Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Please help me understand your change of heart.
So, we are being told that we can either be a Bio-engineer or a Creature Handler clone?
I truely wish that droids weren't so modeled after creature handlers. Pets have ruled this game - and droids have taken the back seat. And now, we must still take the back seat.
I don't see why this cert system wouldn't work. if you will take the time to read the system, you will see that it is the more powerful combat classes that get to use the best droids. DE's and Squad leaders get some extra points, but consider - squad leaders are in need of some love anyway, and a DE, who needs the entire master artisan tree and some merchant skills, just isn't that hard to kill.
TheWoody wrote:
Aye... something more akin to smugglers rather than CHs is another alternative suggested out there.
Indeed. Granted, most DEs would rather see everyone use combat droids.
But if it came down to a seperate Droid Handler profession or making DE the Droid Handler profession, I wonder what most people would pick?
If those are the options TH is laying out for is.. well, I want to use the droids I make.
-norax
Thunderheart, I agree with your idea to make a DH profession for the heavy combat droids.
You should explain to the community, why you can't give crafters powerful combatdroids, and why you can't give combat professions certs for powerful combat droids. The whole balance would be destroyed. The de's said they want to be a crafter profession. But they don't understand why you can't make their cert system.
So all you have to do is explain exactly why the only way to implent heavy combat droids is a DH profession.
When we say we don't want to BE a creature handler clone, that doesn't mean that we want SOMEONE ELSE to be a creature handler clone. It means we believe that droids are machines that follow orders well enough to act as a bodyguard for virtually anyone. It means that if we're going to get combat droids, we don't want them just for ourselves. We want them for the wider community. If a complicated and difficult certification system must be put into place and tested extensively, so be it.
Quite frankly, I think the overemphasis on combat droids is a mistake all on it's own. We've had enormously long discussions here about really fantastic new functions droids could play, but again, it all seems to come down to hack and blast.
What happened to the certification system we discussed back in the day? That has very widespread support in the community. If you think it can't work, you're not thinking far enough outside the box. If six months were wasted balancing creatures, well, that's too bad. Creatures play a very small role in the star wars world, particularly in episodes 4-6. All the time spent on creatures should have been spent on droids, because DROIDS ARE WHAT MAKES STAR WARS.
Well perhaps a good question to ask is this then.
"Would you (the player base) be willing to accept having less powerful droids if the cert system was intergrated, and not put ina separate profession?"
In other words, the best droid available to a Master Pistoleer would be a Level 25 or so. So not useless, but not overpowering.
I'm fairly positive that the majority of DEs would accept less "uber" (but still useful) droids in exchange for no DH profession
Thunderheart wrote:
Sketh wrote:
This is not a change of heart.
Please see Drashak's cert system proposed here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=52473
THAT is what we wanted, not a droid handler class.
That is probably not possible, though I will find out.
Droid Certs wont work because there are so many combat class combinations that some one will inevitably find an uber-combo with a powerful droid.
Faction Droids are planned, but they are down the road a bit.
why? even the 2 idiots from the trade fed had droidekas at thier command. I really dont think a DH class would help the star wars theme. What people are looking for is a way to bring droids into everyones lives. I sell about 1-2 probots a week.. but when iget asked do i think its a good combat droid i have to honestly say no. i use to it take the beating while i hop on my swoop and ride away. I think every could agree on drashaks cert system it seems the most fair. Tobalance maybe a non stacking issue could be used?
hi,
Well i understand, that we connot anybody with any skill a high class combat droid. but i think also that somebady who created, designed, and crafted things, should know how do use it.
so lets make it, that the MDEs can use ALL droids, and non DEs can use some light-combat droids.
sorry for that bad english 
(im german)
so far.....
Neehivi
Thunderheart, at least you're trying. Right now I can say I'm not to impressed with what happened. You've read the posts, attended meetings and have had a lot of communication from the DE class as a whole, yet you still posted that we wanted a DH profession when it was clear (to myself and others at least) that it is what we did not want. I feel somewhat betrayed by your post, as well I'm feeling a lot of hostility and anger towards it, however I will try to keep my post constructive. You are a person afterall. 
Combat droids have their role in the SWG universe. But there's a whole host of other droid functions that we aren't really concentrating on. Combat droids are a sensative issue because of the fact that there are some in the game, but they're too powerful to give to everyone. Understandable. That's why a certification system or point system was suggested, not a seperate DH handler class.
Regarding the concept of a DH profession. It just does not make sense to me. Using an analogy I found on the WH boards, the limit on CH pets is like everyone owning a cat or a dog, however anyone cannot own an elephant or lion. Comparing that with droids and our current examples, everyone can use a pocket calculator and everyone can use a computer. Instead of a DH profession, why not split it up among all the professions out there? Allot certain points for each skill and then after a certain point you can control a higher level of droid. For example, a Master BH should have more points (they've mastered marksman, scout and BH) over a dabbler who just goes up the BH pistol line. That in itself would give a much needed boost to Master BH. Different skills would get different points alloted to them, along with some unique droid certifications (for example, somewhere in the tailor line you get the certification to use a sewing machine droid for no skill points). This whole concept can easily be implemented, as it's somewhat implemented with the current CH profession, and all that it would take is some meetings with in-game players, some balancing from the development team and then to add the points to the different professions.
That said, the cert system we propose (which Drashk detailed) involves all professions based on their relative level. Also, I would personally not want to make a droid I couldn't control, that wouldn't make sense.
Worst case scenario: If there's going to be any Droid Handling around here, I want to be the one doing it! Creature handlers are capable of obtaining and controling pets far more powerful than anything we might build for cost of 14 more skill points. REAL Droid Engineers need to be Master Artisans anyway so de facto CHs get off easy.
Exactly. It might be worthwhile to scrap the entire combat suggestion for now and work on giving is more useful functional droids (although, I'd really love to see Master BHs with IG-88s....).
Droid_Engineer_Rho wrote:
Quite frankly, I think the overemphasis on combat droids is a mistake all on it's own. We've had enormously long discussions here about really fantastic new functions droids could play, but again, it all seems to come down to hack and blast.
Here's a novel concept TH,
Read OUR FREAKING FORUM.
Read the posts by our correspondent posted on the Correspondent Forum.
Then tell us how you could have possibly EVER come up with the idea that we support a Droid Handler profession.
Yes, we disagree with how a cert or droid type tree should work for combat droids, but for over 6 months we have agreed that YOU (SOE Devs) need to fix our profession instead of trying to dangle more sparkly bits in front of us while making us northing more than mechanical versions of BE/CHs.
Droid Engineers are supposed to be a huge part of what SWG is all about and instead we've been LIED to over and over BYYOU specifically. (How many months late have all of your promises been?) So please help us understand how you can possibly say with a straight face to any of us that you've read our forum, read both of our Correspondents postings in the Correspondent forum over time and think that DEs want ANY of what you are proposing in terms of DH class.
So, please just fess up to what the real deal is, and stop feeding us lies. If you are going to force DH down our throats regardless what the community wants, then tell us. If none of our bug fixes are going to happen, tell us. If none of the LOGICAL enhancements we've been posting FOR MONTHS are going to happen, but instead be replaced by this lame DH profession, at least be honest about it.
Be up front, stop equivocating and missing deadlines. You have no credibility when it somes to DEs these days as you have time and time again failed to follow through on ANY of your promises. Earn some credibility and be honest and tell us the truth. Don't tell us you can't share secret information about new expansion upgrades or how DH will really rock, tell us the unfettered truth.
I'm sorry I have to be harsh, but you deserve it. Communicate or get off the pot.
We've given you hundreds of well thought out ways in which to improve this class, and our correspondent(s) has presented you with the REAL desires of OUR Community for months. How about implementing or telling us WHY you CAN'T implement them in a TECHNICAL discussion.
As a master merchant and master droid engineer I eager await you answer, because it will speak volumes to the integrity or lack thereof of you specifically and SOE in general.
D'Ruk of iD Co, Corbantis.
Droid_Engineer_Rho wrote:
Where is/was the outcry from the Droid Engineering community, asking that a new Droid Handler profession be introduced? I don't recall ever reading anything of the sort.
When we say we don't want to BE a creature handler clone, that doesn't mean that we want SOMEONE ELSE to be a creature handler clone. It means we believe that droids are machines that follow orders well enough to act as a bodyguard for virtually anyone. It means that if we're going to get combat droids, we don't want them just for ourselves. We want them for the wider community. If a complicated and difficult certification system must be put into place and tested extensively, so be it.
Quite frankly, I think the overemphasis on combat droids is a mistake all on it's own. We've had enormously long discussions here about really fantastic new functions droids could play, but again, it all seems to come down to hack and blast.
What happened to the certification system we discussed back in the day? That has very widespread support in the community. If you think it can't work, you're not thinking far enough outside the box. If six months were wasted balancing creatures, well, that's too bad. Creatures play a very small role in the star wars world, particularly in episodes 4-6. All the time spent on creatures should have been spent on droids, because DROIDS ARE WHAT MAKES STAR WARS.
/agree