Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: We are only a crafting class...
Jenden wrote:
Graeme wrote:I see your example of weaponsmith making powerful weapons that OTHER combat professions use. That is true, but those other combat professions have to earn the right to use those more powerful weapons. Right now the probot is equivilent to the CDEF weapons, in that anyone can use them. If the DEs start to make more powerful combat droids, then some system needs to be put in place where people have to EARN the right to use the more powerful fighters.. The question that needs to be answered is, Do you graft a certification on to existing fighters skill trees? Do you create a whole new class of droid handler? Or do you graft the certification system on to DE? Just letting DEs start making metal rancors that anyone can use is just not a good idea, without some kind of a certification system.
I think this is the part that many DE's just aren't seeing. They are blinded by the thought of power. I personaly agree that their does need to be a cert. system of some kind for them, but figuring it out is the trick. I don't like the idea of a new profession (droid handler just doesn't make any sense). I also don't like the idea of being put into the DE skill tree (as mentioned weaponsmiths and BE's don't get automatically certed for what they make, no reason we should either, and as I've stated many times, it would wreak havoc on the profession). I think probably the best choice would be to cert them to masters of elite combat professions (or, a rather random thought, master politicians.... they've always been the ones in the movies with the combat droids).
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
I couldn't disagree with you more. There is nothing in the continuity of star wars that indicates that you would have to learn anything to use a droid (other than basic skill that you might pick up along the way...like using a tv remote control). Luke didn't have any special training on how to use a protocol droid, that we know of. Why should we be any different? In EP1, the droid army didn't even have a master with them on naboo...they took orders from the goofy trade federation schmucks up in their space installation. Weapons are different. You _do_ require training to learn to use certain weapons, both in real life and Star Wars. Any body can use a blaster (i.e., a 22-caliber pistol), but you can't just pick up an M-16 and go to town. Also, just because Weaponsmiths aren't certed for their weapons doesn't mean that they shouldn't be and it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to use any droid that we make. Don't use the plight of some other profession to drag us down (or you'll sound like the Battle_Droid_General retard that was foaming at the mouth in here the other day).
That being said, I don't see why we couldn't have a system for combat droids like CH has where higher-level droids (>DL15?) would require some DE skills, and everybody can use DL15 or below. Obviously, all our existing 'combat' droids would be less than DL15. I would even say that probot is probably more like DL13. The devs could add new droids on both sides of the DE-only line. As someone else pointed out earlier, people who want to use DL16+ will learn some DE skills, just like people do now with CH. If not, then maybe the cert system can be distributed around to all the professions. Utility droids wouldn't have certs (or every profession will provide droid certs as players advance in their own profession..or something).
Also, as a side note, I'm sure everyone has noticed that with our current set of schematics you can't get better than medium armor with 40% effectiveness on any droid, regardless of how much stacking you do. This is just my own hypothesis --- not even a theory yet --- but I think that indicates that there has always been plans to add new droids that are stronger than the ones we started with. Maybe a probot is only supposed to be able to take so much armor...but maybe a droideka can be stacked with 3 level 6 armors and gets up to heavy armor with 95% effectiveness, or something of that nature. Also, we can't get more than 10 items in any droids right now, but maybe when we get new droids (or when BLL gets sockets added to it) they/it will be able to carry many more items (~100). After all, it is a BL-LIFTER. Anyway, these numbers are certainly debatable, but you get the idea. I'm just noting that these kind of properties indicate to me that bigger/stronger/faster droids are coming someday.
EricTheGreat wrote:
Our best combat droid that would be DE only wont be near the power of a master CH pet.
How could you possibly know that at this point?
The devs haven't even designed anything much less implemented any changes yet.
You're just being pesimistic? pesemistic? pisamystic? pesim... crap. whatever, you know what I mean.
Colbe
The point we were making was connected to the fact that many DEs don't want to turn the profession in to a combat class.IF the DEs aren't going to be the ones using new combat droids, then there need to be some kind of graduated certification for there use, just like there is for any other weapon. I know you don't need as much skill to turn on a droid as you do to wield along sword, but strictly from a game mechanic basis, you can't turn every newbie in the game lose with high level combat droids. They tried that with rancors, and it just didn't work.
Quote:
If DE combat droid usage is done similarly to CH combat pet usage, the net result will be people picking up a few DE skill boxes to use combat droids.
And BUYING droids.
Wishful thinking my friend. Look at the facts. The devs just totally nerfed CH dabbler's abilities to have strong pets by moving the creature level skills all over the profession (good creatures only available at the high end).
Do you really think Devs are going to give the combat droid skill to beginning DEs? They won't. The end result is that they will put the skill somethere around master, and anyone of that skill level will be able to make their own droids. You won't gain jack.
Support the droid handler skill, and you will lose. Fight it, and I will buy combat droids from you until the end of time. 
This would be my goal of a cert system. Everyone starts with cert for r units, protocol and combat droid A. I'll use vague terms for combat droids. novice medics get certed with the surgical droid. artisans get certed with the repair droid or bll, etc. At rifle, pistol,and carbine 4 the marksman gets thecombat droid B cert. Allnon combatclasses get this droid cert at master. Combat droid C is certed all elite combat proffesions and novice droid engineer. All elite non combat classes would gain this at master. The best combat droid, D, (how weird that is a D) comes at master elite combat classes and master droid engineer.
Let me know if this sounds reasonable to you. This way each class gets a droid that they can use for their purpose.
Aiyee wrote:
The point about agruing against the combat droids is to challenge the devs to not just
leave it there. Droids should be DIFFERENT from a creature pet and when they do finally
add/change these droids, we want them to give us distinquishing functionalities, rather than
just a metallic Rancor.
The problem is, when new combat droids do come out, they will/should onlybe used for combat, and the only difference any combat profession will look at besides asthetics, is the stats.
Whether we like it or not, the deciding factor if any combat creature or droid will sell or not comes down to numbers. Pure and simple. I think that's what the devs are aiming for, and anything else would be unbalancing.
As far as diferentiating between different droids, I don't think it's right to allow placing combat modules into any non-combat droid. And I don't think combat droids should be allowed to have any modules placed in them besides combat modules.
Combat droids fight, they don't make stuff.
Jenden wrote:
Ok then, new theory on what is going on. This debate has nothing to do with Star Wars continuity.....it has to do with gameplay and game mechanics.
.....
You have to take into account game balance, economic stability, overall enjoyment for everyone.
1. Game Balance:
Currently there are no professions that has all the diversity that a droid engineer/combat profession would have all rolled into one.
.....
This causes serious game balance issues, which would just lead to more nefs, pissing you off.
2. Economic Stability:
If droid engineers were given combat droids that they could use.....you would get an influx of new people into the profession.....The bad thing is that most of these people would not care about in any way about the crafting or utility areas of the profession.....
3. Overall Enjoyment of Everyone:
People are bitching about CH's right now, partially because it is not "star warsy".....if someone wanted to take out high-end targets.....Now they just find a CH (or become one themselves) and they can take down whatever they want.
Jenden, I agree with so much of what you've said. Some of it for a little different or added reasons.
Designing SWG was a mix of trying to bring the Star Wars universe to the massive online public with various game mechanics that 'worked' for an online game. I mean, realistically, one shot from a blaster should take your head off. But would that be much fun? Not really.
To your points:
1. Game balance
I think that the diversity of DE with combat droids would give us an unfair earning potential, but if our combat droids are comparable to CH combat pets, it will not lead to any combat balance issues. Hopefully that wouldn't lead to to many nerfs. But it seemssome peoples favorite past time is swinging 'the bat'.
2. Economic Stability
DE would definitely get and influx of users if it became popular. But I think most of the players would take DE skills to USE droids not make them. And if experimentation worked, it would be alot harder for arm chair DE to make quality droids. Dedicated DE, the chosen, would still be able to crank out superior droids.
3. Overall Enjoyment of Everyone:
I think the reason CH became such a problem was just that the situation got out of hand. You shouldn't be able to solo high end targets. I don't care what anyone says. But also because it didn't seem to alot of users that it had the Star Wars feel. If everyone were running around with droids, I don't think they could make that claim. If the new DE skills are added with a little forethought - creationhigh skill requirements, and usage low skill requirements - the impact on the profession wouldn't be that bad.
Good points as usual. Keep em coming