Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Hey TK can you get an answer to this? It is driving me nuts...
TheRealTK421
Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:26 am
#14
If you're hitting the top, then you're hitting the top. /shrug
Malitevv wrote:
gribnitz is already hitting the top and is wasting resources trying to go further than that because of this idea that you can't do it without the assembly bonuses.
What I know is that a better Assembly roll will make it easier to get to the top. I'm not sure I'd call it a "requirement".
/bow
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:52 pm
#15
/bow
Malitevv wrote:
what does that mean "got an amazing".
Sorry, I didn't mean to be cryptic. I mean that by getting anamazing result, I see the greatest amount of possible increase (within that allowedby the resources in use).
are you talking about amazing success during experimentation or something else?? I get amazing successes during experimentation all the time. it never changes the maximum possible that I can get from the resources at hand.
No, that's true. Your resources should allow for a max. possible result on any particular item.
in my experience the resources themselves set a hard cap on the best you can possibly get. you seem to be claiming otherwise but I've never seen this to be the case. can you please explain how this suppossedly works other than just saying "got an amazing"?
From what I can tell, the resources set what's possible. In that regard, you're correct. From there, the rolls you get on experimentation go to how close you can get to that maximum. In some cases you can hit it.
For the Harvest module, specifically, I've seen that gettnig to 20 meant getting Amazing results on experimentation, but not by using all points at once. Instead, I had to use them one at a time and try to get a great/amazing on each point use.
Respectfully,
Gribnitz
Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:31 pm
#16
Ugh, no idea what I did here. Ignore all these blank posts....
Message Edited by Gribnitz on 06-15-2004 05:40 PM
Gribnitz
Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:38 pm
#17
Let me put this in perspective:
Kauri's best resources, which I am using:
Dimekaine Duralloy Steel COND 639 OQ 982
Abiwep Polysteel Copper COND 956 OQ 963
Dideigecsis Inert Gas OQ 980
Naritus's best resources
Oni Steel COND 516 OQ 974
Lufini Copper COND 967 OQ 887
Grikkobium Inert Gas OQ 963
Kauri's Steel is 131 points higher OQ/COND than Naritus
Kauri's Copper is 65 points higher OQ/COND
Kauri's Gas is 17 points higher OQ
The best we have come up with on Kauri is a 109 Creature Harvest Droid and Naritus has made a 114 Droid with lesser materials. Evidently Erillion has discovered someway to make lesser materials make better items than higher quality materials. I am trying to figure out what that is.....How it was achieved. I have tried experimenting one box at a time or all boxes at once and get the same results even with an amazing assembly.
Do you need to get an amazing assembly followed by multiple amazing experimentations ??? How many amazing experimentations seem to move the stats up? I have gotten 1to 3 amazing experimentations after an amazing assembly with the best possible materials ever on Kauri and get the same result.
Malitevv
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:03 pm
#18
i did a little research on swgcraft and noticed the same thing. I am fairly certain that 114 should not be possible with the resources he used. My guess is thata bug enabled him to get 114 "by accident" or he didn't really achieve 114. Until I've seen the droid, or someone else verifies that the droid actually exists on Naritus, I will remain skeptical.
/shrug
Straker_Atrella
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:22 pm
#19
Well I don't like to disbelieve people as well, but something doesn't seem right.
Perhaps he used different resources? Older ones with better stats.
Malitevv
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:25 pm
#20
the resources he used are the best resources to ever spawn on naritus, if swgcraft.com can be trusted, and it is usually pretty accurate. and in any case, if you go back to his original thread, those ARE the resources which he said he used.
Gribnitz
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:33 pm
#21
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Well I don't like to disbelieve people as well, but something doesn't seem right.
Perhaps he used different resources? Older ones with better stats.
No, what I show are the best ever to spawn on each server (it is OQ and COND on the CH module right? I am pretty sure it is).
My problem with this is that I get a 24% base assembly whether I get an amazing assembly or a great assembly. I haven't triedballs to the wall experimentation to gamble on an amazing experimentation attempt using all points at once to see if it makes a difference. If the base assembly is 24% and great assembly is 24%, I don't see why using all or one exp boxes at a time would make a difference. The base assembly % has to fudge to make the difference, and I can't get it to happen even with all the skill points I have piled on.
Ectopic
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:38 pm
#23
It's possible that the assembly roll at the initial crafting phase determines the percentage of the resource cap that can be reached with full experimentation.
^ that's a horrible sentence, so let me clarify what I'm saying with an example and fake numbers:
lets say you make a OQ/COND item and use resources with 900 in each category. The maximum percentage that you can reach with experimentation would be 90%.
Now, let's say that with a "great success" on assembly, you max out with 80% of the theoretical max of 90% (=max experimentation value of 72%).
And, with an "ok success," you max out at 70% of the theoretical max of 90% (=max experimentation value of 63%)
And, with an "amazing success," you max out at 100% of the theoretical max of 90% (=max experimentation value of 90%)
i.e. the assembly roll determines what percentage of the max you can achieve,
or you can think about it like: the assembly roll determines the initial percentage based on the quality of resources, which limits max experimentation
Now, here's where it can get interesting, what if the assembly roll is not as quantum as simply "ok," "great," and "amazing." What if the assembly roll is actually a number from 0-100, and 90-100 falls into the "amazing" category, 80-90 falls into "great," etc.
If this is true, then its possible that the range is not simply 0-100%, but in fact is 0-105%. So that (assuming a completely random and unweighted roll, which is untrue due to the crafting assembly stat), there is a 1/105 chance that you will roll a 105% on an assembly roll, that it would still be called an "amazing success," and that the max experimentation achieved is 105%.
I didn't really think this through, and my mind is currently altered, but lemme know if that makes sense.
Message Edited by Ectopic on 06-15-2004 04:40 PM
Straker_Atrella
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:45 pm
#24
What you said makes sense, but my tests didnt support that.
Whether I got an Amazing, or a Great, the end result % was the same.
Unless it would be different in a city with a bonus, or with tapes.
Malitevv
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:47 pm
#25
Ectopic wrote:
It's possible that the assembly roll at the initial crafting phase determines the percentage of the resource cap that can be reached with full experimentation.
Message Edited by Ectopic on 06-15-2004 04:40 PM
we know that is possible, but all three of us has been testing that hypothesis and it never happens that way.
Ectopic
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:59 pm
#26
You're right, but I think that's really only when you have a fair amount of bonuses for assembly and experimentation (i.e. climbing up the respective crafting tree). So it doesn't matter if you get a 20% or 25% on the initial roll, because you have enough experimentation points to hit the max (with an amazing success, you usually have more left over points). But, since you can only use a max of 10 exp points per stat (i.e. if 3 are already filled in, you can only fill in 7 more), you would need the best possible starting stat, i.e. 35% (now, i agree this is hard to swallow, for I have not once seen a starting percentage > 30%, but I'm also not using all 1000 quality resources either.) to hit a max of 105%.
If youthink about it like: the assembly roll determines the initial percentage based on the quality of resources, which limits max experimentation.
Message Edited by Ectopic on 06-15-2004 05:04 PM