Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Project: Droid Engineer Modular Upgrade System Synopsis
Drashk
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:55 pm
#27
Straker_Atrella wrote:
No matter what Drashks first post really said abotu pros and cons, I think it really comes down to this.
Developing takes time, lots of time in this case.
Modular desgin doesn't fix our "Need" or "Decay" issues.
We need to get what limited Dev time we have to fix those issues.
All other pros and cons really don't matter in the big picture.
This is the heart of the matter; however as I've stated in the past, if this is the direction that the majority of the community wishes to push for, then that is what I will do. I in no way wish to surpress the idea, I just want to stress that if this is the direction that the community wants to head, all factors need to be considered.
I like the concept of the Modular Upgrade System. I just don't like what would happen if this was push before addressing our more serious issues such as Experimentation, Decay, and Overall usefulness. Later on, after all of these have been addressed, (/crosses fingers) this might be a great feature to add. Now is just not exactly the right time.
BillyBobthe50th
Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:25 pm
#28
To put what drask has been saying into a few words:
He doesnt want/nor does he like the idea and hes trying to make an excuse. 
Let him get what he wants, hes a correspondent!
Let him get what he wants, hes a correspondent! WHEEEEEEEEE!
Gron_DM
Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:11 pm
#29
i sat down and thought some more about the modular system and i would love to see it created i beleive it would create much happier DE's and customers overall.......
that being said i agree with the overall sentiment above plz fix what is broke and add some more "need" and "decay"...however i think the modular system can address the need as well as make the market for droids much more attractive...the only downside is we still have a lack of "need" by the overall SWG community that has always been a problem with droids...
once that gets addressed im all for decay being implemented into modularity. Oh and as for how they can do it as much as ppl would gripe just not do any kind of overhaul on pre-existing droids, make modularity and a full selection of chassis a new thing and all the old droids are just that old... (think of it as a technological breakthrough for droids)
After being a DE for since the first days of game though id love to see us more needed and see modularity.
psikobunny
Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:03 am
#30
In a perfect development world, this sort of thought (the modular system) is what would have gone into droids in the first place. As much as I would love to see it come to pass, I would be much happier seeing the problems in our current system fixed. I am of the opinion that we got our revamp time, we should not go back asking for an almost total rewrite when other professions have gotten nothing thus far.
Asking for parity isn't too much (having droids show skills required, or being able to redeed them, just like ships).
Asking for bug fixes isn't too much.
Asking for items that have been marginalized because of other game changes to be addressed (paint kits and survey droids come to mind).
Making sure we get what we need to compete in the economy isn't too much.
Trying to get rewritten so we are just as new and shiny as the new kid on the block, that's too much.
PS If it were to come down from the Gods that we would in fact get such development, not because we asked but because that's the way the powers that be want the game to go, then I would suggest this: A ship changes when its owner uses the terminal to command the Port Facilities to make the changes. Reconfiguring a droid should be a delicate process only attempted by a trained professional (NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE) Give us a modular system, but let it be under the control of a trained DE only. A special terminal that would initiate a process similar to an Image Design Session. The owner keeps control of his droid, the DE keeps control of his skills and expertise and doesn't simply become a parts supplier. All changes, prices are at the consent of both parties, and the old parts go to the DE or the owner (default to the DE unless a checkbox is clicked).
YodaMac
Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:55 am
#31
Yes, it's true: The current Shipwright mode of crafting is what Droid Engineering should have been from the start. Unfortunately they just didn't think of it in time... and so we have what we have.
To those that feelasking for a better DE profession is asking too much, I ask you to name the only profession besides Jedi to get two complete Patches dedicated to them.... It's Droids. 
(and with JtL DE's even got some more "luv" as well...Jedi didnt)
(and with JtL DE's even got some more "luv" as well...Jedi didnt)My point is that the DEVs obviously see that besides Jedi and Space-battles, Droids are Star Wars! I am completely confident that Droids will see even further enhancements with the upcoming GCW re-do. There is no reason to be ashamed of this, or feel that we need to step aside and give Tailors or Entertainers their turn at the DEVs. DEVs have already seen the need to focus on makingDroids "better" and frankly we need to help them.
The community of DE's spoke out against Combat Droids in the past, and got the DEVs focused on what we really needed at the time...more functionality! It was all the combat players out there who wanted big ol' blasto-mechs to kill Rancors for them. (aka- make the game "easy" for them), but DE's clearly directed the DEVs towards a more beneficial "long-term" goal for ALL players of increased functionality for Droids.
As a DE, I'm in this game to make Droids, not credits. (there's pretty well nothing for a DE to spend his credits on except resources and power to keep crafting Droids.) And the ability to replace old, worn-out modules with new, improved modules would add a tremendous amount of fun and interest to the profession at all skill levels. I don't have the entire system planned out (thats the DEVs job finally) but I've seen some great ideas suggested in this very thread....
And the ability to replace old, worn-out modules with new, improved modules would add a tremendous amount of fun and interest to the profession at all skill levels. I don't have the entire system planned out (thats the DEVs job finally) but I've seen some great ideas suggested in this very thread....* Make DE's the ones who do the "upgrading", and make the process depend on the DE's skills. (a failure means the DE might have to build a whole new droid anyways....)
* Make the modules the things that decay and require forced replacement. (not our plastic pals themselves!)
* Prices will adjust accordingly. They always do.
So.... either ask the DEVs to spend more time on a confusing, monotonous, imperfect system, fixing the many bugs that still exist. (naming those darned talk-droids!)...
...or... get all those bugs fixedas part of abrand new system of Droid crafting that is far and away superior to the current one.
The DEVs see the value of droids in the game, and the profession of DE is key to their future expandability and usefullness. Let's help them figure it out and make it happen. For them, for us, for all of Star Wars Galaxies.
Message Edited by YodaMac on 11-07-2004 08:57 AM
BillyBobthe50th
Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:02 am
#32
Well, heres a better idea before we go into any further consideration...
Lets see what drask wants to do in great detail-basically we dont know if his ideas on what DE should be are any better.
Jenden
Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:05 am
#33
BillyBobthe50th wrote:
Well, heres a better idea before we go into any further consideration...
Lets see what drask wants to do in great detail-basically we dont know if his ideas on what DE should be are any better.
I'm not sure we should really redefine DE.... The profession does have its problems, but that doesn't mean it needs to be completely revamped on such a fundamental level. I believe the core of DE is good, swap out what we've got now with a modular upgrade system and none of our problems go away, we just do things in a different way. Fix the current problems (decay and necessity) and then you evaluate where we are and where we should be. Think of it like your car having a broken window, so you take it in to get the engine rebuilt, same idea. There's nothing really wrong with the current module system, all the complaints I've seen about the DE profession have been with small details that can be fixed.
DarkRenown
Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:07 am
#34
Just an addition to my earlier post on this topic, then I'm done! 
I support the idea of a modular system, I think it could address some of the issues we DE's have said bug us a lot.
However!
What I would like to happen, is the Wish List we already have done first. Fix the bugs! Give us Decay!
A Modular system would be a major overhaul of our profession. That's not what I am pushing for. If it could be done, then great, but not at the expense of the wishes we have already expressed.
Give us Decay, give us combat, fix our bugs.
After that, and after the Devs have addressed the major issues in some of the other professions (Smuggler, BH, Ents etc). Then we can push for an overhaul.
Drashk
Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:44 am
#35
Jenden wrote:
BillyBobthe50th wrote:
Well, heres a better idea before we go into any further consideration...
Lets see what drask wants to do in great detail-basically we dont know if his ideas on what DE should be are any better.
I'm not sure we should really redefine DE.... The profession does have its problems, but that doesn't mean it needs to be completely revamped on such a fundamental level. I believe the core of DE is good, swap out what we've got now with a modular upgrade system and none of our problems go away, we just do things in a different way. Fix the current problems (decay and necessity) and then you evaluate where we are and where we should be. Think of it like your car having a broken window, so you take it in to get the engine rebuilt, same idea. There's nothing really wrong with the current module system, all the complaints I've seen about the DE profession have been with small details that can be fixed.
The next Phase 1 Document, that I am currently working on, does deal with revamping the experimentation system, so that experimentation becomes more important during Droid Chassis and Droid Deed construction. Experimentation should have more meaning in droid development. What experimentation we do have is broken down like so -
- Out of 121 total schematics, only80 schematics result in any kind of improvement, when experimented on.
- Out of the80 Experimented schematics
- 27 are Level based (Structure Maint, Item & Data Storage, Medical, and Armor)
- 12 are non-Combat Droids that have very little experimentation variance
- 1 experimentation is only necessary as an optional component (Droid Storage Compartments for Private Crafting Stations)
- 1 could be viewed to harm sales by using experimentation (Droid Customization Kits)
- 4are of extremely limited use (Reconstruction Kits)
- 10 are sub-components used in Repair and Reconstruction Kits
- 1 is of semi-limited use that can be bi-passedthree-fourths of the time by using an outside source (Interplanetary Survey Droids)
- 2 are limited sale Modules (Scout Trap Projectile and Stimpack Dispenser)
- 4are mainly used for Combat Droids. (Repair Kits)
- 14 are Combat Droids
- 3 produce high user demand (Combat, Auto-Repair, and Harvester Modules)
- 1 produces high user demand and is a consumable (Detonation Modules)
When broken down and looked at in this light, out the 80 schematics where experimentation matters, only 35 could be considered highly useful experimentation. 35 out of 121 schematics is on the low end scale of experimentation, when compared to the other crafting professions.
To me, this is one of the fundamental issues with Droid Engineering. Not only do we need to make our profession more sought after by others in the game, our profession should also be more fullfilling to those that chose the path of Droid Engineer. I think that a small revamp of the way that we build droids, so that experimentation plays a larger role, is at the heart of making Droid Engineering a better rounded crafting profession, but can also increase the value of our droids, to our customers.
One thing that I feel I should stress again, after reading BillyBobthe50th's comments.
What I want to do does not matter. It is the Community that I am here to represent.
Any posts that I make in Phase 1 of the Project: Droid Engineer series are my own ideas and insights on the shape that I think our profession should take. No matter how I debate a subject, it is ultimately the Community's decision to push an idea forward. I in no means want people to feel that I am stonewalling any subject matter. If anyone feels that I need to back off on trying to push for one thing or another, please feel free to call me on it here in the forums, or through PMs. I am only here to represent the Community's wishesto the DEVs and not 'push my own agenda'.
The entire reason for Project: Droid Engineer is to bring together different discussions on what the Community would like to see done with any future development time that we recieve, beyond bug fixes. The DEVs have stated that all non-Combat Professions will see some good ol' DEV luvin after the Combat Revamp is completed, and before the GCW Revamp takes place. There are supposed to be more then 1 non-Combat publish, which could mean that multiple professions will be hit at the same time. Even though Droid Engineer was effected by Publish 7 and 8, it does not mean that we won't see more production in the near future (in the next 9 months or less).
SOETyrant has raised the bar for what a Publish should look like. If you were a part of JtL Beta, and have followed the numerous additions in the last few months, you will noticed that not only has more communication been flowing from the DEV camp, but that the DEVs have been listening to many community requests as well.
psikobunny
Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:35 am
#36
I wanted to share a thought that I had. The fact that the Devs aren't focusing on us doesn't mean we won't see any love either.
JtL is a good example of nontargeted enhancement. We got a bit of new stuff as part of the expansion. I think the same sort of thing will happen when the GCW revamp occurs as well.
I am hopeful that Drashk is right about the upgraded timetable for changes. And I look forward to the next document, since I think along with Decay, Experimentation is our next biggest bane.
tenineteen
Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:32 am
#37
rushy68 wrote:
heres an idea... lets implement this new system, but make it so only the droid engineers can re-module them, we can price it kinda high, and it would really balance out our financial issues, give us another skill to play with, + it would be
awesome to have it so that novices can do it to, it would open the market to the whole pro.. give feedback plz
With some work, this angle of the idea is something I could definitely see being of use. The DE can set the pricing for reconfiguring and parts accordingly. This combined with a chassis/droid decay system would work quite well and allow for additional flexibility, as well as making sure we're not selling ourselves short.
Rihtan
Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:34 pm
#38
All through this post one of the major arguments I've seen against the modular system is the time it would take away from Decay. One question.
What does Decay mean??
I mean all over this board we cry out for droid decay but do we really know what it is we want? Under the current system I can't see a way to get droid decay that dosent involve having the whole droid decay. And I'm against that at all costs. It will drive me nuts and cause my customers, already more interested as droids as decorations than as droids, to hate me and swear off droids altogether.
By using a modular system out we can let each module decay based upon how much use it sees. I like the Modular Upgrade System idea and see it as an important part of a good droid decay system.
Droids forever, let modules decay.
What does Decay mean??
I mean all over this board we cry out for droid decay but do we really know what it is we want? Under the current system I can't see a way to get droid decay that dosent involve having the whole droid decay. And I'm against that at all costs. It will drive me nuts and cause my customers, already more interested as droids as decorations than as droids, to hate me and swear off droids altogether.
By using a modular system out we can let each module decay based upon how much use it sees. I like the Modular Upgrade System idea and see it as an important part of a good droid decay system.
Droids forever, let modules decay.
Message Edited by Rihtan on 11-08-2004 12:46 PM
MissKuss
Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:45 pm
#39
Hello,
I'm a new droid engineer and even if my experience is still very limited I felt like participating to the discussion.
I'm not for a modular design because I just don't think it's needed, specialy if droids decay over time. However this is what I would like to see (I do not doubt that these have allready been said):
- Every chassis should be usefull for something, perhaps a DZ70 should have an inherent bonus to trapping adding to any trapping module installed in it. A surgical droid should definatly have a bonus to any medical module installed. Etc.
- Weapon modules should be configurable, I'd like to make a droid that uses heat weapons or one that uses acid, flame etc.
- Some ship parts shouldn't even be useable without an Astromech or a Flight Computer, Hyperspacing shouldn't be possible without a Flight Computer of level 3 or above.
MissKuss
I'm a new droid engineer and even if my experience is still very limited I felt like participating to the discussion.
I'm not for a modular design because I just don't think it's needed, specialy if droids decay over time. However this is what I would like to see (I do not doubt that these have allready been said):
- Every chassis should be usefull for something, perhaps a DZ70 should have an inherent bonus to trapping adding to any trapping module installed in it. A surgical droid should definatly have a bonus to any medical module installed. Etc.
- Weapon modules should be configurable, I'd like to make a droid that uses heat weapons or one that uses acid, flame etc.
- Some ship parts shouldn't even be useable without an Astromech or a Flight Computer, Hyperspacing shouldn't be possible without a Flight Computer of level 3 or above.
MissKuss