Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Project: Droid Engineer Droid Model Redesign
Straker_Atrella
Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:21 pm
#14
Drashk, you are hot today. I would sign for this one as well.
Ok thoughts to add in, you knew they were coming.
Why more resources needed? Still not clear on the reason for that.I don't see a need.
Ok, while I find 6 modules in an MSE a little disturbing, if you want to follow that train of though, then the BLL should have like 8. Let's just stick with "size doesn't matter." 
Ok now at capping certain chassis abilities so you don't have an MSE Stimpack Droids that performs as well as a say an R3 Stimpack Droid. Who cares? Seriously, this isn't a balance issue, because you would need to be an MDE to put the 6 modules in the MSE anyway.
Outside of that, this would do nothing more then make customers happy. If they want a Harvest MSE, then let them have one. If they want a full Stimpack treadwell, make it so. Give customers a full wide range of options, there is no "balance" reason not too.
Now to make this thought less offensive, you could let any Droid have 6 modules, yet still let certain Droids have "Roles" sorta. First, as was already said, adjust integrity on certain Chasis based upon what their role should be. For example, the integrity on a Surgical, Protocol, or MSE, should be lower then a Power, R3 or BLL. Next you could adjust HAMs the same way. Sure you could have an MSE Stimpack Droid that heals just as good as an R3, but it wont have nearly the surviveability.
Lastly, you could have Chasis bonuses. For example, Combat Droid damage would need to be redone, because a 6 module Probot with the current Probot bonus would be a big jump up in damage. So if the Probot "should" be a better killer then the DZ70, then just give it a better bonus. If you want Surgical droids to be the best med droids, give them a +5 bonus to med rating. Nothing major, just a little love.
HAM and Integrity would be a big step towards keeping droids in their "place." Yet for Utility functions, who really cares if an MSE has 6 modules, just give the customer what they want.
This would really really promote special orders. Good lord keeping a vendor stocked with all of the possible combos is a scary site.
Mitargan
Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:35 pm
#15
I don't think an increase in required resources would be a problem for most DE's. The resources required to make individual droids is insignificant campared to individual items of some of the other crafting professions.
However, one problem I see with DE and the crafting process (aside from actual functionality of the individual droids) is that we do not have the ability to any great extent to incorporate looted items into the droids in order to make uber units. I like your idea of changing the chassis's use and the crafting method to make the droids but it still seems to be missing something that would make the droids unique enough for other players to actually want them.
What if, during the crafting process, there was a slot (onlyavailable toMaster DE's) for an "unknown" resource that we could use to actually experiment with? Maybe this would allow us to develop droids with extra or extraordinary abilities that would make them unique. Of course, this should be something that you could not turn into a manufacturing schematic. By eliminating the ability to create a manufacturing schematic when using this "unknown" resource slot we could possibly create a wide variety of unique droids that people might actually want.
Poo Jaci
Master Droid Engineer
Master Pikeman
Vendor: -3491 1555
Kor Vella, Corellia
Eclipse
BillyBobthe50th
Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:38 pm
#16
if this idea is done, we need to have ALL the droid ham's tweaked.
Mitargan
Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:48 pm
#17
Absolutely. If we are experimenting then it should be possible to affect everthing. Maybe using a certain type of crystal resource would affect HAM while using an organic resource might give the droid clothes!
Poo Jaci
Master Droid Engineer
Master Pikeman
Vendor: -3491 1555
Kor Vella, Corellia
Eclipse
Master Droid Engineer
Master Pikeman
Vendor: -3491 1555
Kor Vella, Corellia
Eclipse
Nell2ThaIzzay
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:05 pm
#18
I don't really like the idea, because as stated earlier, it would limit our market to MSE's instead of R3's. Everyone would want the MSE's because they do the same exact thing as an R3, but are tons cheaper.
I actually don't have any problems with the current system. I'm not even a master, and can't even make R3's yet, not even the basic ones, and I haven't really faced too many lost sales because of it. Sure, there is the occasional "Send me a tell when you can make me a droid with all of the entertainer FX modules", but those are actually few and far between, and I make up for it with plenty of sales of people who are willing to buy what I can make them.
So myself, personally, I have no problems with the current market. My only problem with business comes from an issue that isn't part of Droid Engineering, and is rather an issue with my chosen template, than it is with game mechanics.
I wouldn't be against certain inherent functions, however. The Power Droid should power (I'd be for it helping out with harvestors in a pinch, as well), the LE Repair Droid should inherently be able to repair things such as houses, and vehicles, as well as other droids (houses and vehicles to a noticeably lesser extent than what would come from paying maintenance or going to a garage, meaning that it isn't an escape from paying the maintenance, but rather something to help you out in a pinch), and I think the Surgical Droid should inherently be able to deploy stimpacks (but again, to a lesser extent than having a real medic or doctor with you). Those are the droid changes I'd like to see. As well as certain bonuses droids could get with certain mods. I.E., an MSE Mouse Droid that would allow you to hold some mission waypoints with a data module installed (MSE, being the only droid that can do it), and in order to have the waypoint, you have to have the MSE droid out. This would allow people to take multiple missions at once (possibly the mod can hold 2 extra waypoints), but since you have to have it out, you can't have a combat droid out. So you can take extra missions, but part of your offensive would be gone.
Just some off the top ideas. I don't think I want to current module system to be changed tho.
Straker_Atrella
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:14 pm
#19
Double post, sorry.
Message Edited by Straker_Atrella on 11-29-2004 08:15 PM
Nell2ThaIzzay
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:22 pm
#20
But what people will want is the most effective droid for the lowest cost. If MSE's can hold 6 modules, just as any other droids, that's what it would be.
Seriously, other than for "beauty", what kind of sense does it make to buy an R3 over an MSE, when they both do the same exact thing, but one with less the cost.
It's like those shampoo commercials, where they show the girls with the great hair, and talk about how one paid hundreds of dollars at a fancy salon, and the other used Head & Shoulders. Same results, less cost.
I like the way droids are, that as you go higher and higher, the droids can do more and more things. I don't suffer a loss of sales because people are like "Sorry, I want the R3"... people ask me what I can build, I tell them, and they make their decision. 99% of the time, if I can craft it, they say "go for it". There's been like, 1 or 2 times only when someone has told me "Wait till you can make a droid with all the modules, then get back to me".
AudioOrgana
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:29 pm
#21
Drashk wrote:The biggest con of such a design change would be an overall increase in resource requirements. In order to make such a system work, each Socket Level would need to have a greater resource cost, to compensate for the increase in overall functionality.
I don't really see that as a con, unless it requires more subcomponents. Resources are not an issue for us generally, we require very little metal in terms of quantity. As long as it's larger quantities of what we already provide I don't see this as a problem - I likely wouldn't even change my prices, though the DE's who price by CPU would certainly have to. In fact, this would likely be good for the economy.
However, I don't want to see it all in chemical as in the outlined suggestion. This could be a *very* bad thing if coupled with decay, as such huge amounts of chemical per droid would make us a profession even more wholly dependent on quality chem spawns than we already are. If both this and decay went in exactly, we'd have what would be in my opinion too high a reliance because both the quality of the HAM and the quality of the integrity would be in chemical, as chemical far outweighs metal in sheer quantity in the proposed schematic changes. This would gate us with chemical in a way that I don't think would be very favorable to anyone - new or old.
I'd like to see the metal costs increased across the board - again, not more types, just a bit more of the same. Chassis and final assemble could benefit from mirroring the current chemical requirements (most of chassis, all of final) and adding metal requirements to the final and increasing it on the chassis. For instance, once Ditanium spawned for the first time on all servers, Protocol's became a dime a dozen. Having Ditanium as a requirement is really pointless because it's such an inconsequential amount - although I've had stacks of ditanium just as generic steel, I'm still using the same stack to make protocol droids that I mined when it first appeared on my server over a year ago. I think BLL's should be the model in terms of chassis requirements regardless of these changes.
That said, I think we do need to examine the need for this idea in terms of function - is this *really* the way we want to go? The idea itself is well thought-out, and the initial cons don't seem terribly bad and in fact may be good. I thought for a very long time we were fighting for MORE differentiation between chassis, not to eliminate it all together. Functionally, it makes sense - but we need to decide if we want to make this change to our core philosophy. Many of us always hoped that the BLL would be able to acually lift loads, for one. While I like the idea, I like the idea of making chassis do something on their own (Protocol, BLL, WED, etc.) that fits their theme as well as function, better as a priority.
AO
Straker_Atrella
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:32 pm
#22
I totally disagree, nothing personal, but you are way way over valuing the value of 5k, or even 15k.
5k is a Starport or Shuttle Ticket. 10k is a round trip ticket. People pay 6k to fix a speeder without even thinking about it.
In a world of 300k Armor and Million Credit weapons, I have 100% faith that most people will pay 5k or 10k more for a Droid that they like the look of.
Sums below 20k are pocket change to most of the SWG population.
The fact that I sell just as many 80k BLL med droids as I do 40k Med Droids with the exact same functions hints that even 40k doesn't matter to many people.
Besides that MSE's are hard to click at your feet, don't have as cool color options, and make that annoying beep sound. All more reasons people will buy a different Droid.
Nell2ThaIzzay
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:38 pm
#23
Under the proposed system, and my price guide, here's how my sales would go, assuming I am a Master Droid Engineer. Let's use the example that they want a 110 med droid and all crafting stations.
Customer: "Hi"
Marr'Taan: "Hello"
Customer: "Can you make a medical droid with a 110 rating and all of the crafting stations?"
Marr'Taan: "Yes, as a matter of fact, I can. Let me go ahead and whip one up for you."
Customer: "How much does it cost?"
Marr'Taan: "Depends on the droid that you want. I can make you an R3 droid fully equipped for 49500, or an MSE with the same exact functionality and quality for 33500."
Customer: "I'll take the MSE"
That's a difference of 16000 credits, under my pricing guide, between an R3 droid, or an MSE. Both do the exact same things, but one costs 16k less. To some people, that might not be a lot of money, but to others, and probably the majority, why pay that 16k when you can get the same results without paying it? And then me, who's scrounging for every bit I can get, just lost 16k because someone had the choice to get the same droid in an MSE module.
Seriously, I like the system we have now. That's like saying my Kia Rio should be able to have the same horsepower as a Mustang, because people who want faster cars have to buy Mustangs.
I've noticed in the couple months I've been back in the game, and back on these forums, that I really am the black sheep of all of my professions.
Nell2ThaIzzay
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:43 pm
#24
I'm also not cool with increased amounts of resources required. I am really struggling enough as it is. I have harvestors going, and I still don't have enough resources. I have to end up buying resources, and I don't sell droids because I can't advertise my vendor, so really, I lose money as a droid engineer. How I've managed to support it this far, I really don't know.
I don't know how the rest of you have enough resources, and all the best resources to boot. I can barely afford a 1k stack of steel. I don't need even more requirements making me go through that 1k stack any faster than I already am.
Maybe it's because most crafters I know are completely devoted to it, whereas I am spread out over a couple things (crafting and combat), but I have a hard enough time supporting myself as it is. I don't need any more resource or component requirements.
Straker_Atrella
Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:53 pm
#25
Nell2ThaIzzay wrote:
Under the proposed system, and my price guide, here's how my sales would go, assuming I am a Master Droid Engineer. Let's use the example that they want a 110 med droid and all crafting stations.
Customer: "Hi"
Marr'Taan: "Hello"
Customer: "Can you make a medical droid with a 110 rating and all of the crafting stations?"
Marr'Taan: "Yes, as a matter of fact, I can. Let me go ahead and whip one up for you."
Customer: "How much does it cost?"
Marr'Taan: "Depends on the droid that you want. I can make you an R3 droid fully equipped for 49500, or an MSE with the same exact functionality and quality for 33500."
Customer: "I'll take the MSE"
That's a difference of 16000 credits, under my pricing guide, between an R3 droid, or an MSE. Both do the exact same things, but one costs 16k less. To some people, that might not be a lot of money, but to others, and probably the majority, why pay that 16k when you can get the same results without paying it? And then me, who's scrounging for every bit I can get, just lost 16k because someone had the choice to get the same droid in an MSE module.
Seriously, I like the system we have now. That's like saying my Kia Rio should be able to have the same horsepower as a Mustang, because people who want faster cars have to buy Mustangs.
I've noticed in the couple months I've been back in the game, and back on these forums, that I really am the black sheep of all of my professions.
No offense, but then maybe you would need to adjust your pricing guide. You would be the one pushing people towards the MSE, not the system.
I charge 10k for an MSE chasis, and 15k for an R3.
The same conversation for me would be....
Customer: Hi
Me: Heya, what's up.
Customer: How much would a Med Droid, with all the crafting stations and storage run?
Me: Well that depends, about half would be 70k, the other half would be 75k, but the Power Droid and BLL would cost you 100k.
Customer: Hmmmmm how much for a cheap MSE?
Me: That would be 70k.
Customer: How about a Probot or R3?
Me: 75k for each.
Customer: I like the look of the Probot, I'll get that.
Now possibly, he may have wanted a Treadwell, Protocol, or MSE for 5k cheaper, but so what?
The fact that you value an R2 at 16k more then an MSE for just the chasis alone is the problem. In my opinion, you are either pricing the MSE to low, or the R2 to high. That is to much of a difference.
Price setting is difficult, but I think you have to much of a spread.
BillyBobthe50th
Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:41 pm
#26
its THAT EASY for you? my shop is a few meters from yours, (most of my customers who want non-jtl stuff is WOOK) and I get a lot of "what do droids do?"s and "I cant afford 70k"s.