Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: 110 Combat Modules question.
Wirebiter
Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:34 pm
#14
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Ok, I just realized something. If what you said is true, and 650 is Max Conductivity on Steel, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a 20 rated harvesting module.
I thought TK was saying he made them on TC.
That's kind of crappy if we can't. I have goals of what I want to make, a 120 Harvesting droid was one of them, sigh.
I'm going off the database numbers from SWGcraft. Someone there crunched all the data from the differant servers and extrappolated the ranges for the different classes of Steel, copper, etc.. The Durralloy steel always falls below 650 in conductivity. The Poly-steel Copper is the highest conductivity/OQ copper that spawns. The same holds true for differant resources like Iron and Aluminnum.I believe no server has ever spawned greater than 650 conduct steel. Going with that, then yeah, there is no 120 rated modules like we think. I believe that 115 or 116 is a better estimate, but I gots no proof
garvin
Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:12 am
#15
The only 110 Combat Modules I know of were made during that 1 night of the Crafting Change before they reverted it back to the old system...
The reason I know this is because that night I was testing out some of the changes and tried making some Combat Modules (was a new Master DE at the time) and did a factory run of some 110 Combat Modules...since I was new, I really didn't know they were the max and didn't doa huge run...
I've been able to make a few550 Probots on Valcyn, but I make them sparingly (as not to hurt the droid market)...Most of my 110 Modules are currently being saved for use down the road...
Since that night, the best I've been able to craft is around 105 as well...
Straker_Atrella
Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:17 am
#16
Ok, I don't feel like my Probots are sub-standard anymore then 
Thx
Malitevv
Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:47 am
#17
on the day that the combat modules were first introduced they also introduced a "temporary" change to the crafting system. most everyone was oppossed to the change because it made it harder to create high quality items in most cases, so they rolled back the crafting changes 24 hours later.
but, there were some items for whichyou could get a maximum quality item without hitting 100% on the experimentation with those crafting changes. the new droid combat module was one of them. DE's who crafted their combat modules on that first day were able to hit 110 on the combat modules without getting 100% experimentation. DE's who were lucky enough to craft manufacturing schematics on that day could very well stillhave 110 rated combat modules in stock today.
edit: and I see someone has already explained this. 
Message Edited by Malitevv on 07-19-2004 12:48 PM
Straker_Atrella
Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:37 am
#18
Yea, that sucks.
Tk steel is what we are talking about, on TC, did you have OQ 1000 and Cnd 1000 steel?
From just looking at the %'s when I make them, I have a ways to go, yea my copper and gas can be a little better, but I thought my limiting factor was steel. If it's true and my Steel is uber, then it's not looking good.
Wirebiter
Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:58 am
#19
It could be possible that the Steel's conductivity is weighed more than the other resource's stats. So a 10 point raise in steel conductivity would do more for you than a 10 point raise in say inert gas OQ. Its just a thought, but it seems like it would make sense to me.
/shrug
MachineZed
Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:20 am
#20
I am going to chime in and say yes, Choda. It seems that because theirare3 recources that OQ matter, and only 2 that rely on Con. I made a couple of Auto-Repair modules yesterday. I just bought some older Ylo Duralloy, it had a lesser OQ then the normal stuff I had been using, but the modules came out better, because the Conwas just a little higher. The Aluminium, Gas was the same as before.
Obo_alCan
Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:23 am
#21
It has to do with how much of each resource is used.
For the creature harvest module, the resource costs are:
55 Steel
50 Copper
20 Inert Gas
So the stats on the gas are less important than on the other two. Since steel is needed more, that's why it's Con is so important.
For the creature harvest module, the resource costs are:
55 Steel
50 Copper
20 Inert Gas
So the stats on the gas are less important than on the other two. Since steel is needed more, that's why it's Con is so important.
Straker_Atrella
Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:32 pm
#22
Right, yea that is how I always figured it worked, I figured it worked like this.
Steel OQ 990 cnd 600
Copper OQ 990 Cnd 990
Inert Gas OQ 985
55 - steel means 55 x 990 = 54450 cnd 55 x 600 = 33000
50 -copper means 50 x 990 = 49,500 for both OQ and CND
20 - Inert Gas - 20 x985 = 19700for OQ
Now they all get added up for the final calculations,
54450 + 49,500 + 19700 = 123,650 for OQ
33,000 + 49,500 = 82,500 for CND
Now it "may" stop here and these numbers are used for the final calculations, or it goes one step farther, calculating it back down to an Average OQ and CND rating.
OQ = 123, 650 / 125 = 989.2 OQ
CND = 82,500 / 105 = 785.71 CND
So I am agreeing with what you said, that the Steel is by far the most important thing, for 2 reasons. More Steel is used, and because the CND on the Steel is weighed heavier because the Gas doesn't have any.
This is why I am bummed out, if Steel CND does cap out at or near 650, it doesn't seem possible we can hit 20 rated crafting modules.
Wow, I just realized something as I typed that. The only time people have ever hit 20 was on TC, but that was DURING the new crafting system. So just like Combat Modules were able to be made better then, maybe Harvs too? So with the current system, 110 or 111 may be the best we can realistically hope for.
Malitevv
Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:23 pm
#23
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Right, yea that is how I always figured it worked, I figured it worked like this.
Steel OQ 990 cnd 600
Copper OQ 990 Cnd 990
Inert Gas OQ 985
55 - steel means 55 x 990 = 54450 cnd 55 x 600 = 33000
50 -copper means 50 x 990 = 49,500 for both OQ and CND
20 - Inert Gas - 20 x985 = 19700for OQ
Now they all get added up for the final calculations,
54450 + 49,500 + 19700 = 123,650 for OQ
33,000 + 49,500 = 82,500 for CND
Now it "may" stop here and these numbers are used for the final calculations, or it goes one step farther, calculating it back down to an Average OQ and CND rating.
OQ = 123, 650 / 125 = 989.2 OQ
CND = 82,500 / 105 = 785.71 CND
So I am agreeing with what you said, that the Steel is by far the most important thing, for 2 reasons. More Steel is used, and because the CND on the Steel is weighed heavier because the Gas doesn't have any.
This is why I am bummed out, if Steel CND does cap out at or near 650, it doesn't seem possible we can hit 20 rated crafting modules.
Wow, I just realized something as I typed that. The only time people have ever hit 20 was on TC, but that was DURING the new crafting system. So just like Combat Modules were able to be made better then, maybe Harvs too? So with the current system, 110 or 111 may be the best we can realistically hope for.
That is close to the way I think it works, but I would modify the calculation as follows. In stead of multiplying the number of each resource by the rating of the stat, multiply it by the rating for that stat divided by the max possible value that thatresource typecan havefor that stat. The developers once mentioned somewhere that the adjust forresources that have low max values for a stat, when its not possible for that resource to have a rating of 1000 for the given stat. Unfortunately I can't point you at a link, but they have said this before in general discussions on crafting.
55 - steel means 55 x 990/1000 cnd 55 x 600/STEEL_COND_CAP
50 -copper means 50 x 990/1000 for both OQ and CND
20 - Inert Gas - 20 x985/1000for OQ
Then sum these results for each stat of importance and divide by the total resource count.
so for OQ:
( 55 x 990/1000 + 50 x 990/1000 + 20 x 985/1000 ) / ( 55 + 50 + 20 )
and for cond:
( 55 x 600/STEEL_COND_CAP + 50 x 990/1000 ) / ( 55 + 50 )
Multiply these results by the corresponding percentage for each stat and add them together. That will give you a number from 0 to 1, where 1 means you are going to hit the max rating. The trouble, is that even if this is correct, we've no way of knowing what the steel conductivity cap actually is.
I can't proof this is right, butit definitely is right in those cases where the caps on the stats for each resource are known to be 1000. If you apply this methodology to the MSE droid for example, you will always be able to exactly predict the best HAM that any set of resources will give you for that droid. And given that the formula works in the cases where all caps are 1000, it seems likely that the general formula is as above since the developers have mentioned that the formula does take stat caps on resources into account, and the above is the simplest way to take those things into account. /shrug
In other words, I don't think you have to worry that the low conductivity on steel is going to prevent you from getting the best rating for these modules.
Straker_Atrella
Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:41 pm
#24
I know what your saying but, from what I can see, that doesn't seem to be working.
My Copper is 999/925
My Gas is 977
My Steel is 987/639
Very little room to grow right there, yea my copper could be a tad better though. If as you say, it would calculate out that 650 for steel(not verified,) it would seem I "should" be getting higher then the 88% I am right now.
For example, I can hit I think 95% maybe more with Combat modules, with only using that Copper and Gas. My end rating is 105. If what you are saying is true, then my Steel is much closer to max then my copper, but if I use the steel instead in the combat modules, they get worse.
I hope that makes sense, but that seems to directly counterdict it taking a steels max CND into account.
Malitevv
Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:57 pm
#25
Straker_Atrella wrote:
I know what your saying but, from what I can see, that doesn't seem to be working.
My Copper is 999/925
My Gas is 977
My Steel is 987/639
Very little room to grow right there, yea my copper could be a tad better though. If as you say, it would calculate out that 650 for steel(not verified,) it would seem I "should" be getting higher then the 88% I am right now.
For example, I can hit I think 95% maybe more with Combat modules, with only using that Copper and Gas. My end rating is 105. If what you are saying is true, then my Steel is much closer to max then my copper, but if I use the steel instead in the combat modules, they get worse.
I hope that makes sense, but that seems to directly counterdict it taking a steels max CND into account.
It only contradicts if you assume that the maxon steel conductivity is 650, which is hardly certain. If you assume that themax on conductivity for steel is 760 for example, you get 88% from the stats you've provided, which is exactly what you are observing. /shrug
Also, I wouldn'tuse the max value for the stat of the type of resource you choose to place in the box for the cap in the formula. that doesn't make sense. For the cap you should use the max value for the stat taken accross all types of resources that could have been placed in the box. so if both copper and steel fit in the box, the cap on conductivity used in the formula would still be 1000 even if you put steel in, because you could have put copper.
Message Edited by Malitevv on 07-20-2004 05:01 PM
Straker_Atrella
Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:30 pm
#26
Ok that actually makes sense then. Yea if you can use Copper in it then a 1000 cap would apply, didn't think of that.
I don't know what the cap on Steel is, but across all the servers, if it was much higher then 650, don' t you think we would have seen some?