Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: CHs Use, Create by Taming and SELL Their Pets. DEs Should Too.
Pluto9Moon wrote:
Sure you would Shian if your pet (scuse me driod) is going to do kinetic damage and go in and tank. Everyone sez they dont use probots. I do 2 CL35 Graul Maul and a probot. Why you may ask. More damage and i guarantee you like the argument SOE is giving if you cert one tree in DE of bots. Im there. Im going to DH too if that comes jut to defend myself. But what one artisan tree and one DE tree? lol. Ill give up master medic for that. 2 CL35 Graul and 2CL25-35 Droids? lol get for real CH is pretty weak now and that would rock. BUT if i gotta use more SP to go DH and jump around to get those Droids then hey i gotta choose more carefully now.
and i notice Sodan you made no mention of the BE and the currently similarities between you and they as a crafting profession and how this fuzzy logic will lead to CH disappearing and BE's and DE's make and use their own bots. which reduces you still to making bots you have little market for, seekers arkyds and medbots.
I'm through debating you, Pluto The proposal is to make Master Artisan a prerequisite, not just one branch of the artisan skill tree. Its a question of balance; under GnomeAd and I's proposal, DEs have to spend more than CHs to build an use their droids.
The CH and BE professions are unfortunate artifacts of the devs imaginations. Dont ruin our profession in the same manner of ruin concieved of for BE.
Does anyone else who has read the proposal have any feedback or suggestions?
Either way ill sign off on it the button pushing to get to master DE not a problem. Im mining resources now just in case. Ill just be CH (106) and DE (140). Man i hope you guys win this debate in so many ways. Cause then i just give seekers to my BH alt. He can be the medic with his 30 left over points. Two boxing is what you have to do to be Uber my friends. Like gnome sed you can be combat one minute and crafting the next. Hey i know maybe the Devs can give the CH's the ability to craft in three trees just to make their own stuff too, we dont make money either.
Sorry but I have to agree with everyone else who's against this.
In that you are basically being a whiney fool who wants it all and doesnt understand the Creature Handler profesion.
CHs can tame pets for free, essentially, their own form of crafting.
Ok, you can't have it both ways. You say that after the patch CHs aren't powerful anymore. The you say that if we get CL50-60 combat droids, we will be? How does that make sense? In the grand scheme of things, a CL50 or so pet isn't going to make you the l33t d00d you want, especially since you can only have one of them out at a time.
As for the argument that you can be an MCH and an MDE at the same time, I say so what. As long as they combine the CL count, it won't matter. If you're a CH/DE you won't be able to call over your max pet CL of either type. Then, you can just choose which type of pet you want.
GnomeAd wrote:
It really doesn't, and I think this goes right to the crux of why there are a lot of DEs that hate this idea. Just because you have a cert to use a combat droid, doesn't mean you have to use it. Just because you can make something, doesn't mean you have to sell it either.
I don't think you quite got the point I was referring to. In order to keep things balanced, if combat skills are put in to the DE trees utility/crafting skills must be taken out (the whole idea of making a new pre-requisite isn't going to happen, there are too many DE's without master artisan, how would you handle those?). Furthermore, you will get new people becomming DE's that are in it primarily for the combat droids (granted most of them will have some interest in the utility portion, they will primarily be focused on the combat, and the DEV's will find they are much easier to please than the people who want more utility.
DE is a tough grind.
In comparison to what? Its quicker than any combat profession, quicker than weaponsmith/armorsmith/tailor, and less resources than architect.
Making MDE is a feat that anyone should be proud of. Most of the template chasers that would come into DE as a result of the droids will not make it past the 1st or 2nd skill blocks. Why should they spend their time sitting around grinding out MSE droids when they would rather be out fighting. They won't like it and they won't stay. The grind to MCH is much more fun and they'll go back there first.
As I stated above, the people I'm worried about are the people who will go through all of it, they will have some fun with the crafting, but when the day is finished they will see it as a combat profession and push to make it more of a combat profession.
It won't be any worse than the holo grinders and they will be off again.
I don't know how things are on your server, but holo grinders have screwed everything up horrendously on Tarquinas. A decent number of them sell off stuff to make some cash back, that wouldn't be a problem if they had any clue what they were doing. They misrepresent what droids do, guess at random things, and outright lie to the customer. I've had quite a few people now decide not to buy any more droids because a holo-grinder ripped them off with an LE to repair their vehicle, or a surgical droid to heal them in the field....
I get the feeling that most DEs who want to be crafters only want to make money from droids, right?
I can't speak for the rest of the people on my side of the issue, but I can say is my argument is not motivated by money. I've got more money than I know what to do with and don't use most/any of it. I want to keep DE crafting only because thats where I see the most diversity and interest in the profession. We've already got plenty of combat profesions, we don't need to turn this in to another one.
Either way, I just don't see it happening in a big way. If they were to implement the cert plan, yeah, we'd make a killing, but they're not going to do that. If they implement the DH plan, it will be a big flop because there just won't be enough content to keep people in the profession. Again, we'll be shut out of the market. I just don't see how we can have a steady revenue stream from combat droids. We need to accept the fact they the devs won't be implementing any cert system to allow more that one profession to use combat droids, we can move on and look to how we want it done. We can either give them to the DH class, or keep them ourselves. Those are the choices we have and we need to decide which we want.
I aggree with you here, the only conflict is between those who want a strong crafting profession or those who want a watered down crafting and watered down combat proffession merged to one.
CapnSteve wrote:
"Lets break it down: CHs can tame pets for free, essentially, their own form of crafting. They SELL these pets as mounts, charge extra to train for those who need it, and generally have made more money than DEs."
That's a load of crap. Unless they were VERY lucky and got a piece of the mount hysteria, Creature Handlers are not making much money.
The money making is not the point, man. Work with me here. CHs made a killing on mounts and selling to CH dabblers. The point is not the money making ability, but the fact that they can "create" and use their own pets. We DEsshould be able to do so too - especially in light of the master artisan and other depenencies, cost and time needed to craft; as opposed to running around on your speederbike, calling a rancor for protection and taming a baby rancor for free.
I like Gnome-ads proposal: Make Master Artisan a prerequisite. Cap droid pets at lvl 60 or even lvl 50 (MCH pets are at lvl 70). Give DEs the ability to use their combat doids. This puts our skill requirements higher than CH (can't remember the numbers, see gnome's link above) to account for the fact that we can make AND use our droids.
As with CHs, Novice DEs will have immediat access to pets that are a bit higher than lvl 10. Master DEs WILL BE ABLE TO SELL TO THESE DE DABBLERS! If the major combat droids/modulesblueprints/schematics are up highin the DE Skill trees and in the MDE box, pure crafters will be able to sell to the dabblers. Bug fixes are on their way so we can only assume that non-combat droid sales will be up. Droid repair kits (and wound/stim packs) made by MDEs for probots and Novice DEs just means more sales.
This proposal satisfies the devs skill point/balance concerns: grinding to Master Artisanand Novice DE is not easy, but will give dabblers an immediate benefit. Higher lvl pet pointswould be spread out like they are in CH to prevent abusive one-tree dabbling and MDEs would get the best droids out there.
Crafter oriented MDEs like me, would be able to keep their skillpoints in merchant and have droids to protect them, but as with CH their pets would not make enough difference in PvP. MDEs would still need to INVEST in combat abilities. With creatures aggroing on the pet master thanks to smarter creature AI non-combatant DEs are not very effective and so are not uber and unbalancing. DEs with extra combat skills can pound their enemies with droids and pistoleer skills or whatever.
CH would remain an attractive profession due to the higher skillcap. DEs could use their droids. The Devs skill point/balance concerns are addressed. And crafter DEs like me are free tocraft away and feel safe on harvestor runs.
Look at your fuzzy logic then look at how it creates an argument for other crafters. Hell slicers slice weapons they cant even use. I worked hard for my pets (this isnt whining its a fact) as a CH. And this argument is silly, John Q Public can build cars in detroit all he wants (yeah even puts computerized chips in them too) but he isnt doing stunts like evil knevil and he wont win the winston cup this year. Youre right tho he may get raging made and drive his car over someone. But anyone can do that. The DH profession is a series of specializations. And if you continue to say that since we can build them we should get them for free, then my argument flows in reverse: i can use a CL10 i should be able to build one.