to be hand crafting much at all. Who wants hand crafted Brandy? Food works best crated. So their chance of getting CIC's from crafting would be lower then other professions that can conceivably hand craft. Yet if they are tradeable, Chef doesn't get left out of the new system entierely. As a DE, I could give a couple of my CIC's to get a really awesome batch of Bespin Port for example.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Drashk, I'm not disagreeing to disagree, yet your Amazing sucess on the exp could apply to ANYTHING, Advanced Droid Frame units or Gungen heads for example. For this to work correctly across the board, the complexity values would need to be set (for each profession,) at a point above sub-componants at a level where more finished crafting takes place.
Which brings up another reason these MUST be tradeable. Look at Chef for example, it doesn't make sense for them to be hand crafting much at all. Who wants hand crafted Brandy? Food works best crated. So their chance of getting CIC's from crafting would be lower then other professions that can conceivably hand craft. Yet if they are tradeable, Chef doesn't get left out of the new system entierely. As a DE, I could give a couple of my CIC's to get a really awesome batch of Bespin Port for example.
Then how about the CICs only applying to 'flagged' craftable items, such as the only the items where a bonus could be applied. If the only the components that actually effect the stats of a crafted item were inlvolved, or the final build of a product, wouldn't this also help to address the issue with Chefs as well?
I think that it would be easier to flag certain items, over having a set complexity level for each profession due to the major imbalances that it would create in many professions. I'll site Weaponsmith for instance.
An Acid Stream Launcher, which is a Master Weaponsmith schematic, has a complexity of 50.A Power Hammer, which is also a Master Weaponsmith schematic, has a complexity fo 30. A Heavy Warhead Mechanism, which is available at 0020 Weaponsmith, has a complextity of 40. A Stun Baton, which is available at 4000 Weaponsmith, has a complexity of 20.
Now let us look at Tailor.
An Immense Gemstone Necklace, which is a Master Tailor schematic, hasa complexity of 25. A Military Travel Pack, which is a Novice Tailor schematic, has a complexity of 23.
As you can see, Droid Engineer appears to be one of the few crafting professions where schematic complexity is 'balanced'.
If they are tradable, but the cap on how many an individual player can have is rather low, they'll still be considerably different than loot drops. It's probably end up being more like the FP trading market that smugglers deal in, I think. Unless it is actually possible to offer CICs up on a vendor.
Jenden wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Which brings up another reason these MUST be tradeable. Look at Chef for example, it doesn't make sense for them to be hand crafting much at all. Who wants hand crafted Brandy? Food works best crated. So their chance of getting CIC's from crafting would be lower then other professions that can conceivably hand craft. Yet if they are tradeable, Chef doesn't get left out of the new system entierely. As a DE, I could give a couple of my CIC's to get a really awesome batch of Bespin Port for example.
Yea, I see what you mean. I hate making them tradeable, since that makes them no better than loot drops, but otherwise you're screwing over chef's (I can't think of anyone else that deals only in factory crates). The only thing I can think of as a compromise is add a bonus to the chance for chef's to get them, try to even things out that way. Of coarse, then you get chef's popping them out like mad by hand crafting a bunch of stuff...
Drashk wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Drashk, I'm not disagreeing to disagree, yet your Amazing sucess on the exp could apply to ANYTHING, Advanced Droid Frame units or Gungen heads for example. For this to work correctly across the board, the complexity values would need to be set (for each profession,) at a point above sub-componants at a level where more finished crafting takes place.
Which brings up another reason these MUST be tradeable. Look at Chef for example, it doesn't make sense for them to be hand crafting much at all. Who wants hand crafted Brandy? Food works best crated. So their chance of getting CIC's from crafting would be lower then other professions that can conceivably hand craft. Yet if they are tradeable, Chef doesn't get left out of the new system entierely. As a DE, I could give a couple of my CIC's to get a really awesome batch of Bespin Port for example.
Then how about the CICs only applying to 'flagged' craftable items, such as the only the items where a bonus could be applied. If the only the components that actually effect the stats of a crafted item were inlvolved, or the final build of a product, wouldn't this also help to address the issue with Chefs as well?
I think that it would be easier to flag certain items, over having a set complexity level for each profession due to the major imbalances that it would create in many professions. I'll site Weaponsmith for instance.
An Acid Stream Launcher, which is a Master Weaponsmith schematic, has a complexity of 50.A Power Hammer, which is also a Master Weaponsmith schematic, has a complexity fo 30. A Heavy Warhead Mechanism, which is available at 0020 Weaponsmith, has a complextity of 40. A Stun Baton, which is available at 4000 Weaponsmith, has a complexity of 20.
Now let us look at Tailor.
An Immense Gemstone Necklace, which is a Master Tailor schematic, hasa complexity of 25. A Military Travel Pack, which is a Novice Tailor schematic, has a complexity of 23.
As you can see, Droid Engineer appears to be one of the few crafting professions where schematic complexity is 'balanced'.