Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DE's keep killing the DE economy
AudioOrgana wrote:The one thing that is not broken about DE's is the profit margins.
This is the one thing I really disagree with Sintrosi on. I actually would like to help show him how to make money - because I don't know a single Master DE who is as broke as he is.
The DE products make a higher ROI then any other profession, bar none.
There is one of these "undercutters" living near my vendor, and I still get great business - because I'm the best, and people know it.
We are broken in many ways, but the ability to make money is NOT one of them.
Audio
I agree with you. I know that I'm personally a comfortable member of the "Millionaire's Club". I have been since I made master and stopped having to spend all those credits on steel and fibreplast. Are there any MDEs out there who are having a tough time keeping their heads above water? If so, you should really take a look at your business model. Get a vendor, advertise it on the map and keep it well stocked.
Have you been a WS or AS?
AudioOrgana wrote:
The DE products make a higher ROI then any other profession, bar none.
It isn't just price - it is your name as well, and networking.
If you take the time to explain the workings of a droid to someone who doesn't understand how they work, if you talk to the regulars in the cantina, and network with other merchants, you should be able to turn a nice proffit.
There is much more to being a merchant / DE then just grinding 
Gerenth wrote:
Hm, I suppose it's sad that I will never take in more than 10k for a droid, then
I agree that the clustered probot is probably a greivable exploit, but no one can "ruin the economy" by charging a lower price. They'll run out of money and/or move too few units to matter. (they can support low pricing by making money some other way, but they'll spend so much time at that they won't make many droids)
You can make a profit at < 10k for a full blown R3 (maybe not a BLL, but any useful droid). If you choose to charge more, cool, more business for me. But eventually people will regard droids as a pricey luxury, rather than an affordable tool.
so have functional models for 10k or less, i sell r4's for 10k storage/data/craft station if they want a fancier model they pay more. if you charge less then 5k a droid you really are killin the market, cash is just sooo easy to get with missions :/
Ackis wrote:
Have you been a WS or AS?
AudioOrgana wrote:
The DE products make a higher ROI then any other profession, bar none.
No, but I've done the math looking at the schematics.
I'm not saying they are really worse off, because they have such a large volume.
But I think if you look at the resources, identical factory parts, etc., they need, you will see we generally make more of a ROI (return on investment).
Remember, virtually nothing in the DE tree matters when it comes to quality of materials right now. About the only thing that really needs them is good chemicals for Probots, which with our new experimentation points gives us a few more points of HAM. Even then, it's the difference between 820 and 826 or so HAM, which in battle really doesn't add much value to the Probot.
WS and AS are completely different - people won't buy anything but guns made from the "best" resources.
That said, I do try to use the highest quality materials in my droids, just because, LOL. But look at our modules, for instance - a level 6 med module is 110 medical, it will never get any higher (I've heard people say they have experimented and gone a few points higher - but I don't believe it - I've experimented with them a lot). It doesn't matter if you use crappy metal or the best - the final droid product is the same.
That means when I find any good steel deposit, I throw down a medium harvester, let it go for a few days, and I have enough metal to last me a few weeks once you stop grinding.
I never went over 100K when I was grinding up the tree (even though I sold an awful lot of droids on my way up - I was a Master in July). Since then it's been smooth sailing - once a week I do a factory run of some Probots, some with medic, some with item storage, etc., throw them up on the vendor, and spend the rest of the week adventuring. I still take special orders when they come in, just to keep my name out there for other droids, but DE has been very good for me financially.
I'm not living in a box and thinking, "Well, if it's not a problem for me, it can't be a problem for anyone else...", but I honestly don't see how a Master DE with a vendor either in a mall or someplace registered on the planetary map can't be making money.
There is lots broken for our profession, and some annoying bugs (please someone bump my "Please Throw Us A Bone..." thread! ), but the one place I think we are doing well in is financial matters. They key is not undercharging, and not overcharging.
People are willing to pay well for well made droids by a DE they know, but by pricing them as some people say in the 45-55K range is going to price out a lot of the population. Not every combat personis rich anymore - between decay and armor and weapons and buffs, some of them are just breaking even. The days of easy 25K missions is largely over. By keeping droids in the mid-range you are saying your product is quality, but not luxury.
A lot of this is going to change when we get the "new" combat droids we are told are coming - and to be honest, I only see it getting better from here. The only worry is overpopulation of the profession (I have seen a lot more novice DE's around lately...) but those who have always been known as fair and good artisans will thrive.
Audio
I always find pricing discussions interesting. One factor that I think is important to consider is the near-hyper inflation in SWG. Simply, it is way too easy to make money and there are not enough credit sinks. This has big consquences for artisan and merchant pricing. For many players, there is no difference between prices of 20k, 40k, 100k, or perhaps even higher.
The highest benchmark price is the holocron. Witness how many people are willing to pay several million credits for what isthe most coveted item in the game. With the exception of weapons, armor, and high-end architect structures, nearly all artisan offerings are like ants among elephants, in this context.
This virtual inflation is a difficult problem to fix The insurance/decay activation helps somewhat, but has its own problems as well.
As have already told the Devs, any group of players needs only one Holocron.
Wait till the server goes down, read your holocron and take note. when the server comes back up it is in your inventory again - pass it on.
What a mess eh? Reported as an exploit and still it goes on.
It is sad they don't listen
Good for you AudioOrgana. My main concern is people nesting modules into the module sockets where they aren't supposed to go. The pricing doesn't bother me as much as this.
Again. Exactly two modules provide a usefull affect. The remainder do not. So why does it matter if a droid is pumped full of modules that are either non-functional or marginally functional?
I experiment on EVERY piece of equipment that goes into a droid. My droids are quality made with quality resources that I pay way out for. People will pay money for quality products.
None of which makes any difference at all. An experimented component made with 900+ resources is exactly as effective as an unexperimented component made with <100 resources. And if you're not telling your customers that, and charging them for a benefit that does not exist you're raping people even worse.
DE's should have a large ROI, because droids should be the main focus in SWG.
NOTHINGgives anyone the right to a markup as obscene as the one you're quoting. 1000%+(?) is gouging. But you'll learn to regret that when your server is flooded with DE's in January because of your markup.
I'll also point out that Weapons were a main focus of SW as well. Should WS charge 75k for their guns? No. And neither should you.
And the probes I charge 55K for have a crafting station of high quality and item storage, and two of the best armor mods that can be added.
There is no such thing as a high quality crafting station or armor module. The numbers on the experimentation effect mechanism quality ONLY as is readily displayed by the fact that every component has that rating, and NO component shows any benefit of experimentation. A -10 Armor module or Med module is just as effective as a +10. The end products display that VERY clearly. Again, if you're telling your customers that your product is "High quality" you're ripping them off.
I don't see how you have room to talk, being that each DE charges different prices based upon quality and time to production.
Actually, if you looked around before making that assumption, you'd find that many people charge in direct proportion to the rarity of the elements, the quantitiy of the elements, and factory time. You'll also find that most people aren't charging anywhere near 55,000 credits for a droid that falls over in 3 hits on an advanced planet with a crafting station that's useless to all but the Medics, and 10 spaces of storage that few people use. In fact, Probots go for 10-20k on Radiant, depending on modules in stalled.
And you know, I still don't make much of a profit even when selling a lot of droids because I use that money to buy resources and equipment needed in the production.
Either you're not selling many droids, or you're not telling the truth. Selling droids at a fraction of what you charge I've made over 600,000c in a week. On Radiant which seems to have the highest number of DEs and the lowest prices.
I could care less about making millions and being filthy rich and snotty. I like making droids, and if that's what my droids sell good at, you bet I'll charge for it, especially since the quality is good.
Then why are you posting about the economy if you don't care? Because it's cutting into your obscene pricing. You're just backpedaling now. And as I've said numerous times, your droids are of no better and no worse quality than any other DE anywhere. The end product is exactly the same regardless of components, and quality of resources.
Oh, and you really shouldn't say this DE "rips people off". Go buy anything else from anybody else. You'll notice the markup price is high.
Big assumption there. I paid no where near your markup for my house, my harvesters, my armor, my weapons. Even my workstation cost me 5,000c. Perhaps your server has an issue with people marking things up to obscene levels. I promise you, not every server is like that. Try Radiant.
So sure, go pop your droids back into your factory and mass produce to make millions. You may make more money than I do, but at least I put effort into making the best droids I can possibly produce. And I feel that deserves the $$, and apparently so do a lot of other people.
Again the premise that your droids are somehow better than those anyone else can product. I'll say it one last time here. No droid is any better or any worse than any other droid regardless of what went into it. To claim that it is, to give your customers who don't know any better the impression that there is somehow a difference between your product and someone elses, and then charging them obscene markups *is* raping them. In the real world, it would be bordering illegal. In the game, unfortunately, you'll continue to get away with it until ~January when DE's get changed and people grind up DE to realistically price droids in comparison to yours.
You can justify however you'd like. But the reality is, you will suffer the consequences when DE is fixed. Your server will likely have an massive price war that'll make Architects look like a good profit margin.
shawns122 wrote:
There is a DE on Naboo on the Eclipse server that is killing the DE economy. I have tried telling him about keeping general socket module clusters where they are supposed to go. I've offered to help him out on his way reduced prices too. He seemed to want me to help him once I sent him an email about an exploited probot and an offer to help him adjust prices. I went back to his vendor today and noticed about 8 more exploited probots on his vendor that were just added, full blown with crafting station, data storage, item storage, med modules, and repair modules. He is obviously aware that an advanced probot should only be able to hold 2 modules, no general module socket clusters, yet he continues to do so. Are they ever going to fix the general socket module cluster? He is killing the DE economy. I hate to ask, but can things like this be reported to a CSR so that the exploited droids are removed from the vendor? He's selling these probots for a mere 30K. If that's his max topout droid, that's pretty sad considering the highest he'll ever make is 30K from a droid. I'm selling droids for 45 and 55K, and they sell fine.
I think you're out of line here. This is a free market, and using the General Module Socket Cluster is NOT an exploit.