Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Noone is saying ONLY DEs should have combat droids !!!

EricTheGreat
Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:26 pm
#27

I stand corrected.


/cry


But that sounds like something else the devs need to change, if someone with no(if you really have absolutely none)combat skills can take on something that has 5k ham, 30-40% resists, and hits for 300 damage with a probot.




Kenner Aldric
~Deviancy At Its Best~
BH/Pistoleer Cowboy Extrodinaire, Recovering Old Timer MDE Spice Addict

TheRealTK421
Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:36 pm
#28






Jenden wrote:

I'm arguing that DE's shouldn't have DE-only droids, as we are not a combat class.

Jenden morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas


Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.






Jenden,

With all due respect, I am also a Master DE (in Ahazi). I want to have MDE-only combat droids.

Why?

If for no other reason than to encourage other DEs to get to the top (if they are interested in 'Combat DE', that is).

If you don't like the idea of an MDE-only combat droid, then don't make/use one. However, don't prevent the many others of us that DO want that option to have it available to us. The number seems quite large, best as I can tell.


/bow

Respectfully,




TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."


Grimjakk
Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:44 pm
#29






Jenden wrote:





Grimjakk wrote:

So you're arguing that DE's shouldn't have ANY general-sales combat droids?


What we should be asking to be balanced against are the single faction pets thatare available to any covert, but at a lower level, because of the lack of PvP risk associated with being able to use them covert or neutral. ADV Probot is CL 16 with Medium armor and 40% resists across the board. Against any non-armor piercing opponent it's ability to absorb damagecompares nicely to low-level faction pets with 5 times it's HAM.


I'm not talking ATST here... but a general purpose combat droid that compares with a Stormtrooper isn't out of line, considering that everyone who wants to faction has access to something somewhere in that neighborhood already. (Personally, I think the Trade Confederation combat droid model would be ideal for this puppy.)


MDE only pets should becomparable to MCH pets... tho' at a lower level due to the fact that we can always build another... they usually have to find theirs in the wild.






No, I'm arguing that DE's shouldn't have DE-only droids, as we are not a combat class.


Jenden morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas


Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.







One thing I have to point out, and I'm probably guilty of it myself, is that Droid Engineer isn't a "class". Its a profession... a line of skills that take, at minimum, 92 points to master, leaving 158 points free to be spent on other profession lines. Your argument seems to be based on a view of all DE's as a "class" ofnon-combatants and that's just fundamentally untrue.


CH has no weapon skills inherent in its skill line... does that make all CH's non-combatants?


And before you say that their pets are their weapons... wouldn't our DE-only droids be fulfilling the same function for us?




Grimjakk Ghostripper / Master Bounty Hunter - Sunrunner
Where DEATH has no price, LIFE has no value.
"You're no Jedi. You're just someone with a fancy sword and a few parlor tricks."
Sodan-droiddreamer
Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:02 pm
#30






Eutock wrote:

So, the whole DE-only combatdroids arguementboils down to DE's having a Droideka that's, what, maybe 15% more powerful than everyone else's? Now that's a hoot worth getting a Wookie hernia over, heh.





It's starting to look that wat, Eutock.


1. No one wants DE-only droids to be the only new droids we get. Likewise, few like the idea of combat modules for non-combat droids like Protocol Droids ("I'm programmed for etiquette, not combat" -- C3P0, Ep2.)


2. Majority want new combat droids that we can sell


3. Majority believe there should be some sort ofgame balancing limit on new and powerful droids with certs being the most common --but not the only --solution proposed. The recent CH/creature nerf suggests that the devs are leaning toward certs for game balance so we might as well warm up to the idea, or suggest a reasonable alternative


4. Many want DE-only combat droids that are "cool" or "special" as a badge of our accomplishments. Some believe these should be as powerful as the best CH pet, others believe they should just have a special look or chasis, others believe they should have slightly better stats. (My proposal is Droidekas that we can sell, and Droideka AvdancedMaster DE-onlymodels that are moderately better, perhaps with Shield generators). Many don't like the idea of a separate chassis or super uber droid for fear of DE dabblers;others, in turn, question those who prefer to keep DEnumbersdown.And, finally,a few hold outs insist that Droid Engineers only have access to the droids everyone else can use.




Sodan Droiddreamer (GEGN)
Sodan's Exotic Droidgarten - In Bohemian Grove (Geigen Shuttle), Tatooine (6156 7275)
DaHumAn
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:00 am
#31

mmmm dood, my probot tanks better than my gurrek................. i deal most the damage, not my pets.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





MDE, my old nightmare, it will haunt me forever.
Jenden
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:03 am
#32






Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:


/agree


Without getting into the CL lvls discussed by Jenden and Co., I agree with this statement. Folks we can hash out CL elsewhere, how many agree with Droid-Creator's proposal? (Then we can argue CL, heh)







Ok, I was just using CL's as a point of reference to people, but the facts still remain. Here's an example, say I have a probot at the current levels, which everyone is complaining is way to weak. that probot, combined with no combat skills whatsoever allows me to take down mobs that normally you'd need to be around the level of master marksman to take (I've run tests, I've done this, trust me on it). Now, if your proposing better combat droids to sell to master/elite professions, then even better combat droids for MDE only, MDE's will have about the equivalent of 2 elite profession, while only paying the cost for 1 (and a cheaper one skill point wise at that). I don't see how this doesn't screw up the game balance. If you want something special that only MDE's get, give us the ability to heal droids damage similar to medics. It would make you invaluable in combat and have the least effect on the balance of the game (as well as making droids potentially more useful, replacing creatures).


Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas


Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.




Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

DaHumAn
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:07 am
#33

+ so what if n00bs can kill stronger things? the amount of combat xp or weapon xp wont make any difference at all since the pet did all the damage. it would help with harder missions with pets who can somewhat tank, hence more money which i can see nothing wrong with since mission paymentscap out at certain payments and harder missions take longer to do which evens it out anyways. 160 max damage on gurreks mean nothing, nothing! at lower lvls all it does is taking away ur xp, at higher lvls it's totally worthless. the way i see it, it's already pretty well balanced. people who complain really didn't think too much about the true balance of gameplay if you ask me.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





MDE, my old nightmare, it will haunt me forever.
Jenden
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:10 am
#34






DaHumAn wrote:
+ so what if n00bs can kill stronger things? the amount of combat xp or weapon xp wont make any difference at all since the pet did all the damage. it would help with harder missions with pets who can somewhat tank, hence more money which i can see nothing wrong with since mission paymentscap out at certain payments and harder missions take longer to do which evens it out anyways. 160 max damage on gurreks mean nothing, nothing! at lower lvls all it does is taking away ur xp, at higher lvls it's totally worthless. the way i see it, it's already pretty well balanced. people who complain really didn't think too much about the true balance of gameplay if you ask me.





The problem is the whole purpose of the game is building up, working your way through it. Allowing pets that artificially raise your "level" is an imbalance to that system. If you don't think so, then why are the devs bringing the CL of non-ch pets down?


Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas


Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.




Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

DaHumAn
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:14 am
#35

u obviously don't fight very much, master marksman skills are weak without the proper weapon which is a t-21 or a nice laser rifle. and to get a t-21 u need novice rifleman which is an advanced profession. try to pve a stormtrooper with just master marksman and see how long it will take vs a pistoleer with hs1 and hs2+pistol defence and stop shot. u have to count the time it takes to actually kill the mob vs the xp ur getting. u will then discover that there is almost no difference at xp per min running around killing flewts or nunas if you have crappy weapon skills. all a pet can do is to make u last longer, but if u die fighting something that's harder, chances are ur pets are screwed anyways. the balance is fine the way it is. im not pro anything and i dont care if i cant use my gurrek after the patch. these are just gameplay facts.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





MDE, my old nightmare, it will haunt me forever.
DaHumAn
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:20 am
#36

the devs brought it down because all people do is whine! omg he can do it, i cant! whine until they nerf it! whine, whine somemore. whine without knowing the gameplay, whine without knowing the game mech, whine just cause their class is not as "uber" as that other one. it's always the players that whine that ruins a game, i've played too many mmorpgs to know that. it's fine with me that they want to nerf it. i don't mind it, i can still kill things as a DE because i have the skills to as a player who knows the gameplay(hell pistoleers are broken and yet im still very capable, it's all in the skills, and no, i don't use those crazy fwg5s, i use dx2 which is also kinda broken.) i don't have a grudge with u or anything, i just wish people would know all sides of the game before they start ranting heh.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





MDE, my old nightmare, it will haunt me forever.
Sodan-droiddreamer
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:21 am
#37






Jenden wrote:

Ok, I was just using CL's as a point of reference to people, but the facts still remain. Here's an example, say I have a probot at the current levels, which everyone is complaining is way to weak. that probot, combined with no combat skills whatsoever allows me to take down mobs that normally you'd need to be around the level of master marksman to take (I've run tests, I've done this, trust me on it). Now, if your proposing better combat droids to sell to master/elite professions, then even better combat droids for MDE only, MDE's will have about the equivalent of 2 elite profession, while only paying the cost for 1 (and a cheaper one skill point wise at that). I don't see how this doesn't screw up the game balance. If you want something special that only MDE's get, give us the ability to heal droids damage similar to medics. It would make you invaluable in combat and have the least effect on the balance of the game (as well as making droids potentially more useful, replacing creatures).






Droid-Creator's proposal is about choice: DE still get new chassis to sell, combat types get to play that way, crafters can still be pure crafters, DEs get a slightly advanced or somehow special model (but not so much better than the new droids that people will sit through the grind exclusively for it).


Turning us into droid medics will screw the profession and prevent people from buying droids. Why do you think Maytag goes to such lenghs to make people the the maytag repair guy is stting on his $ss the whole day? People want ease of ownership. Your DE medic proposal would sink sales dramatically. As it is no people prefer pets that you can esily heal with: 1) Food, 2) The same stims you use, and 3) asking them to do a trick.




Sodan Droiddreamer (GEGN)
Sodan's Exotic Droidgarten - In Bohemian Grove (Geigen Shuttle), Tatooine (6156 7275)
Jenden
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:26 am
#38

I'm not talking about xp, I'm talking about ability. Since we're talking about MDE's that are conviced they should get special combat skills I'm assuming they either don't have combat skills right now or already have all they are planning on getting. Its a matter of what you can and can't do in the game. A character with no combat skills should not have the "high-end" combat content available to him (unless he is in a group with some combat types), just as a character with no crafting skills should not have access to any of the "high-end" crafting content (which doesn't currently exist, but thats besides the point, from what the devs say they're working on it).


Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas


Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.




Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

Jenden
Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:29 am
#39






Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:

Droid-Creator's proposal is about choice: DE still get new chassis to sell, combat types get to play that way, crafters can still be pure crafters, DEs get a slightly advanced or somehow special model (but not so much better than the new droids that people will sit through the grind exclusively for it).







You can't use the choice argument without it going both ways. If you can choose to use the combat droids, I can choose to sell them, all of them.


Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas


Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.




Jenden Morn - Master of Droids- Tarquinas
Droid Engineer Blue Glowy
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Groupy of the best band in the galaxy, Solar Flair
3D art of Jenden by Saeelwenea

Page 3 of 4