Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid Commanders?
Atan
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:41 am
#14
Just as an Idea:
What about giving the CH the cert. for higher combat droids?
Then the CH could maybe use the droids (energy damage) and the creatures (kinetic damage) together.
Ok, the BE's might cause an uproar as we would cut into their market....
MfG
Atan
(No, i am not a CH ^^)
Drunus
Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:10 am
#15
Well, at least this would be a closer image to scenes from The Phantom Meance or other Star Wars canon. I always liked the combat capable droids of 'Knights of the Old Republic' myself, and would rather see a player flanked by two droids running through town than a player flanked by two rancors... that still bugs me to this day, and I was at one point a CH.
Hillslayer wrote:
I just hope it's a long bloody time away. I'll still never go for more then a mini-skill tree. And regardless of what you said drashk it will still be CH/BE. So they buy the droids from us... so what? How big a difference is that really in the long run? We'll just see people spamming "a" at thier droids just like they do with thier pets. That is too close.
starcraftWS
Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:20 am
#16
In a loosely related note, I saw a player last night wearing a "Droid Commander" tag.
Haven't verified it myself, but I'm guessing it's a new tag associated with the 4th tier Droid/Astromech skill in the Pilot professions.
rushy68
Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:09 am
#17
i say we push for it under two conditions,
1.) it's not the only thing we push for... i want droids to NOT be turned into creatures... i want to see them used for EVERYTHING and be NEEDED in just about every players life. thats what the movies and most of the books stimulated, we need to push for this into the player interface... they need to be essencial to crafters, combatants, entertainers, miners, medics, smugglers... etc etc, where atm, all they are, are funny looking buff bots or moving crafting mechines.
2.) i would be VERY disapointed if this turns out to be a BE/CH clone... we can do better then that 
lets push higher then whats already there.
lets push higher then whats already there.i also agree that we need to do this SOON, because we still need to work decay out AFTER all of this, because if we do decay first, then it will make them less desirable, and as it is, no1 will wanna buy a droid that many times.. not really useful enough, so lets have it so they practically need to buy the droids 
it's time we grabbed the economy... lets do it everywhere.. and not restrict our droids to combat... thats what droids have over creatures.. they r multi-use, they don't just do tricks and kill things.. idealy they can do ANYTHING... for ANYBODY... lets use that
Jeryld
Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:00 am
#18
Well, this will probably be my last post to the forums, as my subscription runs out today and I have decided to give EQII a go instead. I've always been much more of a lurker than a poster anyway, and I'll probably still read these forums from time to time - of all the SWG forums, I've always enjoyed reading the DE board most, as it seems to have a higher proportion of constuctive / thought provoking posts than the others.
Anyway, I just wanted to add my 2p to the Droid Commander debate - I can understand why some DE's want it, but I still feel that the introduction of DC's would be A Bad Thing(TM) - it would have a detrimental effect on DE's in the long run, for reasons I've gone into before. I also feel that utility should be the main focus of droids rather than combat.
However, like I said, I can see why people want it - so maybe there is another way of introducing Droideka etc into the game - how about scrapping the idea of the DC profession, and introducing high end droids as craftable perks for faction points? Imps already can get a AT-ST, which has been implemented like a big old robot - why not change the AT-ST (which always seemed a bit unfair that only Imps could get) for a high end droid, and haveit so that instead of actually buying this droid with faction points, you buy a cert to use one instead - and then have to purchase one off of a DE? You could add a whole range of droids in this way, costing varying faction points - and we wouldn't have to faff around with a new profession.
Just a thought...have fun all, and good luck with the crafting
Message Edited by Jeryld on 11-11-2004 10:01 AM
rushy68
Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:24 pm
#19
Well, this will probably be my last post to the forums, as my subscription runs out today and I have decided to give EQII a go instead. I've always been much more of a lurker than a poster anyway, and I'll probably still read these forums from time to time - of all the SWG forums, I've always enjoyed reading the DE board most, as it seems to have a higher proportion of constuctive / thought provoking posts than the others.
i'll miss ya bro have fun with EQII
Sodan-droiddreamer
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:37 pm
#20
Drashk wrote:
The Certification system has been brought up many different times, not only by myself, but by countless others.
The problem comes down to giving too many people access to stronger combat ability without the major costs associated with skill point use. Seeding in extra abilities in current professions has a major imbalancing effect that the DEVs are trying to step away from. The Combat Upgrade is geared towards changing the face of combat, so that we don't have the outrageous situation that we see currently.
Higher end combat droids have to have a cost associated with them, since they do not fit into the scope of how combat is geared to work. Creature Handler gates the use of pets. Droid Commander will do the same.
Don't fall under the misconception that the Droid Commander / Droid Engineer relationship will be a cut and paste copy of Creature Handler / Bio Engineer. There may be items that will be in common, but they will not be exactly the same.
One of the biggest differences should be the way that Droid Commanders aquire Droids. Droids will not be tamed. The Droid Commander profession will more then likely gain 100% of its droids froma Droid Engineer, with maybe the exception of a starting combat droid. If anything, the Droid Commander / Droid Engineer relationship will better emulate the Weaponsmith / Combat profession relationship.
Another major difference is that Droid Commanders will not take over the ability to set the current commands on a droid. I do however see the Droid Commander gaining the ability to program new features on a droid, such as changing weapon damage types, and maybe even different tatical approaches.
Without the addition of the Droid Commander profession, the harsh reality is that higher end Combat Droids will never become a reality, without the creation of some major system changes. With the Droid Commander profession, the value of the Droid Engineer profession would increase tremendously, since a completely new market would be created. A real Combat Droid market.
I was previously opposed to this idea in a big way. Now I support it whole-heartedly because i think it is the ONLY way the devs will introduce awesome combat droids into the game. Can't wait to have my droideka following me around! Devs: we're talking major player satisfaction here.
I also agree that it does not have to bea perfect BE/CH clone. Look at what they have done with JTL. They wanted the game to be mostly "twitchy" -- based on joystick use -- but this an RPG. So they came up with skills to go along with the core of twitchy space combat. There are lots of great ways to fill up a droid commander skill tree.
Bottom line: No Droid Commander, no combat droids. It pains me to say it, but its true andI have spent many hours of my life only to discover it. (I shoulda been playing instead!)
Hillslayer
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:57 pm
#21
Then no heavy combat droids. It will be a clone there isn't enough you can do with it. Anyways, truely heavy combat droids at this time were either outlawed or in a shady area of the law. I hate seeing rancors and stuff walking about but I also hate the thought of both rancors AND droiekkas opening fire to someone spamming "a". No, I do _not_ want to see it go this direction. If there is a DC profession then let us get it's benefits as well for maybe 1/2 to 1/4 the skill points. We make the droids, WE KNOW THEM BEST.
psikobunny
Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:26 am
#22
starcraftWS wrote:
In a loosely related note, I saw a player last night wearing a "Droid Commander" tag.
Haven't verified it myself, but I'm guessing it's a new tag associated with the 4th tier Droid/Astromech skill in the Pilot professions.
Tier4 Rebel Droid Tree. I have been aching to get the box, even ahead of my Awing certification
Since we will have DCs ingame now, we don't have to worry about this any more right Drashk? 
Nindidar
Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:36 pm
#23
Hey hey...
in responce to not wanting to see everyone running around spamming "a" I couldn't agree more. However, I see no reason why we couldn'thave a droid command channel in addition to a creature command channel.same as other channels but instead of droids and creatures only listening to spacial they would instead listen only to their respective channels....
Hmm... this would however dectract from the RP value of pets/droids ok.... somake default commads available in the spatial channel andmake reasigned commands only accessable through special channels.
Nell2ThaIzzay
Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:17 pm
#24
TheRealTK421 wrote:
If we let it die, we will likely never see any kind of higher-end droid combat products.
That is not a bad thing at all. And I will go in depth, one more time, as to why this is a bad thing.
1. Just for role playing purposes, the combat droids we would get (droidekas, roger rogers, etc...) are nota part of this timeline. They were droids from the Trade Federation that was defeated.
2. The introduction of Droid Commander (or Handler, whatever it will be called) *WILL* be a clone of the Bio-Engineer / Creature Handler combonation. I don't care what kind of twist you put on it. Droid Commander is going to be a Creature Handler with tech skins instead. We already have it in the game, we do not need it again.
3. The introduction of Droid Commander completely changes the focus of what a Droid Engineer is. If Droid Commander is implemented, say goodbye to bug fixes for the utility modules and chasis. You will never see a purpose for the BLL. We'll never get cool inherent functions for the LE Repair Droid, the Surgical Droid, or any others. Why will this happen? Because if Droid Commander becomes implemented, there will be an entire profession that relies on Droid Engineers for a specific product. Absolutley relies. Not "it'd be good if we had it" (like our utility droids are), but "I can't advance without it". Any and all dev attention is going to go into fixing the combat droids (either nerfs or enhancements) to make sure that the profession that relies on us, can rely on us. Since the utility droids aren't relied upon, they will not get any attention to be fixed. Or to have more utility droids added.
4. The implementation of a new profession is bound to have bugs and glitches. It is inevitable. Why do we want this again?
5. Where are the skill points going to come from for this profession? I don't know that many people will be willing to give up the professions they've worked long and hard on, just so they can handle a combat droid. Some might. Most won't.
6. Just because it opens a market up to us, doesn't mean it is *our* market. That's like saying "Well we should be able to make droids that will buff us, just like a Doctor can, because it will open up a market to us". No. That's not our market. The combat crafting comes from the Weaponsmiths and the Armorsmiths. It is their market. The combat pets market comes from the Bio-Engineers. The Droid Commander profession wouldn't cut in on Weaponsmiths' or Armorsmiths' business, but it could cut in on the Bio-Engineers. In regards to 5, I don't think a lot of people are going to drop their professions to get the skill points back to take Droid Commander, but if they do, it'd probably be because Droid Commander is the combat profession that gives you a large boost in combat. So they will go there, and you probably won't see many Creature Handlers around anymore, cutting into the Bio-Engineers market. Now the response to this has been "People might rather have droids over Rancors, no matter the power", and for some, that is true. But most who play this game aren't always the people we see on this boards. Many are the uber l33t players who are looking for the biggest advantage. We've had these problems before when Creature Handler was completely broken. Do we really want to go through this again with the Droid Commander profession? I mean, seriously, they still haven't figured out the Creature Handler profession and gotten that working right. Why do you think the Droid Commander profession will just magically work?
7. I've said it before... I admit it... I took Droid Engineer for the possibility of combat droids. Being a Creature Handler, and a Droid Engineer, I had visions of commanding an army of pets, and I'd have some combat skills with what was left to support my pets. Well, before I could even make the combat droids, I saw what utility we had, and realized the potential of what utility droids could do. And that is why I am still a Droid Engineer today... because of the utility market we have. I am happy with only DZ70 and Probot combat droids (I don't make combat Astromechs or LE's). I want the focus of this profession to be on utility, and we have made great advances in that, with the new modules we have gotten. The arguement on this board is that the utility droids aren't needed. Well, they aren't *NEEDED*, as in required, but they are useful enough that they are *wanted*, and that is the important thing. I get many a tells from people wanting a droid of this kind, or that. We are wanted, we do have a market. I want this profession to continue in the advances for utility purposes, and I do not want this profession's focus to be changed to combat. I am not a Droid Engineer to be a weapon maker. I don't want to be a fancy Weaponsmith, I don't want to be a tech Bio-Engineer. Getting combat droids (which would mean Droid Commander is in) would change our focus to a combat crafting profession, and I don't want that. I don't want my market to be on all these dumb combat droids (droidekas are cool, but the roger rogers are actually pretty boring), making my profession, in essence, just like everything else. I enjoy my template, because it's different. It's not what everyone else is doing. And I enjoy Droid Engineer, because it's different. If we get combat droids, we won't be different, or unique. We'll be yet another combat crafting class, that makes yet even more weapons, and the yet another combat profession will be the focus of everything we make, and the items that make us unique will get put on the back burner, indefinatley.
Droid Commander and more combat droids are bad for this profession, and I'm actually kinda disappointed that we've come to this, the NEED that we HAVE to make combat droids. I hope these combat droids never see the light of day, and I hope that Droid Commander can just be forgotten about. All this talk about Droid Commander again recently has me nervous that it's seriously being considered, and could some day be implemented. This is the last thing I want to see from this profession, and I'll be very disappointed if it ever is implemented.
Sodan-droiddreamer
Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:02 pm
#25
Why don't people use "/tellpet a" and macro it? That's a non-issue.
Nindidar wrote:
Hey hey...
in responce to not wanting to see everyone running around spamming "a" I couldn't agree more.
Drashk
Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:06 pm
#26
I've been thinking about this subject a lot lately, that was spawned by the recent changes made with the Squad Leader commands. Why not make /tellpet required use to issue a command to a pet or Droid? Its a question that I am about to bring up the CH forum. Wish me luck.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Why don't people use "/tellpet a" and macro it? That's a non-issue.
Nindidar wrote:
Hey hey...
in responce to not wanting to see everyone running around spamming "a" I couldn't agree more.