Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid Decay System 2.0
OckVofad
Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:34 am
#27
If you want to make a comment please read through all the posts. We have already stated that this wont get done this year.
I really dont have anything to add other than I like the system but i think I liked the original proposal better b/c it will require less coding changes. (Vitality vs. Integrity)
I dont think this system is that hard to understand. Ultimately battery life or incap = droid decay. This is all our customers need to know.
If its too complex for the developers then we dont scale the effects noted above.
We should shoot for this:
Droid min lifetime = 1 month
Droid max lifetime =4 months
Average = 2.5 months
Lastly, the droid engineer profession doesnt need saving we do decently.I would say we are "middle-class" crafters. Every crafting profession should have some sort of condition or decay system that gives them repeat business. The weapon and armorsmiths currently enjoy such a system. Why not us?
Stravros
Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:47 am
#28
surprised no ones mentioned pets have no life time, since they only take vit hit if killed, other wise they live for ever,
cars dont decay beyond use if repaired,houses dont decay beyond use if maintained,which is why i dont see why droids should, im master de which would mean money for me in theroy, but i wouldnt be in favor of system like that. system where droids have to be attended to by a de after so long is ok but this idea it becomes unusablejust dont seem right. wepons last long time and armour different type thing really 99% droid models not geting hit over head, swiped,bitten or shot at. games been around how long and im still selling droids which means people still after them, so why worry now about making money every few months. architects not worried about selling medium house to someone every couple months since after all that woulndt make sense.
OckVofad
Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:03 am
#29
Vehicles and houses are designed to drain money from the economy. Ask Artisans or Archetects if they would like repair kits for these items and you would hear an overwelming "Yes!!"
Pets from a game standpoint should also need to be replaced to help out the CHs.
Please read my posts in version 1 of this thread where i have typed out all these arguements.
Bottom line: Other profs have decay and I'd like to have it too.
OckVofad
Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:25 am
#30
It is my opinion that something that will change droids like this will take a while especially if we go with a completely new Intregity system. In this case you are correct, Gavvot, the simplier we make it the more likely it is to be done this year. I dont need to be on the Dev team to understand that.
My opinion is that out of the 32 professions DE is low on the priority list.We just got two publishes and we are getting JTL content for sure.
This dips into our arguement on the status of the profession and i dont want to go there.
I believe i have addressed my feelings on how long a droid would last in my above post. I know you are a person who wants totally concrete numbers to pass on to your customers but this is probably the best estimate we would get (SOE likes to keep that stuff secret).
And I'm not saying the decay system should be exactly like the WS or AS b/c its totally different products. But a decay system would be helpful to us.
DarkRenown
Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:43 am
#31
OK, my two penneth!
I like the idea of a Droid Decay system. Obviously, it will give me more business! However, thinking of how SWG and the films inter-relate, the films have droids hanging around for years (think R2 and 3PO) without ever decaying. The worst they need is the occasional overhaul.
Combat Droids to decay over time, hence the need for Reconstruction kits, but the normal usage droids (medical, entertainer etc) don't seem to, unless you foolishly send them into a scrap!!
To fit in with the films, I don't see a droid decay system working. But, also to keep in line with the films, Droids performance could degrade over time, to the point where they become difficult to work with, needing an overhaul or memory wipe. Services that only a Droid Engineer could do.
So an alternative, is the ageing process of the droid. As it gets older, the less likely it is to take your commands without complaint, or thinking for itself. That Combat R3 unit, after 6 months starts getting wise to the fact it gets hit a lot and you take all the credit, so it starts going into combat slower, or even randomly refusing. Of course, you visit your local Droid Dealer, and get is memory wiped, overhauled and your ready to go again. Or, you could choose to bin the droid, sell it on to someone or back to the dealer, and buy a nice new R3 unit with top of the range combat modules.
I know that DE's on my server seem to do slow business, but then again, the prices are quite high to reflect this, so it's swings and roundabouts. As long as there is a regular influx of new players/characters to the game, they will need droids. However, once the influx slows down, then Droids will hit a saturation point, and will need another overhaul.
If we could wipe droids, and reset their stats, it would encourage DE's to offer part exchange on new droids. Therbey enabling them to keep stock moving without the expensive crafting process.
Mind you, with the scandalous amount of money availab le in the game, I can;t see this happening. People will buy a droid, use it, bin it when it gets too damaged, or they get bored of it and just buy new.
Not sure there is an easy answer to this (as you can tell from my ramble) but it is a good thread and one to watch!
Personally, I just want a release option, so I can free my droids and watch them run around Bestine randomly! Free the Droids!
Regards
ZeckAzuenden
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:11 am
#32
1. You have a large complex system here, that will, without a doubt require a sizeable amount of coding and testing. It requires changes in experimentation, and several systems that impact how droids work.
2. Smugglers are still on the list and will get zip until after JTL, which is this fall, putting any kind of revamp for them into next year, realisticly.
3. Several other professions need work.
4. and lastly, DE's have received the attention of a full publish already.
Now, it would seem that I have read through quite a bit then eh? Now do you honestly think that your proposal is going to get anywhere this year, or for that fact, anytime soon in next year? I don't need to be on the dev team to tell you the answer to that, all I have to do is read through all the tons of comments on these boards about dev time and limited resources to tell you, the kind of change your asking for is way to much to happen anytime in the forseeable future.
Odds are, over half the people even posting on this thread won't be playing SWG by the time the devs get back around to looking at droid engineers. If you seriously want to address the issue, you need to find something much simpler that has the same end result, more return business for DE's.
Stravros
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:37 am
#33
yep agree totaly with darkrenownand one thing i been asked couple times do i do trade in's etc, if we able to redeed a fully repaired droid then would also give us another business point. you can redeed harvs so why not vechiles and droids.
Jenden
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:05 am
#34
zeck, I don't think any of us are expecting things to get done anytime soon. My guesstimate for something like this is spring next year (though thats probably being optimistic) but it never hurts to start early. Yes, dev time is focused elsewhere right now but they have tended to take a look at discussions like this in the past and guide them in the right direction, that way when there is time for this we have a solid proposal.
Stravros
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:26 am
#35
Ockvofad dont take me wrong im not trying to flame you since we all on same side, eg droid engineers.
But houses drain economy by paying maintance on them already,
Artisans should be able to make repair kits for vechiles even if they only ones able to use them.
Drashk
Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:00 pm
#36
Jenden wrote:
zeck, I don't think any of us are expecting things to get done anytime soon. My guesstimate for something like this is spring next year (though thats probably being optimistic) but it never hurts to start early. Yes, dev time is focused elsewhere right now but they have tended to take a look at discussions like this in the past and guide them in the right direction, that way when there is time for this we have a solid proposal.
When I first started putting together this thread series, I had the up coming addition of combat droids in mind. When the DEVs bring in the higher end droids, and possibly the Droid Commander profession, Droid Engineers will get a little attention as well, probably in the form of some sort of Decay system. I'm a bit of a forward thinker, so I decided to put down my thoughts on the subject now. Besides, let us look back at the past track history for our DEV team. It usually takes at the very least 3-6 months of them throwing around ideas before production time is qued up. This is not meant as a slight, rather it is to illustrate the production schedule. The more ideas that we can introduce to the DEVs, that are more than just vague impressions of a system, will help them in the idea throwing around phase.
Here is a rough estimate of where production time stands right now -
- Publish 10 - Jedi Revamp (approxSept)
- JTL - (approx Dec - Jan 2005)
- Publish 11 - GCW (approx March 2005)
- Publish 12 - Smuggler Revamp (approx May 2005)
JTL is sort of on its own production scale, but with Beta starting soon we will see some of the DEVs that work on our current issues moving around to cover intergration with the current code on Live. Even after JTL is released, we will see the DEVs in crunch time forking out Hot Fixes to fix any problems that were missed in Testing.
Even if the DEVs suddenly had a week or two of free production time, which I doubt, they could begin the process of coding a Decay system based upon battery usage and the Vitality system. If you take a look at what I am suggesting, it can easily be converted into stages of addition.
- Decay tied to Battery usage (Each Chargeticksoff 1 Vitality point)
- Change to Integrity system (Integrity loss drops charge life)
- Change to crafting system (Integrity experimentation)
- Add Reconstruction and Reconditioning kits
Each of these additions could be part of the mini publishes.
We can sit back and be pessimestic about something like this ever being looked at, or we can push forward and bring our suggestions together. Each time that this thread is updated, we bring together more information and ideas for the DEVs to take a look at, which is the true purpose of the threads listed in my sig.
MachineZed
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:13 pm
#37
Ok I thought long and hard about this idea.I tried to come up with something thought provoking, then I finally realized its me, MachineZed. Not going to happen.
But I did have a few thoughts on this subject. /whipps out pen, papper and math book
Some droids take more Components so I will take the run of the mill Adv R2 with no modules fully experimented for "Integrety" Module Integrety Rating of 75 (just for chasis) Chasis Rating of 100, plus another 15 for the brain in the Deed (85+100)*100%+100=290, seems like alot yes, but never going to happen, but add 5 more modules to put in the comabt sockets +75 and the additional brain for the cluster you now have a droid that has 380 "integrety" no armor, I forgot to write down the numbers for that. Now is the Avd R3 going to take the value from 380/380 from percentage meaning at 180 the droid is already at 50% effective charge, or would it still be based on the 380/100 meaning it still has to loose280 before it drops any effectiveness? Now of the basic MSE Droid, let see one module 15*100%+100=115, even a Adv with all modules filled would max out at 145
Second thought this is not a linear curve once the droid does get down to the 50% you are now effectively at 1/4 of the droids life because you 1) can only recarge the droid to 50% power, and 2) recharging the droid twice as offten, which both drop the droids "integrety" I think this hurts the customer more than any other decay system already in place.
I hate to bring up armor and weapons, but I must when you weapon goes down to 20% condition, it doesn't loose more condtion along with loosig more power, it just looses some power off the top. Same with your armor, when it gets down to 20% condition it does loose any of its resists, you still have the same resists.
That being said I like the idea, just when it comes down to it the drop off in Integrety is TOO sharp, otherwise customers will be jumping down out throughts for the reconditioning at 80% rather than the 20% like you may think.
OckVofad
Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:58 am
#38
Stravos,
I was using that as an example of the contrast between vehicles/houses and droids. I would like to see artisans and archetects get repair kits myself.
However, the devs use vehicles and houses to drain money from the economy. I'm not saying i agree with it.
Drashk
Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:00 am
#39
MachineZed wrote:
Some droids take more Components so I will take the run of the mill Adv R2 with no modules fully experimented for "Integrety" Module Integrety Rating of 75 (just for chasis) Chasis Rating of 100, plus another 15 for the brain in the Deed (85+100)*100%+100=290, seems like alot yes, but never going to happen, but add 5 more modules to put in the comabt sockets +75 and the additional brain for the cluster you now have a droid that has 380 "integrety" no armor, I forgot to write down the numbers for that. Now is the Avd R3 going to take the value from 380/380 from percentage meaning at 180 the droid is already at 50% effective charge, or would it still be based on the 380/100 meaning it still has to loose280 before it drops any effectiveness? Now of the basic MSE Droid, let see one module 15*100%+100=115, even a Adv with all modules filled would max out at 145
Second thought this is not a linear curve once the droid does get down to the 50% you are now effectively at 1/4 of the droids life because you 1) can only recarge the droid to 50% power, and 2) recharging the droid twice as offten, which both drop the droids "integrety" I think this hurts the customer more than any other decay system already in place.
I hate to bring up armor and weapons, but I must when you weapon goes down to 20% condition, it doesn't loose more condtion along with loosig more power, it just looses some power off the top. Same with your armor, when it gets down to 20% condition it does loose any of its resists, you still have the same resists.
That being said I like the idea, just when it comes down to it the drop off in Integrety is TOO sharp, otherwise customers will be jumping down out throughts for the reconditioning at 80% rather than the 20% like you may think.
Something that needs to be kept in mind is that the droid can be repaired to bring it back up to 100%. What should be pointed out though is that the Integrity pool will also drop over time as well. When I refer to 100%, 80% and so on, I'm refering to the X/Y number. If a Droid has 160/200 Integrity, it hits the 80% mark. If the droid is repaired using a Restoration Kit and drops the max Integrity to 170/170, the droid is considered at 100% again. Utility droids are going to take a large amount of time to decay, depending on how much each DE decides to experiment on Integrity. Its going to be a toss up between giving the droid long life and giving it the best stats.
The progession can be changed, so that it is more like
- 100% = 100%
- 80% = 90%
- 60% = 70%
- 50% = 50%
- 40% = 40%
- 30% =30%
- 20% = 20%
- 10% = 10%
At some point, we need to have a jump of a large percent, to show people that their droid is becoming out-datedand needs to be replaced. Yes, I know that in the Star Wars Universe we see droids running around for hundreds of years. Unfortunately, this isn't that place that we all know and love. This is SWG were things are based upon a skill point system and the expenditure of credits and experimence. If we want to have a viable droid market that brings a bounty of repeat business for everyone, some sacrifices are going to have to be made.