Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Poll Do you want to be a crafter or a combat class?
TrueBoom wrote:
I'd like you to point out one single Weaponsmith or Armorsmith that think's they're a combatant.
Seriously though, what in anyone's mind makes them think a Droid ENGINEER is, or was ever meant to be a combat class? We're in the ARTISAN category, and we're not a hybrid class.
That alone should show the flaw in the logic of this discussion.
A DE has plenty of skill points left over if he wants to play with guns. Pick up Pistoleer and run around shooting things.
OK, let's talk logic.
CH 'make'combat pets and use them.
DE will nowmake combat 'pets' but they can't use them?
Is CH a combat profession or a support profession?
Is the base professionyou branch off from the only requirement
for the type of elite profession you become?
This profession is CHANGING.
We've never been able to make high level combat droids.
Now we will.
That may mean our role will change.
I have Marksman. K?
If I want to 'make' and use combat creatures I take CH.
If I want to make and use combat droids I take............???
DE plus some other unnamed profession?
We'regoing to make up a new profession just to use droids?
Or I get free droid usage skills just by taking Novice or Master Marksman?
I don't have to spend any more SP to gain these extra skills?
Think people would like some free combat creature skills too?
What we also need to look at is what's the most efficient and expedient means of getting these features into the game. Because that's what the devs will be looking at.
Are they going to put alot of time and effort into designing a totally new profession?
Or trying to balance placing numerous new certs into several other professions?
Or perhaps just trying to work skills into one branch of one skill tree?
And look at it this way.
CH can tame 'normal' pets.
BE can now make exceptionalpets.
CH can use these exceptionalpets.
CH takes a few more SP than DE.
What if DE takes a few less SP than CH, but can only use normal (droid) pets?
(I believe that for now, all combat droids will probably coincide with normal CH pets levels)
(No uber droids yet)
Would that be somewhat balanced compared to the other profession that can make and use combat pets?
My Vote: Crafter
I believe that everyone should have the ability to use Combat Droids with some sort of certification systemfor all, with DE having some special abilities. DE shouldn't become a Creature Handler in droid form. Just because we know how to manufacture droids, doesn't mean we understand combat tactics to a degree that other professions could.
I would like to see some special abilities given to Squad Leaders in regards to orchastrating a "droid army". 
Sodan,
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
The poll questions hacks the issue into extremes. Some folks, like me, want to be able to craft and kick butt. It s a matter of playstyle, and ine person's playstyle should not be dictated by another.
Once again, you summarize the answer very well.
The best answer to the poll is:
I want the possibility (and flexibility) to do both.
I want to craft AND I want to be able to be a combatant.
I do not believe that we are in an either/or situation. There has to be room for both playstyles to exist.
/bow
Respectfully,
Thanks, TheRealTK421. You know my sig shows a very balanced crafting and combat character:
Master Droid Engineer, Master Artisan
Novice Pistoleer, Guardsman, Field Stabalizer, Explorer
But lately I have been going for Master Merchant and dropping the combat skills. I find I like/need combat droids in either setup. As a hybrid combat character I need combat droids to help me kick butt. As a pure crafter character I need combat droids to save my butt.
I like playing both styles. They are both fun in their own way. And you can try both with one character oever time.
Why anyone thinks their style is better than anyone esle's is beyond me. Don't use combat droids if your a pacifist; but don't try to deny them to others as well.
Did you guys ever watch that movie Judge Dred or whatever it was called with sylvester stalone? The droid engineer in that film was a complete wimp, but he hacked himself an archaic war droid to kick ass for him. He was able to disable it in combat after being shot and then reprogrammed it! He was squeeling like a big when he got shot! lol!
Doesn't help to think outside the box either. Just 'cause DE started as a more crafting oriented profession doesn't mean it cannot be changed. The devs manufacture game reality. And the reality is, DE is going to be a hybrid combat profession. Fits well with the game too, where most of the action is in combat. I plan to send in my Droideka and hide around the corner, then /chuckle as I go to empty my harvs.
Finally, combat droids are very consistent with the SW universe where most droids are combat droids, if you consider the volume of droid armies. It takes A LOT of droids to take over NABOO folks.
I'm with Sodan and TheRealTk421 here.
My vote: Hybrid
Right now we are not strictly a combat or an artisan class. Just because we come from the artisan line does not mean we are strictly an artisan class(probots negate this), just like CH and BE are not strictly scout classes because they come from the scout line.
What I want: Effective combat droids, to use and to sell. Effective does not mean "uber," I am not looking to solo nightsisters here.Hypothetically, if we had combat droids that were on par with MCH pets, what would the point of the CH class be then? Would it ever be needed then? It wouldn't. The devs have made changes to stop the pet wars, and I do not think they want this to become the droid wars either. For those who do high level PvP, MCH pets can help out a lot when used correctly, and lower level pets (above the non-CH pets and lower than MCH pets) are a nuisance and do not make any significant difference in PvP combat. That's what I'm looking for here, a happy medium.
These are what I would want to be these conditions on new combat droids:
■ Make them effective (as I will repeat again, not "uber" as so many are panicked to believe). Effectiveto the point that they are better than the current probot, but not near the level of a MCH pet.
■ Droid Certifications. This is to avoid the pre-nerf probot situation and petwars/droidwars, which would allow us to have effective combat droids. As many have stated before, a 3 cert system, one for everyone, one for novice elite combat class and one for master combat class. A MDE should be able to use any combat droid (why this is so I'll get to later). Also to make sure the lvl 3 cert is in the MDE box, as to prevent dabblers (if they wanted the 2nd lvl cert, it'd be just as easy to get a novice combat class than get novice DE)
Now, why should MDEs be able to use any combat droid? "But but Eric, we are crafters! We do not have combat skills, we make things!" and also "But but Eric, why don't master weaponsmiths get to use their highest weapons then!? Why wouldn't they get to use them if we get to use our combat droids???" It's a fundamental difference in the products we create. In real life, I know how to use firearms, from a tiny .32 caliber to a large .50 cal handguns to a 12 gage shotgun. But I don't know how to make them. From a woodshop class I took once I learned how to make a bow, but I have absolutely no idea how to use this. "But but Eric, doesn't this prove what Ive said? You've had no training in the thing you made! why would you get to know how to use it then???"No, it doesn't, because of a fundamental difference in droids to other craftables (weapons). Droids have brains. They can act independently- everyone can use them. Droid certs are only a way to prevent a per-nerf probot situation and petwars/droidwars. With our extensive knowledge of droids, we should know how to use each and every type of them.
/takesbreath 
TheRealTK421 wrote:
The best answer to the poll is:
I want the possibility (and flexibility) to do both.
I want to craft AND I want to be able to be a combatant.
I do not believe that we are in an either/or situation. There has to be room for both playstyles to exist.
Ok, but let me ask you this: Do you guys not see the HUGE balance issue here?
There are 30 people here saying "I want to craft AND kick butt." What makes you think that this is fair and balanced in any way, shape or form?
You are saying that you want DE to keep all the huge sales and money making abilities that it currently has, AND get the ability to control high powered droids like CH. Basically you are saying you want DE to become the equivalent of a CH AND [insert other crafter class here], all for 1/2 the skill point and experience requirements of both professions individually.
You are saying that you think this will give the crafter the ability to do both. I wholeheartedly disagree. Making DE into a CH/crafter turns it into a HUGE bargain for all players. The skill points limits that currently limit players to (1) uber combatant (all skill points on combat); great business man (ex: DE/master artisan/merchant); or a dabbler in both (but by no means an expert in either) will be totally circumvented. This means that everyone who wants to craft and combat, as well as all the "uber doods" who want cool droids to shoot stuff with, will all become DE using only a minimal skill point investment. Who, exactly, will be left to sell droids to? With the current droid plan, which adds ABSOLUTELY NO droid functionality to current droids, who will be left to buy droids?
So, here's my point: Do you REALLY think that devs are going to allow us to become the biggest skill point bargain in the game, having both huge combat ability AND crafting ability? I would say not. I would say, at best, DEs are going to get some mediocre droid pets that are equivalent to the former gurrecks everyone used. From experience, I know that you can't kill anything worthwhile with a gurreck, and it is good for little more than a tank.
Think about this: I once had a gurreck that I spent 40k for... Which would you rather have, (1) a gurreck that only you can use, and that doesn't do you any good unless you spend a bunch of skill points on combat skills as well so you can kill the mob before it kills your droid, or (2) a gurreck that everyone, including you, can use, but that you can make and sell for 40k.
If given the choice...I choose #2.
p.s. As for the balance issue of everyone with a gurreck-like-droid, I make 2 points. (1) Devs nerfed non-CH creatures partially because people were complaining about poke***. No one would complain about everyone running around with a droid. (2) There is nothing preventing the devs from putting a cert. for gurreck-like-droids in elite professions to preserve balance.
Crafter-only.
EricTheGreat wrote:
My vote: Hybrid
Yikes! Be careful with this word...every other hybrid class take 3 times as many skill points to master.We don't need devs deciding to turn us into a hybrid class and instill a bunch of extra prereqs on us. I would prefer "Crafter with a perk."
Quote:
Effective does not mean "uber," I am not looking to solo nightsisters here.Hypothetically, if we had combat droids that were on par with MCH pets, what would the point of the CH class be then? Would it ever be needed then? It wouldn't. The devs have made changes to stop the pet wars, and I do not think they want this to become the droid wars either. For those who do high level PvP, MCH pets can help out a lot when used correctly, and lower level pets (above the non-CH pets and lower than MCH pets) are a nuisance and do not make any significant difference in PvP combat. That's what I'm looking for here, a happy medium.
A gurreck, a tank, in other words... I agree with this. /sign The problem I have with the discussion in this thread is all the people saying "leave the class the same, just give me the ability to kick butt too." Kicking butt = highpower pets= not going to be an option. What we will end up with if this is that mistaken belief people have, is no further sales ability and a sub-par tank. This will make no one happy.
Quote:
These are what I would want to be these conditions on new combat droids:
■ Make them effective (as I will repeat again, not "uber" as so many are panicked to believe). Effectiveto the point that they are better than the current probot, but not near the level of a MCH pet.
■ Droid Certifications. This is to avoid the pre-nerf probot situation and petwars/droidwars, which would allow us to have effective combat droids. As many have stated before, a 3 cert system, one for everyone, one for novice elite combat class and one for master combat class. A MDE should be able to use any combat droid (why this is so I'll get to later). Also to make sure the lvl 3 cert is in the MDE box, as to prevent dabblers (if they wanted the 2nd lvl cert, it'd be just as easy to get a novice combat class than get novice DE)
I have always liked this idea... I don't know why it hasn't gotten more attention...oh wait...devs don't care what we think. *sigh*
I would also add the additional droid thing:
All: 1 non-combat droid
novice elite: 1 weak combat droid
novice DE: 2 droids of any type(including 2 weak combat droids)
master elite: 1 strong (I use this term losely) combat droid
master DE: 2 droids of any type(including 2strong combat droids)
BlueMorgoth wrote:
Well I was not going to play in this thread, but now that Drashk has stickied it, I should probably put in an opinion:
Thanks Blue.Polls like this one make it a lot easier for me to do what it was that I was picked to do. If at some point I have a DEV ask me 'Well what does your community thinkof such and suchissue?' I will have a place that I can turn to and give them the numbers to back it up. With that said....Come on people, let your voices be heard and post already.
(And don't give me the line of bull 'Well the DEVs don't listen to us!' If you want me to do my 'job' then help me do it right.)
Daker-Naritus wrote:
I would also add the additional droid thing:
All: 1 non-combat droid
novice elite: 1 weak combat droid
novice DE: 2 droids of any type(including 2 weak combat droids)
master elite: 1 strong (I use this term losely) combat droid
master DE: 2 droids of any type(including 2strong combat droids)
Daker,
Doesn't the item in yellow (above) kind of bypass your stated concern on allowing the profession to become "crafters that kick butt"?!?
In the spirit of not allowing us to have the best of all worlds, I'd suspect that the items you put forth above can't happen.
I personally do not want to see us forced to be a "pure" crafter class (with NO combat abilities). I also don't want us to be crafters with "uber droids". We know this won't happen because it's simply the past CH problem all over again.
I guess I just don't see what the right answer is yet...but I know that a good compromise answer IS out there somewhere.
This particular aspect of our profession's future is perhaps the single most difficult, and at the same time important, issue that we have EVER talked about...
We must all do our best to carefully consider how to do this right the first time.
/bow
Respectfully,