Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: I spoke to soon ...
I gotta agree with Marsx, TK. I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding Sintrosi's job. I have a lot of respect for her dedication and all the work she's done for us, but she's not a dev...
I just think jumping TH for Sin's not "being in the loop" was a bit declasse.
No offense intended.
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Uhhh....readmy post again, man.
I'm not calling them to the carpet for the changes, per se.
What is bothersome is that it seem our Correspondent was left out of the loop completely, with regard to building the plan itself. It is THAT issue to which I speak when I say that I find their lack of communication to our correspondent (and every other, it seems) is insulting.
For example: Did they discuss each item of the plan they putting forth with Sintrosi in advance?
She states that's not the case (until the day they are ready to release it).
/bow
Respectfully,
The DEVs do not answer to Sintrosi. Sintrosi is not a paid member of the SWG team (correct me if I'm wrong). Sintrosi's job is to organize and present our collective concerns to the DEVs so that the DEVs can figure out what needs to be done (and she does an awesome job at it).
If the world according to TheRealTK421 was realized, it would take MUCH longer for us to get these updates, because they'd have to go back and forth and "approve" everything through the correspondant. Not only that, but the correspondant would start taking the heat for unwelcome changes because they "approved" them before they went live. This would be completely unfair if, asI previously assumed, the correspondants are volunteers.
Please keep this in mind when assessing the behaviour of the development team.
Exactly what I feel Audio.
She has been in the loop with them feeding them ideas and giving feedback on their special board for awhile now, they've been constructing this plan from that. They are now ready to take it to the next step and bounce the plan off us, before finalizing it and taking it to development. In no way has she been left out of the loop.
There's only so much cooresponding you can do before you have to take it to the next level, which they are doing to get feedback from us now.
Stegalin wrote:
Um, that's exactly what they are doing, running this idea by us. this is a "plan" it's not set in stone. I really don't see why your all up in arms about this.
You don't?!?! Well...maybe being in Beta changed me and I have a different perspective on the situation.
To AudioOrgana: I'm not picking apart the "plan". I wouldn't presume to do so until I saw it. I am referring solely to the amount/quality of communication to the correspondent. It befuddles me that they wouldn't want to use her experience and knowledge of the DE issues and community thought as a 'sounding board' first...to help temper the best plan possible. I never expect that you (of all people) wouldn't have been able to see my point and agree with it (since I've seen you post similar concerns in the past).
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
To AudioOrgana: I'm not picking apart the "plan". I wouldn't presume to do so until I saw it. I am referring solely to the amount/quality of communication to the correspondent. It befuddles me that they wouldn't want to use her experience and knowledge of the DE issues and community thought as a 'sounding board' first...to help temper the best plan possible. I never expect that you (of all people) wouldn't have been able to see my point and agree with it (since I've seen you post similar concerns in the past).
I wasn't refering to you specificly, just the general way people are already jumping on the topic in general instead of waiting to see what she brings.
And yes, I have been, and still am, very critical of the corrispondent system as a whole.
However, I do believe in giving credit where it is due.
As I said above Sintrosi has been discussing ideas/fixes/etc. with the Devs on the "special" board for weeks, and has already told us she had information on proposed changes weeks ago, just could not tell us about it.
What we are waiting for is their final "go ahead" and going over with Sintrosi the details of the final plan.
This is the same thing as when Q or even Holo has to get permission before final posting of something, to go over the final details before information is released.
I am actually impressed that they are letting her do it.
Then again, they are also opening her up to a lot of crap if the news isn't as good as we hope.
Either way, the process looks good to me - the consulted her during the planning stages, went back, and did they work they are paid for, and now are going over the final plan with her. For a non-employee, I think they are actually giving her more input than I would have thought.
Audio
I just want to go on record as agreeing 110% with Therealtk
Our correspondant geniunely wants to help this proffession be all tha it can be, and just that desire alone makes her the perfect person for them to bounce ideas off of, and to present internal plans to, for commentary.
That communication with her is very minimal upsets me. They need to interface with her directly, she can help them, and she should be consulted often with information flowing both ways.
I'm 100% wrong. Nevermind. Forget I brought it up.
/shrug
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Okay...well. Were you in beta? Do you have first-hand knowledge of how they used to discuss potential changes/issues with the community?
If not, you have NO basis to say this. I'm quite well aware of how it all "works", thank you very much. Let me leave you with a quote from Sintrosi:
Yes, you're right, I was not in beta. If you feel that I therefore have no right to post this opinion, that is your right.
I in no way intended this to be a personal attack on you, TK. I have read many of your previous posts and have a great respect for your opinions.
That said, I would like to opine that there is a fundamental difference between beta and live (though some would argue that it seems like we're still in beta). The community that they are now corresponding with (you may take the word corresponding with whatever degree you see fit) is many many times larger than the beta community. This makes the whole process much more complex.
I guess I feel for the DEVs because I'm a programmer myself. At the beginning of my process, the people that will be using the product have a lot of say in how they want it to look and feel. At some point, however, I have to sit down and do the work. When I think I'm done, I get approval from them, make any changes, and release it to them. Inevitably they will want more changes, and inevitably they will be upset that it's not as easy to make those changes now because the program was set up ina certain way according to their original request.
That doesn't mean I don't make those changes, it just means it's going to take me a bit longer. I guess I'm applying that same sense to this game, and whether that's correct or incorrect I don't know.
TH is working on a better system of working with the correspondants. The guys' been here two weeks - give him a little time...
I'm going to recuse myself from this thread after this post as I feel I'm getting a bit off topic.
/bow
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Stegalin wrote:
Um, that's exactly what they are doing, running this idea by us. this is a "plan" it's not set in stone. I really don't see why your all up in arms about this.
You don't?!?! Well...maybe being in Beta changed me and I have a different perspective on the situation.
To AudioOrgana: I'm not picking apart the "plan". I wouldn't presume to do so until I saw it. I am referring solely to the amount/quality of communication to the correspondent. It befuddles me that they wouldn't want to use her experience and knowledge of the DE issues and community thought as a 'sounding board' first...to help temper the best plan possible. I never expect that you (of all people) wouldn't have been able to see my point and agree with it (since I've seen you post similar concerns in the past).
I don't care who was in beta and who wasn't really. Processes change. you can not equate the coorespondent system to anything in beta, or beta in general.Put that card away, it holds no wieght anymore, it's now well past release.
As I stated before, she has been giving them feedback and probably been unaware that that feedback has been rolled into this plan. The plan from that feedback is now ready to be pushed for feedback from us. she gets to see it before us because she is the person that is going to post it. I doubt there is something in there that she has never seen before.
so, yes, I don't see why your getting upset about this.
Sintrosi wrote:
I am going over the proposed changes ..etc with the DEVs right now. Expect a post in the next hour or so. Go get some lunch and check back
Sintrosi wrote:
TH is still waiting for permission to release. Politics and all. Sorry I shouldnt have given a time frame. It will be today though from what I understand.
I can't wait, please tell TH to hurry