Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
Lonkley wrote:
and thats the crux of the problem. Patch 7/8 is ours, after that. Nothing. (Unless the userbase gets up in arms and asks for a droid. which I somehow doubt it). So you need to look at it like this, Patch 7/8 and nothing else for 2004. (2005 is debatable). Its been state very clearly that 2004 has been planned and theres no other time. Though I would hope Space would add something, though I doubt it will be out in 2004, we'll see what they say at E3.
Kollos wrote:
I'm sure someone will dredge that quote up some time in the future and bite me in the ass with it.
Kollos wrote:
It was stated very clearly that they were going to implement Certs. Last time I checked we didn't have them. It was stated very clearly that there was going to be a new Droid Handler profession. I haven't found the trainer for it yet. It was stated very clearly that we were getting new combat droids in January (patch 6) and February (patch 7). Nope and nope.
Very different because thats them saying they are going to DO something.
This is the devs saying they are NOT going to do something. Much more believable, the devs have exceled at not doing things thus far and have a very good track record.
Just curious though, at what age did you stop leaving cookies out for santa?
ok, to be fair. you have a point.a very shaky point thatis a small puff of wind from blowing into oblivion, but a point nevertheless.
Message Edited by Lonkley on 03-10-2004 11:42 PM
Kollos wrote:
<snip>
You know what "not technically feasible" really means in programmer-speak? "I don't feel like doing that right now." It's a computer program. Virtually anything is "technically feasible." Some things just require more work than others.
I'm sure someone will dredge that quote up some time in the future and bite me in the ass with it.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
I guess what I am trying to say is that for all the wishing in the world, if we don't get behindSodan's proposal with one voice (and yes it requires compromise from everyone) then we will be getting nothing more than whats slated for Pub 7/8until many, many, moons have passed.
I would urge all strong minded individuals to consider taking a major time out at this point, before any Devs reading this conclude wrongly that DE's still dont know what they generally want.
Yeah, I think you're right on the money here. Also, its important to lay off the devs too. Have you ever wanted to do something nice for someone who is berating you? Heck, even if you screwed them over its hard to make amends if there's too high a volume on the other end.
I think the DE/Dev relationship is a victim of a series of unfortunate events and misunderstandings. If only they had previewed us on their DH plans. If only we hadn't roasted them as we did. Wouldn't surprise me if they were truly jazzed about their ideas for cool droids, even if we thought DH was no good. So we have two groups who want new and cool droids and an awesome DE profession in the game. Seems like apart from past misunderstandings we share a common goal.
I think we've made some progress on our end in toning down the bile and drawing blueprints for a better DE tomorrow in accordance with their design specs. It'd obviously be great if they made the plan or a variant of it happen.
You can see where their chain has been yanked before. They already hit the brakes once before. The difference now, is that the community is behind a plan that takes into account the balance issues and uniqueness issues they have raised. All DE camps are unified,with a duly noted dissent. We're not saying "certs/free checkers for all", we're saying Hybrid DE, in a way that's balanced, creates a market and brings in those cool droids you worked on so hard. Roger Roger?
Lonkley wrote:
Kollos wrote:
It was stated very clearly that they were going to implement Certs. Last time I checked we didn't have them. It was stated very clearly that there was going to be a new Droid Handler profession. I haven't found the trainer for it yet. It was stated very clearly that we were getting new combat droids in January (patch 6) and February (patch 7). Nope and nope.
Very different because thats them saying they are going to DO something.
This is the devs saying they are NOT going to do something. Much more believable, the devs have exceled at not doing things thus far and have a very good track record.
Just curious though, at what age did you stop leaving cookies out for santa?
ok, to be fair. you have a point.a very shaky point thatis a small puff of wind from blowing into oblivion, but a point nevertheless.
See my previous point.
Kollos wrote:
Lonkley wrote:
Kollos wrote:
It was stated very clearly that they were going to implement Certs. Last time I checked we didn't have them. It was stated very clearly that there was going to be a new Droid Handler profession. I haven't found the trainer for it yet. It was stated very clearly that we were getting new combat droids in January (patch 6) and February (patch 7). Nope and nope.
Very different because thats them saying they are going to DO something.
This is the devs saying they are NOT going to do something. Much more believable, the devs have exceled at not doing things thus far and have a very good track record.
Just curious though, at what age did you stop leaving cookies out for santa?
ok, to be fair. you have a point.a very shaky point thatis a small puff of wind from blowing into oblivion, but a point nevertheless.
An excellent point, Lonkley.
Why do Kollos and I keep getting one-star bombed.Grrrrrrr!
They're opinions people, if you don't want to hear them, move to Syria. Besides that, my last post was supportive.
If I figure out what 3-year-old is doing it, I am going to one-star everything you ever posted...STOP IT!
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
I guess what I am trying to say is that for all the wishing in the world, if we don't get behindSodan's proposal with one voice (and yes it requires compromise from everyone) then we will be getting nothing more than whats slated for Pub 7/8until many, many, moons have passed.
Call me a pessimist, Shian, but I believe it's too late for patch 8. (It's clearly too late for patch 7, right?) This is the main reason I really don't care that much about this plan - it's not going to happen in the time frame you're hoping for if for no other reason than because it would be yet another about face for the Devs. They're currently geared up to create new utility for Droids in patch 8, not to re-write (and re-balance) the profession as a hybrid. I think we were incredibly lucky to get DH yanked out of patch 8, and now you're asking them to dramatically change courses once again?
Why can't we let them focus on making patch 8 better instead of side-tracking them once again?
I would urge all strong minded individuals to consider taking a major time out at this point, before any Devs reading this conclude wrongly that DE's still dont know what they generally want.
Well, we don't. And we never will if what you mean by that is that there's 100% agreement about a plan.
I don't appreciate the attempts at censorship, either. Some of us don't like this plan, but you want us to be quiet so that it can be implemented anyway? You want us to stand quietly aside while the profession is ruined? Funny, but I can't imagine that you'd do that if the roles were reversed.
You can see where their chain has been yanked before. They already hit the brakes once before. The difference now, is that the community is behind a plan that takes into account the balance issues and uniqueness issues they have raised. All DE camps are unified,with a duly noted dissent. We're not saying "certs/free checkers for all", we're saying Hybrid DE, in a way that's balanced, creates a market and brings in those cool droids you worked on so hard. Roger Roger?
That's not a difference, Sodan. The community has been behind plans before that took into account balance and all the various other issues, yet the Devs haven't implemented any of them, either. This plan isn't special in that regard.
Seriously... stop mischaracterizing what's going on here. The DE camps are not all unified. At best, you've beaten grudging acceptance out of a few people because you've managed to verbally bludgeon them into believing that this is our only chance. It's not our only chance, and even if it were it's a step in the wrong direction for the profession. Just because it's the flavor of the month doesn't make it any more right than anyof the previous flavors of the month.
We don't have all of the information about patch 8 yet. The information we do have was preliminary - it was given to us before patch 7 was even on Test Center. Instead of throwing yet another wrench into the process, why not direct this effort at supporting and fleshing out the Devs' plan for patch 8? The more you push for radical changes like this, the less likely it is that we'll even get all of the bug fixes we need - changes like this proposal only distract the development effort.
You guys complain that I nay-say everything you suggest, but that's not true. There's only one thing I fight against, and that's adding combat capabilities to Droid Engineer that aren't also added to the other pure crafting professions. As long as you guys keep pushing for that one thing, then yes I'm going to keep fighting against you. Making Droid Engineer a hybrid is not the best answer to the problems we have as a profession. It's not even the best way to get higher level combat droids into the game.
This plan isn't a compromise, it's a capitulation. It's a desperation attempt operating under the theory that something, ANYTHING, is better than nothing. Sorry, but I don't believe that.
Kollos wrote:
This plan isn't a compromise, it's a capitulation. It's a desperation attempt operating under the theory that something, ANYTHING, is better than nothing. Sorry, but I don't believe that.
Message Edited by Virtanis on 03-11-2004 11:58 AM
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
See my previous point.
I know, but its soooo easy.
To be honest, I have a great deal of respect for the devs. Ive said repeatedly that I think Runesabre has changed things 100x for the better since taking over. But there's also a great deal that leaves you just scratching your head. So yeah, there's a bit of jeckyl and hide in me going back and forth from day to day. Im trying to be better, really...
Besides, just trying to cheer up poor Kollos 
Message Edited by Lonkley on 03-11-2004 01:06 PM
Oh look, another high-and-mighty flame from Shian the Imperious.
Give it a rest.
As usual, it's okay for you and others to constantly produce the same tired arguments over and over, but if anyone speaks against you it is some sort of crime against humanity. If anyone actively provokes strife, it is you.
If you want to see a bully, take a look in a mirror. You're the one who starts thename calling and verbal abuse every time things don't go your way. You're so transparent it's pathetic.