Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: GarVa, what the ____ are you talking about (regarding hate)??!?!
And you know if they don't get answered, the poster will just bump or post again... and again...
A number of the other boards have such posts stickied - Sintrosi's was just a bit sharper in asking people not to keep posting the same darn quesitons over and over.
Sketh wrote:
The post to the Holo-chasers was deleted too.
Oh, great, more fielding 40 of the same question a day.
The post was not deleted, it was unstickied, encouraging people to be rude to "non purist DE's" is not welcome on these forums, the droid engineer forum is for everyone, not just droid engineers, to discuss and ask questions about droid engineers. People being rude to them or angry at them for just "passing through" the profession and encouraging 1 staring any post by them is not something that should happen on these forums.
Let me also stated that the opposite is true, I was not meaning the love hate thing just at you guys, but to the "holocron DE" in that discussion. Yes this forum IS supposed to be a pleasant community spot not a fighting one. Sin can remake the thread, I will lock and stickie it so there will be no responses to it. If someone starts trolling the forum, or ranting how "DE's Stink" then please feel free to report it.
Message Edited by GarVa on 11-26-2003 09:26 AM
SulkyMonkey wrote:
What made me annoyed by the original stickied post (which I did not report by the way or complain to the mods about) was the tone from your correspondent, but more than that, it was the many reponses from other DE's telling people to 1 star any noob posts that appear to get them off the front page. That really is not fair guys.
I actually apologized for the tone of my original post and I still think that the best way to keep everyone happy would be for a stickied post but with slightly different information. How hard would it be to post something called 'NEW DEs LOOK HERE FIRST' with some decent links to various information sources. New players could also post any questions there and keep the hundreds of messages from the front page.
I think we all need to remember as well that not every person starting as a DE is on a holocron marathon. Some people may just be starting out in this game or the DE profession and all I was trying to convey is that the current tone of your forum does not give much of a welcoming feeling to these new players.
Feel free to 1 star those that want a quick route to Master - just don't paint everyone with the same brush because the bottom line is that some players are much younger than others, or really don't know how to effectively search these forums for the information - maybe English is not even their first language. And the more accessible this information is the less time you guys will have to waste discussing the issue.
The thing is - it didn't say to one-star every newbie post.
THere was a very sharp line drawn between the type of post that was objected to, and the posts from even the holoDE's that actually wanted to play the profession while they were on their journey to master. Those posts were not to be one-starred. In fact, SIntrosi actually saluted the people who were chasing the holo, but wanted to actually BE a droid engineer while they were on their journey.
/bow
SulkyMonkey wrote:
What made me annoyed by the original stickied post (which I did not report by the way or complain to the mods about) was the tone from your correspondent, but more than that, it was the many reponses from other DE's telling people to 1 star any noob posts that appear to get them off the front page. That really is not fair guys.
It may not have been fair...that's true. But it worked. Since that post (and 'edict') went out, I've seen the "How do I macro..." posts drop to near nil.
This was a good thing for this forum. Anyone that tells you otherwise hasn't been paying all that much attention to the DE profession forum. I am here (a LOT) daily....so I know whereof I speak.
I believe that Sintrosi's comment regarding 1-starring of Holocron posts had to do primarily with those that posted in an indignant, stamping-their-feet kind of manner. As if they somehow had the right to get information and 'secrets' from others that worked their tails off for it. Even without the sticky, I'm sure you're still going to see that kind of thing happen here, with or without the 'edict' being in place.
I actually apologized for the tone of my original post and I still think that the best way to keep everyone happy would be for a stickied post but with slightly different information.
Yea...me too. We needsomething like that post togo back up to keep the forum focused.
How hard would it be to post something called 'NEW DEs LOOK HERE FIRST' with some decent links to various information sources. New players could also post any questions there and keep the hundreds of messages from the front page.
Actually, the "FAQ" thread is a pretty good place to start and should answer most any questions that new DEs could likely have on the profession.
I think we all need to remember as well that not every person starting as a DE is on a holocron marathon. Some people may just be starting out in this game or the DE profession and all I was trying to convey is that the current tone of your forum does not give much of a welcoming feeling to these new players.
If that's the case, you'll have to pardon our cynicism and jadedness. If you read a bit on our profession, you'll start to understand why (and where this all came from)...
I will say that the DE community is like no other in the game. No other community (to my knowledge) has has inter-server profession meeting, in-game mailing lists, etc. We have (I think) banded together as no other profession yet has...
This is a good thing (which you may just have yet to experience, that's all).
Feel free to 1 star those that want a quick route to Master - just don't paint everyone with the same brush because the bottom line is that some players are much younger than others, or really don't know how to effectively search these forums for the information - maybe English is not even their first language. And the more accessible this information is the less time you guys will have to waste discussing the issue.
Yes...I'd agree. From my experience, however, people simply don't take the time to read and research for themselves. It's a sad fact...but a fact, no less.
I am personally betting that there will be plenty of 1-stars handed out in the future, even though it won't be a DE 'policy' to do so.
Respectfully,
My entire problem with the initial post concerning Holocron DE's was not only the tone in which it was writen, but the fact that further posts encouraged griefing.
Yes, griefing. Anytime you try to organize a group response to another type of person/ group of people to make their game experience less enjoyable, you are guilty of griefing.
I made Master DE after being told to do it by the 1 Holocron I was able to acquire. I dropped Merchant to get DE, and anyone who is a Merchant and DE knows true pain. While I wanted to become a Master as fast as possible, I already knew how to macro and what to grind.
I am now selling droid deeds, training other DE's, and I actually wear my Master DE tag more than my Master Armorsmith or Master Artisan tag. I have seen all that is broken with DE, am amazed that this profession wasn't the first thing fixed after live, and will continue to throw my support behind the DE community to get the profession fixed.
I am not, however, a purist. The very word raises elitist connotations, and uncomfortable ones at that. I will not support or codone an active effort to grief anyone, even if they are "Holocron DE's", and will report it anytime I see an active effort being mounted.
You don't like the posts asking about how to become an "Instant Master" then don't answer them. But they have as much right to ask on this forum as you do to ignore them, and trying to organize a grief campaign against them makes you look worse than the people who can't be bothered to search for the answers themselves.
Also remember, some people aren't computer savvy. This is my first MMPORG, and I am still learning the in's and out's of the systems, including the forums. If you tell someone to search, give them the benefit of the doubt and tell them where they can go to learn the forum functions, just in case they are here because its Star Wars, and not because they are MMPORG junkies.
I agree with the spirit of your post (and its attempt to settle down this issue).
GraySeven wrote:
But they have as much right to ask on this forum as you do to ignore them...
...and we have the same right to 1-star them (with or without 'prompting' to do so).
My take on this is that I go by the attitude and tone of the person in question. Everyone's a bit different.
/bow
Respectfully,
GarVa,
Many of us "purist" DEs aren't caustic by nature, contrary to the way that this thread has made us come across. We wholeheartedly encourage anyone with the patience and willingness to master DE, regardless of whether they are "Holocroners/Holo-chasers" or truly interested in becoming (and remaining) a DE. The base issue at hand here is what several people have stated numerous times before: there should be a sense of common courtesy between both groups, regardless of your motives for being in this profession.
A few pages back, I posted an incident that happened to me in-game where a Holo-chaser approached me and said, "Hail fellow DE! I'm also trying to master it. Can you teach me any skills?" At first, I was elated that he was taking the time to learn such a time-consuming and broken profession, but I then took a look at his current title (Commando) and then realized that this uber combat-class powergamer wasn't in this for the pleasure of building droids...it was because he was on his quest to get his precious FSCS opened and be able to build/use a lightsaber. I then asked him if it was because a Holocron told him to do so. He answered "Yes, it did." I was then dubious about teaching him due to all the things I had heard about Holocroners, but did it anyway...and for free to boot.
No sooner had I taught him a skill, that he suddenly became a complete jerk. He laughed at me and said, "Your profeshun sucks azz! I can't wait to master it so I can drop it. Droids are worthless and stupid." Now...I fully realize at this point that the age and IQ of this player were both probably around 16, but to purposelygo out of his way to dupe me into training him, and THEN blasting my profession (and on some level me, personally) as soon as he got what he wanted...that tends to piss a person off.
Since then,I have personally turned away no less than 20 or so Holochasers, and getting called some rather creative things in the process. I have also contacted every single Master DEthat I know on my server and have suggested that they do thesame. Do I care that I'm creating a bottleneck on the highway to becoming Jedi? Not in the least. These people need to start showing a little more respect toward us in-game, if they expect us to train/help/advise them. Its that simple. Now, I understand that the "purist" DE community as a whole needs to lighten up a little and not lump every single new NDE into the catagory of Holocroner. This is something that we are alltrying to work on, but this goes both ways.
If a Holocroner feels that DE sucks or is too time-consuming, compared to the relative small "payoffs" for all the hard work and XP grinding...they need to keep those comments to themselves. By telling a Master DE that the profession sucks right now, they are preaching to the choir. We've been there...we KNOW it sucks and it's long and it's boring and there's very little content worth all the resources and XP. But we love what we do, because we love droids. If the vast majority of Holocroners don't like the profession, then shut up about it, grind out your MDE and move on.
But bottom-line is that a LOT of this animosity between Holocroner and the DE elite directly stems from the lack of social skills that a good portion of Holocroners have shown us in-game.
Garva -
And we get this sort of joy on the forums:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=41490
Wonder were the hate has come from HMMMM? Maybe that is the question that should be adressed. But hey your right shouldnt be on these forumns.
Constructivly gaurentee never to train a soul, also constructively gaurentee if a droid part is needed for a vehicle to never make a part for anyone other then a de or friend 
And will not post to any non de posts again, i will however reserve the right to 1 star each and every one
I would like to know if there is any DE who reads this board other than myself that doesn't care about the questions.
Everybody is here to play a game. A person wanting to become a Jedi and looking for a way to macro his way through DE is playing the game. Its not his or her fault that SOE came up with this system. The best thing that ever happened to DE was holocroners because now enough of the other players know that DE has problems and needs to be fixed. Before it was only a handful of people who had DE friends.
I am sick of seeing "uber combat gaming" comments. I have some of the same uber combat skills everybody refers to. If I had my pistoleer tag up while talking to a fellow DE I wonder if they would treat me with as much contempt because they assume they are a holocron DE? I've been playing since day 1 and there are alot of skill points. Shoot me for wanting to try a bit of everything.
People have every right to ask questions on the forum. The search function on the forums for one is HORRIBLE. Try using advanced search and you will still come back with pages upon pages of posts most of which are outdated.
Sticky posts are there but if you have been on other profession boards you will know that FAQ's are not always helpful. (Ours is one of the best). Plus sometimes its just better to get a human to answer your question so that you can make sure you understood it right. I think the DE profession is a bit confusing at times and I had many questions when I first started that I was afraid to ask. Yep, thats right afraid. Too many people here flame before they think.
People who tell you that the profession sucks after you trained them are nimrods. Brush it off. There are tons of kids and jerks in this game and in every profession. You are not the only profession that has been told to their face that they suck. Like it or not, CH gets more hatred than we can ever dream of. Try talking to a CH friend someday and ask them about people trashing them about prices.
The only way for our profession to get respect is to be nice. To help everyone. I don't want to sound caustic or get flamed but I'm a DE (since month 1) and I like to help people. I even like to help jerks because what goes around comes around. It takes a big person to be pleasant all the time.
I'm just trying to be honest. If I came here and read the forum I would never ever buy a droid because of the attitudes I see presented. Being nice and working in a constructive manner are the only things that are going to save us.
Lets swallow our pride and be nicer for the good of DE!
Entirely too much HATE and not enough LUV on this forum, clean it up guys and I mean it.
GarVa
After being lied to, ignored, etc. for a long time, what else do you expect? Pfft!