Droid Engineer Archive

TheRealTK421, thanks

neshura, I understand what you are saying, but the fact is a droid can't be compared to a blaster. A droid is a multitude of DIFFERENT blasters mixed into one. So its that much harder to classify it by generalisation rather that than the droid's functions and abilities. In an ideal Star Wars game, the droid's functions and abilities would be heavily tied to the droid type and THAT would be the generalisation .. an R2 unit is the only one to use a repair module for example. However, we don't have that laxury.

progman63, let me re-state that this was meant as the "starting point" .. its an idea to worked on, thats why I posted it instead of just sending it to SOE. But to reply to your points:

"Each AI level lists anywhere from 2 to 7 different professions and levels of professions"

This is no different than current cert systems. If you reach novice rifleman, it adds "T21 certification" to your char's data. If you remove novice rifleman, it removes it. In the instance of the AI chip, if you gain novice rifleman, you gain a "Droid Combat AI level 5" (or whatever level) certifcation. Where it comes from, and how many times its added, is irrelevant. It may be listed as being added 7 times in your database, but all you would see in your skills box is just one entry for each level.

"Customers will have to buy a droid with an AIlevel that is specific to thier current profession"

They already have to do this anyway. But, just like the medic module or T21 rifle, there is nothing stopping someone from buying it.. even if they can or can't use it. But since the AI levels are spread throughout such a large radious, the chances are with almost any profession combination you'd still get a pretty similar AI level

"If they drop skills in one profession to pick up another profession, they will not be able to use their droids until they reachsome spot in another profession."

Going back to the T21 cert, not having the cert doesn't mean "you cannot use the T21" .. it simply means you cannot use it anywhere near as effectively. I would therefore expect the same treatment on the AI certifications. If you buy a droid with an AI level of 6, and only have an AI cert of 2, you would still be able to use it.. you'd just suffer the penalties. But as it stands, the levels are spread throughout so many different (and pretty **edit** easy to get) combat professions that you'd litteraly have to lose ALL your skills for this to really effect you, unless you had THE highest level.

"This will be a major disadvantage when trying to sell droids to players if they know they may not be able to use the droids they spent thier hard earned credits on."

There aremany sides to this:
1) It gives the owner something to work for. If they want their level 6combat droid to be attacking at its best abilities, they need to hit askillboxthat gives them the certification
2) People would be able to see their current AI certs and are likely to purchase by that.
3) A lot of people would just want the droid as a tank and wouldn't even want it to have a very strong attack because it would be "stealing" their XP. Since the droid's defense abilities isn't based on the AI certs, it wouldn't matter to them what AI it has and how effective its going to be for them with their current AI cert.
4) There are people that still buy T21's even though they never intend on being a rifleman, simply because it looks cool on the wall ... looks call when you're holing it (its the biggest gun in the game after all!) etc etc

"Tying droid types or levels to specific professions isn't a very good idea"

Then is the medical module and crafting stations not a very good idea? Because they do exactly that. You can only use a droid's architect crafting station if you have the architect skills. The higher up you are in the architect profession, the better results you will gain from using that crafting station. Its the same deal, only my idea is a lot LESS limited.

"Where are the non-combat professions"

These droids are, by definition, a "combat" utility. Therefore, they should be centered around the combat classes.

Why should someone thats mastered the Artisan profession but doesn't have a single combat profession be able to use a top-class combatdroid? They shouldn't be able too. The REASON why I made it an "AI chip" is because being an effective combat unit is NOT as simple as point and shoot. Its about being able to "understand" orders. Its about being able to GIVE orders. Its about knowing when to stand back and let the other person deal with it, or step in and save them. Controlling a combat droid shouldn't ever be "Anyone should be able to do it! All ya gotta do is say ATTACK!" Sure, anyone can say "ATTACK" and make a droideka shoot someone. But its all about how effective their command will be. How responcive the droid will be to the command etc etc ... you would only ever learn these skills from combat. The only exception here would be the Droid Engineer, simply because the Droid Engineer has the advantage of knowing what the droid is capable off.

"Only combat professions will be able to use combat droids above level 1? Why limit droid usagethis way? Master DE, the only non-combat profession, is the only one listed, and at Level 6. That will not please all DE's."

I've learnt there is very little that WOULD please us DE's. But as it stands, there are many people that have replied to this thread. No one, aside from yourself, has had a problem with that part

"You can say that only combat professions need combat droids, but that's an assumption you're making for all the rest of us."

I never once said or assumed that. That is why I HAVEN'T limited combat droids to combat professions, since EVERYONE starts off the game with a "Droid Combat AI 1 Certification". I do, however, believe that only a combat profession "should need to use a HIGH-LEVEL combat droids" but that is an entirely different thing.

"This plan does not allow ALL players of ALL types to own a combat droid, or elite players of ALL types to own atougher combat droid."

Yes it does. Explain to me how it doesn't because I fail to understand your reasoning. Not everyone can use a combat droid "as effectively" as a higher-level combat player, but why should they be able too?

"Why not limit CH pets to specific combat professions and not let any non-combat professionsuse them."

CH *IS* a combat profession. CH is about learning how to use combat pets. The developers themselves have labelled it as a combat profession.

"This is different than a rifleman getting rifle certs. That instance is a profession gaining skills for using the tools of their own profession, not items from another profession. But I won't argue that point too strongly as long as people get to usedroids."

You can't argue that point with droids since a Droid isn't ONLY about one of its modules or one of its uses. However, it *IS* the same as someone gaining a T21 certification.

"I know you said who builds the parts is irrelevant, but the original plan mentions weaponsmiths over and over again.
Very few DE will appreciate even more dependence on other professions to build our droids. We already need master Artisan parts, architect parts, and armorsmith parts. No other profession is that dependent.
I know that it's logical to assume weapons parts would be produced by weaponsmiths, but that would put more undue strain onour profession."

I do agree with you, asa DE, that a DE should be able to build his own weapons for his own droids. But my vision I had for these was the battle droid. The battle droid doesn't have a special "droid blaster" built into its arm, it uses a carbine it has been given. The exact same carbine that could well have been given to a human soldier.

But, if you also read my other point from the "who builts it is irrelevant" post, I also said that these changes would (or should) come with a reduction in the amount of master artisan parts we need.

As it stands, these modules could work just like the defense modules. Level 1-5 do not require non-DE parts .. level 6 DOES.

"All in all, there are other plans that are simpler and easier to implement, do allow players of all types to own low end and high end droids as skills dictate, and are easier for the layperson to understand."

I have yet to see a "simpler" solution meet the developer's AND DE's requirements. The developers DON'T want people using tough combat utilities unless they have learnt the skills that would earn them the right. Droid Engineers want to be able to sell to as many poeple as they can, and not have an entire line of droids stuck to one profession.

Vampiric, you've added a few things like using combat droids "as effectively" to your cert agument that I never saw in any previous posts, and that changes things. Perhaps I missed it.

You ARE assuming, for the rest of us, that non-combat professions don't need or want combat droids. They may be a combat 'utility' but that doesn't mean only people that can shoot a gun should be able to use droids. That's an assumption you have made for everyone else in the game.

Anyone in say the chef profession, with no skills in any hard combat profession, can go out and take some CH skills and use higher level creatures.

What I'm saying is tying droid certs to specific combat only professionscut markets we could sell to. If we give certain certs to novice and master skills, they should include ALL professions. Not just the ones you think we should include.

THAT plan wouldallow ALL players of ALL types to own a combat droid, or elite players of ALL types to own atougher combat droid.

The plan as it now stands DOES NOT. All players of all types would include the chefs and tailors and architects. Not just combat players.

Droid Engineers want to be able to sell to as many poeple as they can, and dismissing entire professions will not allow that.

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I have yet to see a "simpler" solution meet the developer's AND DE's requirements. The developers DON'T want people using tough combat utilities unless they have learnt the skills that would earn them the right. Droid Engineers want to be able to sell to as many poeple as they can, and not have an entire line of droids stuck to one profession.
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In fact there have been simpler solutions proposed butsomepeopledon't like them.

I wasn't going to bring CH up, and just try to discuss the merits of this cert system as it stands, but now I will.

The most obvious solution for devs, DE's and all other players (customers) would be the CH model we already have in the game.

It already exists, it's being balanced with the CH revision, everyone already knows and understands how it works, it would let ANYONE who takes some DE skills use droids the same way anyone can take some CH skills and use creatures.

CL would be assigned to new combat droids as they are introduced according to their HAM and damage dealing abilities.

If a player has theChallenge Level and Called skills to use and call any number of droids, they can.

Anyone, regardless of profession or playstyle.

I don't understand why some people have such an aversion to this solution.

The only arguments I've heard against this solution fall in to 3 catagories:

1. I don't want to be a 'droid handler'.

That's just a term they don't like the sound of.
It doesn't mean anything.
It doesn't affect peoples ability to use or sell droids.

2. DE is a crafting profession ONLY.

True, but now we are adding higher level combat droids and people need to be able to use them.
Adding combat droids to the DE profession will not make it a combat profession.
People will simply take the DE skills to USE the droids, and then they will be able to do that.

3. DE-only combat droids will ruin the profession.

Not in any way that CH-only creatures ruin the CH profession.
Dabblers will enter the DE profession if it becomes popular in any case.
When experimentation is fixed, only real DE will be able to create great droids.

People will learn the skills to use tough combat droids.
DE will be able to sell combat droids to anyone who has the skills.
The entire line of combat droids will not be stuck to one profession, people will take the skills and use them.