Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: How much fixing do we really need?
TeileIceblade wrote:
Yup empire strikes back, Han solo destroys one thats surveying for the rebel base. And took it out with one blaster shot. But i agree wee need something a little better for a combat droid, and i think it would be a good idea to go back to the pre nerfed stat for probots till they put something better in.
Actually Han reports in that he did not hit the probot that hard that is probably had a self-distruct. Then he says that it is a good chance that the empire knows that they [rebels] are on hoth.
As a result this particular scene in the movie is not a good basis for determining the tactical abilities of probots, particularly since we do not know the armor level of that probot.
If someone can provide some more accurate or reliable tactical information on the probot from the fiction that would be interesting to see how it compares to the current probot in SWG.
As an aside I believe I did read one of the devs mention that there will be a large increase in the amount of combat droids available. As a Non-DE (although I may make my alt a DE) that is very exciting.
I like the certification idea, however, i think modules should be left alone and instead each droid given a unique ability no other droid can do. For example
Protocol droid- walking FAQ
BLL- can collect resources from harvesters and come back to you
MSEs- can go around cleaning your house (reducing maintenance cost)
R2,R3, etc.- a "general" droid that can do anything, however not as well as the other droids
LE repair- repair droids
Surgical droids- heal people
Power droids - Can power droids and structures
Now, so that people can have several service droids out at a time, droids should be able to be "assigned" to buildings and perform the tasks you want them to.
Wow, I sure am glad I read this post. Jinx, you did agreat job in explaining the good sides of DEs right now. I was really upset with the current DE situation, but then you reminded me of something... We aren't here for helping people fight, we are here to help people in their everyday tasks. I was thinking of droids with the wrong mind set, and I thank you for taking a lot of miss-lead anger out of me.
BUT! The only thing that still makes me a little upset is the fact that all the benefits you mentioned only apply to Master Droid Engineers right now. If it's not the best, it isn't really worth much... Unless you are making Advanced Probots, or really good quality crafting stations, you're droids aren't very useful in the eye of the customers.
I think the main problem with droids really is just the lack of creativity. There isn't much of a difference between Item Storage Module 1 and 6. It would be really nice to have low-end, non-combat droids that are a lot more useful to customers. Instead of having the same droids with slightly better moudules, why not give them DIFFERENT Modules? There's a lot of ideas that are out there, but they are being ignored, or not considered.
I don't mind having weak combat droids, not at all, as long as our practical droids are actually useful.
Thanks for the hostility, folks 
(except for the first guy who responded) I'm glad to see my estimate put in the beginning of my post was correct: it was, indeed, unpopular, so I'm not out of touch with reality. I do wish that people had been friendlier in their responses rather than just getting combative and rude, but I guess that would be expecting too much.
Anyway, just to make a blanket response to everything:
1) Droid Engineers were not designed to make combat pets. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. That is not just an opinion, it is a fact - it is based on the fact that there is not one single droid in our entire tree that is described as a strong combatant. Saying that we don't have a strong combat pet is a flaw is just wrong: there was no promise of one, and the one we did have was an error.
2) Yes, as so many people pointed out, I did acknowledge that there are bugs. However, I wasn't suggesting that they not be fixed. I was saying that once they are fixed, and even in spite of them not yet being fixed, we're a really cool profession, and will be even better.
I'm going to retire from this thread - the combative nature of the responses indicated to me that the respondents are interested in being hostile, rather than in an actual discussion. Not a surprise, but still somewhat disappointing.
Darn a lack of an edit button and my slow typing:
Thanks, also, to the later people who responded as I was slooooowly composing that last - very thoughtful, and I agree with much of it. I'm still going to withdraw from this, as it just feels like trying to have a friendly debate without the angry kids jumping in and misreading everything is impossible. (And, to take responsibility - I'm *really* bad at just ignoring really misguided stuff, though I know I should. =D)
For the guy who mentioned Jar Jar being an agent of The Force:
I have often thought that C3P0 and R2-D2 were actually evil, sadistic creatures hell-bent on making their organic "masters" suffer for treating them so badly. How else can you explain 3P0 not just saying, "Oh, hi, Master Luke - you know, your dad built me, and he's Darth Vader now." (Memory wipe, I know, I know, but I like my theory better.)
Okay, here goes with what will likely be an incredibly unpopular post, but...
How much fixing do we really need? Aside from the obvious bugs (customization, multiple crafting stations[which is a game bug, not a DE bug], droid repair kits, only 1 droid out at a time, experimentation and materials quality being basically useless), what is really broken?
Not much. Here's why:
1) We make portable private crafting stations that don't suck. I cannot tell you how many droids like that I've sold to people who want to be able to experiment while out sampling in the field.
2) We make portable medical centers that can be *better* than being in an actual med center.
3) We make portable item storage. Granted, it is only 10 units, and there should be levels and levels (based on the main droid chassis, I think - 1 for an MSE, 10 for an R2, 100 for a BLL) but it is there.
4) We make *ok* combat droids. A 40% medium armor probot *doesn't* suck as a damage sponge. It may not be an AT-ST or a stormtrooper, but it wasn't supposed to be. It is a helper, NOT a replacement for a player in a fight. (And a 40% medium advanced probot with 110 medical capability is an AWESOME help in a fight - a nice 10% bonus to heals, seems like)
5) Future changes to droids will add other things, I'm sure. I would LOVE to see the data modules (worthless) exchanged for something that would let entertainers heal BF outside of a cantina. Call it a radio or something, and make it work like a medical module does. I could also easily see "delivery droids" that work like a BH's seeker - not really a droid, but you put whatever item in it, and, depending on the distance and model, it will deliver the item in a certain timeframe. Harvester maintaining droids would rock - as would power droids that could be hooked into structures to provide juice.
Anyway, droids are great right now - IF you don't want them to be things they shouldn't be. That would be like complaining that Vibro Knuckles suck because they don't hit things 60 meters out - they aren't supposed to.
Droids are for utility, not combat. As a utility pet, they are unbeatable right now. Simply put, they are not supposed to be better than everything else out there for combat - or even all that good. They weren't super hot combatants in the movies (for god's sake, JAR JAR was blowing up combat droids on accident!) and they shouldn't be all that good in this game. I do think there ought to be droidekas that are makeable, but they honestly ought to be hideously difficult to make - on a par with a PA hall, in my opinion, so that they aren't *everywhere* inside of a week, and they should require maintenance - lots of maintenance, also like a PA hall. And repairs. Frequent repairs. And the owner should have to get the shield generators and weapons replaced from time to time. And even with all that hassle, they'd *still* be useful - better than an AT-ST, as they wouldn't perma-die, wouldn't require overt status to use, and wouldn't be limited only to one side of the PvP equation.
Also, people here keep comparing us to CHs. There *is* no real comparison - entirely different class. I mean, what do they really have to do with us, other than that they have pets and we have "pets"? It is like comparing tailors to armorsmiths - they both make things people wear, but... Anyway, I'll put this in just to address that.
Healing: They have the edge on us - they can use stims and vit packs on their pets, we cannot. This is a bug, though, and should be fixed.
Combat: They have the edge on us - though only if they are using the pets themselves (and that is as it should be). Non-CH pets are still pretty tough, but the patch really took out a TON of abuse. I'll put my 40% medium resist everythingarmor 820 HAM 50-60 damage probot up against someone else's 25% light armor resist just a few things 2200 Ham 120-140 damagerock-beetle or their no-armor, similar HAM and damageKamurrah. My droid may not beat them every time, but it won't do too poorly. Once "on the fly"repair is implemented for droids, I would *definitely* take that bet.
Utility:CH's have... nothing. Nothing at all. We have all of it, even if some of it is of limited utility. On top of that, the future may hold things like delivery droids, or harvester maintaining droids, or any number of other things. Who knows? Are CH's going to get crafting station pets? I could see a pack-mule kind of thing, but not a medical enhancer or a harvester maintainer etc.
Saleability: We win there, no questions asked. I see rock-beetles going for 5-10k a pop to non-ch's. I sell 40% medium probots for 25k a pop. I also sell crafting droids, medical droids, storage droids, etc etc etc. On top of that, I can hold a back-pack full of droids and then some for selling. CH's can hold 2 at novice level, and less than 10 when they hit master, I think? Convenience is huge there. Also, don't forget that BH's require our stuff. No one "requires" a pet. Their sales don't require resources, this is true, but it definitely takes them time - usually more time than it takes me to make my most advanced droid, that's for sure.
Customization: Theyaren't able to customize pets and I've heard of nothing in the works for that (though a groomer function would be cool- ID offshoot? Practice on the bothans! ) and we, once the bugs are fixed, will. Also, to re-train a non CH pet (customizing its orders), you have to talk to a CH. To re-train a droid, you can do it yourself. I hate having to hunt someone down to change a command - and I have to trust them not to rip me off in the process.
Anyway, comparing DE to CH or to anything is pointless - we are a different kind of profession. The *closest* comparison I can think of is to an Architect, in that they make useful non-combat things and we make useful mostly non-combat things.
Simply put, DE doesn't suck right now, not by a long shot. Our combatants aren't overpowering, but they aren't supposed to. We aren't a combat class. Our utility devices are great, our combat support droids are OK, and our prospects for the future are bright. The only complaints I have are about the obvious bugs. Once those get fixed, though... we will be beyond fantastic.
The big sales right now are droids with medical modules and crafting stations. How many droids can you make with thesebefore everyone has one? Eventually these sales will drop.
You can make a mouse droid with as many modules as an R3, by stacking general module clusters. This needs to be changed.
Stacking data, item storage, or medical modules, need to be changed as well. Makes being a Master DE pointless.
Last, combat droids we have are useless. We need more combat type droids.
First, there needs to be a few combat droid Chassis that give certain boosts to certain types of fighting (melee, ranged, etc.) I was think like the IG-88 model and the model Vader uses to spar with not sure what the name is, it was in SW: ANH SE though, when they were going into Mos Eisly, it smacks a little hovering droid out of the air....anyway I'm all for more than just those two droids.
Next, would be the modules for these combat droids. There could be alot of different combinations of droids made, Because the way i'm thinking of these modules is that each module have certain strengths and weaknesses such as for melee as and example, one module could have a faster attack speed and lower damage, and another could have slower speed and slightly higher damage, and for the ranged weapons modules, you could get some that would be a little like a "sniping" droid with high range, or other variations of ranged weapon combat, but the combinations would almost be unlimited.
Again..sorry if this has been brought up before, and my humblest appologies to you flamers out there. I bow before you infinite wisdom
-Satell Akrodie (GCU), Droid Engineer/Swordsman/Musician
Starsider
When our class is released broken and we get little to nill feedback from the devs, how do you expect they are going to reply to someone who says that they are imagining things...
JinxKurai-------------...so I'm not out of touch with reality.----------------
Your posts indicate otherwise... Either that or your a novice droid engineer with little to no understanding of the proffession.
JinxKurai-------------1) Droid Engineers were not designed to make combat pets. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. That is not just an opinion, it is a fact - it is based on the fact that there is not one single droid in our entire tree that is described as a strong combatant. Saying that we don't have a strong combat pet is a flaw is just wrong: there was no promise of one, and the one we did have was an error.-----------------
Heh I was RIGHT! He is Holo's alternate account =P. Seriously unless you are an employee how do you determine this? The pre-nerf probot was a great combat droid. Heh, where do you get off telling us what droid engineers were designed for? The movies and books are littered with combat droids. Hell,the latest two had nothing BUT combat droids for one faction. Can you seriously say that Droid Engineers aren't supposed to be able to make great combat droids? Battle droids should be weak and I would suggest even the ability to have a couple of them like the current faction pets. Droidekas and some of the other more powerfull droids should be implemented.
Making excuses for them because they released the proffession before it was even half done only makes you look silly. Saying it wasn't their "vision" based on your own opinion also makes you look silly. I'm begining to think that not only did you run through the stupid forest but you also hit every tree in it several times...
I agree that certifications are pointless. That's a very bad idea. Anyone should be able to use any droid they pay the money for.
And no, Droid Engineering isn't a combat class, and we shouldn't have the most powerful combat pets. But we should have effective pets. The Probot at 800HAM is just very underpowered, and the DZ70 at 40HAM is completely unacceptable. We shouldn't have droids that overpower CH creatures, but we should have combat droids that are actually effective at combat. Nobody is asking for a combat droid that can solo any creature you throw at it, we are asking for something effective, something worthwhile.
I believe that any droid should be able to hold any module, but the higher level droids get higher bonuses for the modules installed, so installed a level 1 medical or item storage module on an R3 unit makes it better than a level 1 med or storage module on an MSE.
Also, the following droids need the following inherent abilities:
Surgical Droid: Can heal players automatically when equipped with stims, however not as effective as a medic (we don't want to make pointless an entire class.)
Repair Droid: Be able to repair weapons, armor, and other droids.
Power Droids: Be able to power droids and harvestors.
Protocol Droid: Mini-Vendor, able to hold about 5 or so items that anyone can use. Nothing tho that will make the Merchant class pointless.
Binary Load Lifter: Major major bonuses to item storage (maybe be the only droids that can carry houses and furniture and stuff also), and give them an ability like, be able to patrol to different harvestors, and automatically put it's contents into your inventory (Having a droid walk from harvestors, to wherever you may be, could be too intensive for the system of the game. Altho patrolling from harvestor to house maybe won't be.)
Other changes:
Data Droids need to be able to hold pets and missions. But -lower- the effectiveness of data modules so that the storage of the droid is equal to the calling level of pets... and the higher level data modules (along with higher level models of droids) can hold better pets. And make a CL50 limit for even the best pets, so you can only hold 1 extra big pet.
Droideka and Battle Droid additions to our combat list would be great.
Better customization so we can actually color our droids.
TeileIceblade wrote:
Dont take this the wrong way but the certs idea is pointless. Were a artisain class what the point of building combat droid if you have to have a cert to use them. Not everyones going to train just to use a droidwe make. There arent enough points to train all that much as it is.
You misunderstand what I said. As people progress in their chosen profession, they get certifications allowing them to use more things. In this casemedical modules, and in the future combatdroids.It is just like weapons are now... you train, and you get a certification for a new weapon. People don't train to progress and have to spend more points to then aquire the certification. It comes automatically as the player progresses.
Nell2ThaIzzay wrote:
I agree that certifications are pointless. That's a very bad idea. Anyone should be able to use any droid they pay the money for.
With this train of thought, then there shouldn't be certifications for weapons either.