Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: fools...selling a finished product that requires 8k units of resources for 15k is 1.8cpu

IceTigger
Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:33 pm
#27

Dantooine missions, minimum CL32. Current solo mission level I get from Naboo/Corellia terminals CL5 on one server CL14 on the other server. Fighting on Dantooine just means a quick trip to the cloning center. No thank-you.


The question, at least my understanding, is if it is foolish for someone to be selling an item that takes 8k of resources for 15k credits. That is considering that the resources used probably could have been sold for more then 15k. Yes it is true that the seller could have made more money selling the resources. But at the same time, they still would make a good size profit. As long as they are covering their costs, they can charge what they want and still come out ahead.


At this price, it is likely they could sell several times more product then if they charged a significantly higher price. In the long run, it is likely that they will make a bigger profit then another person charging more. Example, if person A sells 4 units of a product a day at 15k each that would be 60k per day. If person B sells 4 units of the same product a week at 24k, that would be 13.7k per day. This example may be a little inflated for demonstration purposes, but I think you can see the point. Use a slightly more complex financial model (accounting for product setting on the shelf as an example) and the second person may be taking a significant loss.


In the end, you really do not know why the person set the price as they did.
Sunfire1
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:57 pm
#28

If a person is making a profit, why hassle them? Lets look at resource prices if you have HQ miners and mine your own resources. All of these calculations are based on 70% resource concentration. Lets start with power. When I have my fusion generators on a 70% spot, I get 15,000 radioactives in 24 hours. In the same time, my harvester has used 1500 cash. So my power assuming PE of 500 or less cost .1 Credit per unit of power. Even less if radioactive if higher PE.


Now to other resources. All of my harvester will pull in 2400 units in 24 hours if the resource is at a 70% concentration. In that same time, the harvester will require 1450 cash and 1450 energy.


Before energy the resource has cost you 0.604 CPU (1450/2400). Add in the cost of power(145) and your total CPU is .66666 (1600/2400).


Now as the concentration of resources drops, your CPU climbs. But unless you are mining a spot under 50%, your CPU is still under 1.


Now throw in a factory run of say Adv Droid Brains (which require 3 factory runs @ .25 CPU or less on average, but .35 for brains due to factory running 3 times) and your cost to make an ADV R3 is around 1.1 CPU.


Its tough to always have the resources you need.But travel should only run around 0.1 CPU if you have your harvesters on high concentrations, and dont visit them every day.


Buying and selling resources is for suckers, or hologrinders. If you are a true crafter, you will always try to mine what you need yourself (in huge quantities). Then, even if you decide to sell a droid at 2 CPU, you still are making close to 100% profit.

CederickF
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:12 pm
#29

I have a question for all of you that are throwing a fullblown editfit about people undercutting the prices that you think you should be able to demand...


Do any of you EVER buy ANYthing from Wal*Mart?


If so, kindly back away from your keyboards and put some hot sauce on those feet you're eating.


Yes, you're playing a game that on many servers the economy is flooded. However the attitude being taken is completely trying to remove anyone without a million credits on their account at any given time completely from the scheme. Some of us don't find the aspect of making any money in the game all that interesting. I'd rather be out making just enough money to pay for buffs and armor breaking and having fun playing the game than trying to bust my hump to make an extra fourty thousand credits for one object it took someone 8K to build. That is an insane turn on profit comparable to make-up in real life. 100% profit is an insane turn around and you're flat out crying about it?


*sigh*



________________________________

Runzwiff Skissorz [A G], Novice Pistoleer/Doctor | Ahazi
SpaceCobra
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:36 pm
#30






Storex wrote:

Apparently, I'm one of those folk you think is a fool.


My resources cost me less than 1cpu to mine, and i sell my droids at about 2cpu... thats over 100% profit... Bill Gates would be proud !!.


.. And yes, i've taken into account re-deed costs, power, and maintenance on my three factories and two houses.



I'm sitting on an eight figure bank balance, and I LOVE the fact that people buy my stuff and get a use out of it. Have Fun !!





That is awesome. I think of anyone in this thread, you are the only one who has truly grasped how business works. Instead of whining about the competition is undercutting you, you have gone out there, figured out how low you could go and still make a profit, a 100% profit no less.


Now what I think is dumb, aside from the fact that artisans make vehicles (I mean, **edit**, put down the paint brush and pick up the monkeywrench, is that vehicles are made with large lumps of single type resources. Instead of crafting a bunch of smaller parts and building bigger parts and putting them together for the final vehicle.


Capitalism is a fascinating thing. Prices will go up and down. Demand will go up and down. You have to be willing to adapt. You have to be willing to take risks...and really, there aren't very hefty consequences to risks in a game because if you die, you get cloned. If you go bankrupt, you just start over without having to worry about starving or going homeless. It's because of those lack of hefty consequences that you become soft, resting on your laurels. You want the quick buck, and why not? It's just a game. You shouldn't have to work, right? You're not paying to work. On the other hand, it's also a competition. You don't see sports competitors sitting back and winning sporting events by putting forth little effort. The guy next to you in the 100 meter dash isn't going to slow down so you can catch up at the 50 meter point, he's going to leave you in the dust.


So geez, quit whining.




Cortez Sparo
Master Adventurer
Intrepid
DionDroids
Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:39 am
#31

My prices are right inbetween the under cutters and those of you selling R3's for 100k. I sell well and routinly buyout undersellers. However the extremes of 1.8 cpu is in my opinion counter-intuitive. Why undercut yourself in such a way I can only rationalize as being your only means of finding friends.


There are earnest flaws in the drawingrelationships between RL capitalism and the in-game economy.


-Secondary Money Sinks are minimal in-game whereas to the RL entrapenuer there are countless costs that dont directly support the business but have to be paid to live. i.e. Taxes, Living Costs(food, shelter, transportation), insurance, interest.


-There is no such thing as unemployment in-game. Anyone can pick up a blaster and keep their factories and harvestors from shutting down.


-In RL there are consumer reports/advocates, instant price comparisons (Internet based), massive amounts of advertising,and governmental consumer protection laws. In game communication and advertising are limited to what are in effect pop-up ads.


-In RL resources are actually finite in supply. The price of oil will only rise in the long term. In game a specific resource might not be available once every four months but you know it will come back.


-In RL people who have 10 figures in their bank tend to hire accountant types to keep watch on their finances so they know they are still profiting. In game it is difficult to graph profit margins, ecspecially when you are already sitting on a fortune.


-In RL businesses that are large enough to play the economies of scale game tend to have stock holders that demand the most possible on their investments. In game an individual is able to support business operations way out the ability of one person in RL. i.e. one person handling two sales points, advertising, mining, three factories and the potential of being shot enroute to a factory is well outside the means of an individual, you need a Haliburton size crew



"All Animals are Equal but Some Animals are More Equal than Others."

Dion MDE Naritus
Ke_la
Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:03 pm
#32


Some of us aren't whining about anything, we're merely pointing out that it is foolish to throw away money.


And that's exactly what you are doing if you sell a speeder for 15k when you could have sold the resources you used to make the speeder for 25k (or more).


Let's see... make more money for less effort... what was the question again?







This is exsacly the point why spend 1.1 CPU Based on Surfire's post plus your own time involed(how much is that worth?). When you can spend only 2/3 of a Credit (.66666 = 2/3) per unit vertually and No time(and it will get even less soon) and make even 2 cpu. Here is the real math. You are selling your Speeder at about 2 c/u it costs you about .8 cpu to make(plus extra time) the .8 is a guess cause you only need to do 1 factory run on the car, vers4 or 5 on an R3. So you make 1.2 cpu profit. You take thoughs same Materials and Firesale them at the SAME price. You will sell out in 20 mins as aposed to a week with a full vendor of speeders. and you make 1.33 CPU profit now it does not sound like much but it took you in time spent Harvesting, Making and Selling atleast twice as long as it would have just selling the reasouces. Probly more like 4 or 5 times as long, and you can sell reasouces with out even having artisin(just place your harvestor where ever you see a cluster of them) granted without artisin there is more risk envoled but you could also just have artisan and spend only 29 skillpoints and be just as good as any Artsin at survey and spend the rest on a Combate template and you could go out and Play fighter.




Ke'la Korian, Waylon Korien, Me'na Korien
Ke'la is a Master Rifleman/retireing Ranger and Waylon is an ID/DE
Me'na is the mayor of the City of Obalisic
"Have fun storming the castle". -- Miracle Max
"I knew it I am surrounded by %##@&!$# " -- Dark Helmet
"I am not Dead yet!" -- Guy from Holy Grail

Kollos
Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:29 am
#33

Some of us aren't whining about anything, we're merely pointing out that it is foolish to throw away money.


And that's exactly what you are doing if you sell a speeder for 15k when you could have sold the resources you used to make the speeder for 25k (or more).


Let's see... make more money for less effort... what was the question again?




Kollos Orcslayer : Master Droid Engineer : Master Artisan

Droids by Kollos -840, 3980 Seacht, Naboo (NW of Keren)
Bounty Hunter Droids by Kollos 4924, 6107 550m SW of Kaadara
Vehicles and Master Artisan Components also available
paying 250k/point for Droid Assembly Skill Tapes, minimum of +4

Gron_DM
Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:02 pm
#34

i can drop any resource on a bazaar for 1.8cpu and it will sell, as a matter of fact i have done this on some occasions to clear out the junk. I do not use 1.8cpu materials to make droids and i am well aware that the current cpu's on 13ber/10ber harvs is very low .5 or less...the bigger issue is droids as a commoditiy and crafters making more selling droids then resources. sure its good to get droids out in the community but undercutting is not the way to do it, going out in person talking to ppl and good word of mouth advertising is. heck i duel ppl in town with my droid and heal it to show how dangerous they can be, it works! Ppl arent aware how useful they are customer education is more critical then moving droids for less then grind resource CPU. Well maybe some of you feel that fact you are making money and selling droids is enough but remember there are many kinds of crafters and many cannotsurvive on selling droids for 2cpu and whether you chose to accept it or not you are making the game less pleasent for them. We are all in this together.


V.





Vilance -Retired from SWG
MDE for most of it, Guildleader as well
EGC Founding leader August 03
Corbantis
Founding Mayor Of Rhuidean, Tatooine
placed Nov 03.
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