Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid Report (Publish 7): CL13 is correct, valid and normal
CaixCatab
Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:01 am
#27
Well, my adv R2 with a WDG, 110 medical, 10 item, and some data with 275HAM is rated CL13.
... not only are they now rated differently, they're also rated illogically...
Naufragus
Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:41 am
#28
can someone PLEASE find me a level 13 pet that has a 300 HAM????? or does a damage of 40?????????
couldnt they have have also raised the creatures levels instead of the droids...
Here is how the DEVS have screwed us AGAIN....
you see some of us dont use our droids for COMBAT (gasp!)....my droids are mainly mobile crafting stations and storage....i cant call my storage droid and my crafting droids at the SAME TIME.....there are R5s and R4s, have NO COMBAT skills what so ever....there is no reason they should be rated 13 and i cant call them at the same time....would be nice to be able to craft and access my supply storage at the same time....
TheRealTK421
Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:31 am
#29
/bow
DarthIguana wrote:
My complaint is that the devs told us one thing for weeks then changed it at some point and didn't tell us 1) when it happened,
I do not know when this changed was made to TC or when they made the decision to push it Live. It's fairly likely that I wasn't the Corr. when that went down.
and 2) WHY it happened (with some context on the changes to CL10 BE pets to make the arguement go over better).
Balance. They ran their numbers for 2 CL10 pets and found it to be not workable from a balance standpoint. Thus, they altered the hard stance on giving us CL10 and bumped the stats so they could be CL13.
And this REALLY bother me:
"Thunderheart let something slip that I hadn't gotten the official head's up to release."
Was this CL13 change a state secret or something?
Obviously not. However, I take very seriously the mandate not to talk about things before given the official head's up to do so. Sometimes, on the Corr. boards and such, it's hard to discern if something has been cleared or not. So, I err on the side of caution and I don't talk about something unless I know it can be discussed.
I'd like to point out here that while this was a 'bad' thing I couldn't talk about right away that there are also good things I can't talk about either.
Why would the Devs have to give TK a thumb's up to releasing this info when the change is already in the game?
This may be misinterpreting things a bit. Since I hadn't heard one way or another on this, I decided not to discuss it. As stated, I don't want to float info that hasn't been cleared.It may well be that I could have come to you earlier with this information but it wasn't clear to me that it was okay to do so.
Bear in mind that this all went down right at the time that Drashk and I were changing places and just before (and maybe a bit after) Publish 7 got released. So, part of this may have been me playing the part of a deer staring into the headlights a bit.
Chris
Respectfully,
Malitevv
Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:33 am
#30
its fine if your top droid is going to be "cl13" but please, can someone explain how it is"valid, correct, and normal" that ALL droids are CL13? Shoot, an MSE mouse droid with no combat functionality and no service modules installed is CL13 now! That's not normal. Itis just plain stupid.
I would much rather a weakercombat droid that I can take out with my creaturepet. I would very much prefer that the Dev's give me a choice in this regard. Let me choose what CL I wanteach droid to be by choosing how many combat modules I am going to put into it.
Making them all CL13 irregardless of their abilities is dumb. Yes, I already said that, but it bears repeating.More importantly, mislabeling all the droids with the sameCLmisleads our customers into thinking there may be someway to compare the CL ratings of droids to pets.
Which they cannot do.When the weakest possible droid and the strongest possible droid both have the exact same CL rating, it means, without any question, that the CL's on our droids are meaningless.
But that aside, can you clarify one thing TK: is the issue that
- CL10 droids were too weak so we had to up their stats and doing so meant you couldn't have a droid and a pet out at the same time (what TH said), or
- that having two CL10 pets out at the same time was determined to be too powerful so we upped all droids to CL13 so it would be impossible to have a droid and a creature out at the same time. (what you seem to be saying)
which is it, because the proper response to this issue is very different depending upon what the answer is. TH's response sounds like bull to me because it doesn't explain why mouse droids are CL13.
Malitevv
Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:45 am
#31
this TK, is false. The R5 with one inferior combat module is listed as CL13. It's stats have not been bumped to be comparable to a CL13 pet. They didn't "bump the stats to make them evaluate to CL13" they just arbitrarily labelled ALL droids CL13, with not consideration of what the droids abilities actually were.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Balance. They ran their numbers for 2 CL10 pets and found it to be not workable from a balance standpoint. Thus, they altered the hard stance on giving us CL10 and bumped the stats so they could be CL13.
Alacrity
Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:48 am
#32
CaixCatab wrote:
Any droid, combat capable or not, is as of now rated as a CL13 pet. So even pre-patch made pure crafting R-units are CL13.
This, more than anything else, tells me CL is completely arbitrary, and not linked to any "formula" whatsoever. Which, of course, makes it completely useless in drawing comparisons...
Shian_Tavkin
Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:51 pm
#33
Alacrity wrote:
CaixCatab wrote:
Any droid, combat capable or not, is as of now rated as a CL13 pet. So even pre-patch made pure crafting R-units are CL13.
This, more than anything else, tells me CL is completely arbitrary, and not linked to any "formula" whatsoever. Which, of course, makes it completely useless in drawing comparisons...
I agree, it must be completely arbitrary.
I still want to know how the CL calculations are supposed to work in this game, and I expect a great many BE would like to know the very same thing.
Malitevv
Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:35 pm
#34
well for droids, the CL calculation is obvious:
if(creature_is_a_droid) { CL = 13; }
/rolleyes
leeds
Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:39 am
#35
TheRealTK421 wrote:
JavelinCatcher wrote:Again with the buffing issue....can we get this looked at so we can get a equivalent? Seriously, a ARMOR power-up for droids would give them quite a uniqe differentiation from BE pets.Yea...I have this on the table. Haven't heard much back. /shrug
/bow
Respectfully,
I would excpt having an armor power up take armor from light to medium for a set # of (hits/time/or something).
I still maintain that since we have to use armor crafted by armorsmyths, which give a light armor rating, that droid armro should have at least an armor rating of light. Either this or get rid of the armorsmyth produced iterm requirement in making our armor.
Now i have said that i was leaving because of the stealth nerf, but since several have said we're not done till publish 8, I have decided finish my mastery and stick around to see what happens. However please convey to the devs that any more nerfing, stealth or otherwise, will likely result in a mass exodius,espically stealth nerfs....
If the devs want to calm us down then they need to throw us some bones, like a combat droid chasis other than the probot. If they don't then the pot will be kept to a near boil, i fear.
leeds
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:03 pm
#36
You know i heep hering about this game balance stuff. Having been a gamemaster for several games,battletech/mechwarrior comes to mind here, I have some insights into balance. What I'd, and the rest as well 
, would like to know is where is why criteria is being used to determin balance. I have a feeling that something is wacked in the figures..
Oh as for this cl13 bs. Sorry i'm a programmer and i know a cover when i see one. I'll heavly wager that they ran out of time ro make the structures necessary to support 2 bots out at the same time. Since they didn't want to mess with the code any more than they had to, they simply made em all class 13 and got a reprieve for a bit. Only problem with that it you have a high % of computer people on this game and we simply can see through the crap. Tell them next time the get into a corner to simply tell us. Yea we might be a bit upset but it won't honk us off th the extreme that we are not. I've had to delay programming in a change/feature because of some strange interaction with another module or because something simply went wrong. It happens but when it does i have to fill in why it happend and how soon the fix is. Sometimes the client allows for the extra time to fix it and sometimes they say ship without. Rarely do we end up haveing to pull a marithon session. But my point is, please don't outright lie or mislead us on this stuff....
Daniel Buchanan
B.S.C.S.
, would like to know is where is why criteria is being used to determin balance. I have a feeling that something is wacked in the figures..Oh as for this cl13 bs. Sorry i'm a programmer and i know a cover when i see one. I'll heavly wager that they ran out of time ro make the structures necessary to support 2 bots out at the same time. Since they didn't want to mess with the code any more than they had to, they simply made em all class 13 and got a reprieve for a bit. Only problem with that it you have a high % of computer people on this game and we simply can see through the crap. Tell them next time the get into a corner to simply tell us. Yea we might be a bit upset but it won't honk us off th the extreme that we are not. I've had to delay programming in a change/feature because of some strange interaction with another module or because something simply went wrong. It happens but when it does i have to fill in why it happend and how soon the fix is. Sometimes the client allows for the extra time to fix it and sometimes they say ship without. Rarely do we end up haveing to pull a marithon session. But my point is, please don't outright lie or mislead us on this stuff....
Daniel Buchanan
B.S.C.S.
MachineZed
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:35 pm
#37
Leeds, you might be right about the no 2 droids, but I think it has to deal with why they wanted us to have a Droid anda Non CH pet out at the same time. My theroy (derived from Object Oriented Programing) a droid is inhereted from a class Pet. That Pet class has all the basic info about Droid, Creatures, and Faction Pets. And the devs didnot have the time to figure out how to differenciate a droid from a creature. That would allow everybody to have either 2 level 10 pets, 2 level 10 droids, or 1 pet and droid. this would hurt the CHs because they have to spend the skill points to use 2 pets.
So instead they opted to make droids level 13, because we were expecting a droid and creature
Kniol
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:37 pm
#38
<<Bugged BEpets, maybe, but let me be the first to tell you as a Creature Handler, that these new CL13 droids blow tamed CL10s out of the ballpark and do quite well partnered with CL 20+ creatures and faction troopers.>>
Thanks for the Kudos (to the droids, not DE's), and I've used mine alongside a "lvl 10" Health-4500, Action 3800, Mind 1900 Razor Cat, and the R3 with 1691 HAM does just fine. My LE Repair Droid, melee only (and only a right hook and a wimpy kick - lol) with 2200 HAM held in there just fine also. I haven't tested a Combat Probot with 1100 HAM yet, but I think the higher DPS will make him comparable to a "normal" CL 10 pet.
However, I must disagree with one of your other points:
<<If people are complaining, its likely because they aren't using the new droid toolkits. Educate them. The average fighting droid can be recovered in one pop of a droidstim which is far easier to make than equivalent BE petstims, if you can even find a petsim crafter. Show people that these droids can be repaired in one hit from the (vastly overpowered) droidstim. The fact that they can be brought back to near full fighting strength with one shot in the arm is a selling point you guys need to push.>>
Nope. A "good" Revive Stim B (the more advanced are just too expensive to make for now) on a Droid does max 997 healing, spreading it over ALL the HAM bars, Mind first, then Action, then Health. And in most cases in battle, the Health bar takes the most damage. Since it is the last one fixed, in some battles (that I probably shouldn't have been involved in, in the first place, lol) the droid ended up dead on the ground and it took a LOT of stimming (like 12 to 15 shots) to get him back to full health. That's one expensive healing. I only have First Aid 2 in Medic, and I can get up to 350-400 range in TWO bars, Health and Action, out of one shot from a Stim B on my pet. Granted, sincehis Health is 4500, etc, it takes as long, but if he were a "normal" CL 10 Tamed pet, he would heal up a lot faster than the droid.
But that's a moot point also, since at NO TIME in the futures are the "average" players going to be able to call out both a CL10 pet and a CL13 Droid, and that was done by design and on purpose by the Devs, and not reported to us until TODAY, a week or more after Publish 7 came out. I took up Novice CH in the last two days, just to see if I could call them both out then, and I can, although my "Maximum Pet Level" is +12. Go figure.
TheRealTK421
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:48 pm
#39
Number 2 describes the situation. The hard set CL13, to both give us a 'bump' in combat droid power and to prevent situations whereby players would be able to call 2 <CL10 pets.
Malitevv wrote:
But that aside, can you clarify one thing TK: is the issue that
- CL10 droids were too weak so we had to up their stats and doing so meant you couldn't have a droid and a pet out at the same time (what TH said), or
- that having two CL10 pets out at the same time was determined to be too powerful so we upped all droids to CL13 so it would be impossible to have a droid and a creature out at the same time. (what you seem to be saying)
It was found that 2 <CL10 pets wasn't workable from a balance / advancement / 'power' standpoint.
/bow
Respectfully,