Droid Engineer Archive

Keep all combat droids under level 10. Now I know that you are all going to say, WE WANT DROIDEKAS. Well, so do I, but bear with me. The idea behind these Level 10 droids is experimentation. I know it isn't working for droids at all, but imagine that it did.

First and foremost, we would need the ability to heal our droids. With that out of the way, I can move on to my idea.

Allow Droid Engineers the ability to heavily modify the different values that factor into combat. These factors include, armor, HAM, attack strength, attack speed, armor piercing, attack type(energy, kinetic, etc) and type of combat(melee or ranged). This would be something similar to what the Bio-Enigneers have, but still allow for combat droids to be unique. Say I want my droid to have 3000 HAM. I can experiment so that my droid will ahve this high HAM, but he will suffer low armor and attack strength. Say I want my droid to do acid damage, well his attack speed will be 7 seconds or more. This would of course require balancing, but that can be done. Most of all it would do three things for droid engineers: allow them to use the droids that they make; customize thier combat droids, so every DE does not make the same probot with 40% medium armor and 70 attack strength; allow for different droids to be seen all over the galaxies. With these droidds, it should not all be varying types of probots, but different combat chassises(sp) as well. Of course I would be more than willing to wait for more chassis so the Devs can take their time to implement this idea or a better one in a proper fashion.

As for Higher level droids and the certifactions for them. Its a simple idea. If someone has reached a Master of an Elite profession, allow them the use of 1 High level droid. This would prevent people from taking only certain skills to get better pets. If you master two professions, tough, you still only get the certification for 1 droid. Only the Novice professions would not get this at master, excluding Politician because of their nature.

Here is an answer I came up with that works off of measures already in the system so programming should be simple (not as simple as cut/paste the CH profession but it is different and avoids any new professions or Droid Certs).

Have all droids have something called a Reaction Percentage (R%) which is the chance that a droid will react to a command its owner gives it. All utility droids automatically have an R% of 100%. This is for all combat droids:

The total R% is made up by four factors:
-Skill Points (SP) - these are the numbers of skill points that a character has spent on his or her character.
-Personal Consideration Value (PCV) - this is the number that the system uses to determine the /con rating based upon your personal abilities. Although this would change with what you had equipped, you will note later that as this is a combat droid and you would be going into combat, you would want to be equipped with all of your best gear before entering combat/calling your droid. I put it in % since I do not know what the top 'cap' of a PCV can be but there has to be a maximum somewhere.
-Droid Level (DL) - This is similiar to the CL of pets and, I am assuming, is capped at 110. If not, numbers can be adjusted accordingly.
-Command Successes (CS) - This is the number of commands that have succeeded upon your droid. For every 10 commands that succeed, you get an additional +1% to your droid following your orders, up to a maximum equal to the Droids DL percentage.

Therefore, the R%=SP+PCV+DL+CS

SP R%
0-125 5%
126-175 10%
176-213 15%
214-238 20%
239-250 25%

PCV R%
1%-50% 5%
51%-70% 10%
71%-85% 15%
86%-95% 20%
96%-100% 25%

DLR%
1-55 50%
56-76 40%
77-93 30%
94-104 20%
105-110 10%

So, a character who has spent 200 of his skill points, has a Personal Combat Value in 80% range and wants to use a level 100 droid would have a R% of 55%. This could max out with Command Successes to 75% (double the DL Response percentage).

A few notes:
-The higher the DL, the quicker it uses up batteries
-Only a DE can repair the black wounds of a Droid. However, the Droid does 'decay' over time like a weapon.
-Certain skills (that make sense) would add additional bonuses - Such as Tactics (I don't have a list available to me or I would cite each skill I think is relevent)
- +1% for each box in DE completed (Okey, this one is personal but eh, might as well ask for it.)
-Experimentation can increase the the R% of the Droid.
-Certain 'personality chips' will increase the R% of a Droid but reduce the effectiveness of the droid as well (Ala C3PO with a blaster).
-If a droid is ever transferred or given to another character, that Droid's CS is reset to 0
-The R% is determined each time the droid is called forth (to stop someone from Min/Maxing the droid control)
-A character's base R% should be displayed in their character sheet so that they can refer to it when thinking about purchasing a droid. If possible (but can be left to the knowledge of the DE) the droid's deed should display the R% as well.
-The maximum a Droid's CS can increase is 1% per 6 hours (to stop any AFK droid training)
-No faction Combat Droids. Combat Droids are outlawed during this timeframe (The probe droid in ANH wasn't a massive combat machine, just had very low auto defense). Any faction NPC (Rebel commander, Imp Soldier or an AT-ST) or any "Law official" type NPC (Fed-Dub, CorSec) will attack a combat droid on site. This will limit simply walking around with them and/or using them in conjunction with other faction pets and keep the "Uber leet" to a minimum.
-The higher the DL, the more rare the resources. If you want to make a killer bot, it is going to be hard to find the resources and likewise be expensive to buy after crafting.
-DE's will be responsible for the DL of the droid crafted, dependant upon such things as attack modules, defensive modules, overall HAM and droid frame style. It would be best if the DL value of the item crafted could be displayed during crafting and experimentation - that way the DE can tailor his results to fit the order.
-If the Droid fails an 'attack' order, it will still cause the target of the attack to turn upon the droid owner and attack. This is to stop low level characters from simply 'tanking' their way to the top.

I am sure that such a system can be exploited in a way that I haven't noticed. I see the above system having the following bonuses:

-Anyone can have a combat droid. However, the more powerful the droid, the harder it will be for you to control. Low Level characters and those not interested in combat will not be able to control the massive tanks. The High Level, "Uber" fighters will have a better chance at controlling them but they will not be able to use them with any other 'faction' pets and even the DL 110's will more than likely fail their reaction check from time to time. Also, people won't wander around towns with tanks due to the TEF from "law officials". Perhaps you could pop a droid in a remote sector of town but you could be in for a doozy of a fight.

-Is not a duplication of the CH. We don't need a new tree to get all the functionality of the droids. Sure, it is the most easy way out. Having developed games, I don't see how the above could not be implemented with the existing structure of the code. If crafting stations, storage units and other areas that make droids the 'swiss army knives' would cause this coding to be harder, simply remove the ability to put these units into a combat droid. They are meant to fight, not to craft hats.

-It adds a new challenging area to combat as well as giving randomness to the types of droids made. Do you pop your subservient pets or the tempermental droid? Do you want to give your Droidika a less powerful weapon so that it will obey you more often? All sorts of combinations will be crafted and tried out. Eventually, people will create the 'perfect mix' but that will be for only certain levels, with certain abilities and so on. What works great for Timmy may not be the best fit for Alex. And once Timmy decides to go to Master TKA, he might want to turn his Assassin T-40 in for a Droidika Mk 3.

I vote for this idea. I realize that it would be very difficult to do, but even if it takes months to achieve, it would be worth the wait. Even a basic version of this idea would waayyy better than anything that I have seen proposed. Not to say that the other ideas are bad, but this one is above and beyond cool! If this cannot be dont then I vote for the cert system you proposed Drashk.

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Barfalomue wrote:

You may have seen this already, but I cut & pasted this from another one of my posts:

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I have created this thread because my other thread was innocently misunderstood by TH, and manyreaders there then followed his thought. It was beginning to look like the blind leading the deaf at night. (I'm sorry, couldn't help myself, TH, keep reading.

Another reason I have started this thread is to combine all of our thoughts into just one good one. (At least the good that I have seen from other post.)

To start off please understand: There is no want nor need by DE or anyone else to create a Droid Handler profession. This summation of our ideas adapts all existing professions and does NOT add any additional whatsoever. It also does not include certifications. This idea would provide an equal share to anyone wanting to use a droid. With ability to advance them, if that individual pleases. SO PLEASE DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND. THIS IDEA DOES NOT NEGOTIATE A DH PROFESSION NOR CERTIFICATIONS. IT TAKES ADVANTAGE OF EVERYTHING IN THE GAME ALREADY.

Ok. First let me summarize the ideas. Then I will follow it up with a way to incorporate each into the existing game (as per popular interests from other posts).

Ideas:

1. Droids have their own Skill Tree, available to them only, part of them. This is not a branch nor independent tree as part of a player's skill trees. (please do not confuse the two.).
   
2. Droids are modifiable, upgradeable, and master-oriented with DE providing Upgrades and Training.
   
3. Droid's Skills are able to be progressed and bettered through their being used for what they are designed.
   
4. Droids are co-player maintained. (Droid Decay & Destruction)
   
5. Droids providing balance in the game and following TH's requirements for pets plus some additional reinforcements.

Explanation and Integration into our game:

#1: Droids have their own Skill Tree, available to them only, part of them. This is not a branch nor independent tree as part of a player's skill trees. (please do not confuse the two.).

Ok, just to re-iterate to keep from miscommunication or misunderstanding, I will explain this concept in detail.

With this idea, droids would have their own skill tree. This means it would be separate from the player. Consider the droid as an NPC Player. Think of it as (and this may be lame, but good popularly-known explanation) **edit**. Their handlers did not learn the skills the **edit** use. The **edit** learn the skills the **edit** use. You can also think of it somewhat as a part of something in SWG now. Socketed Clothing. When you add a SKILLTAPE, it modifies your clothing, not your player tree. So in essence, the Droids here would have the ability to unlock new "sockets," if you will (skill tree blocks), for you to add pre-designated skills which are governed by that Skill Tree Block, just as in a standard Skill Tree...These skills which would modify the droid, giving it new options, new capabilities and newupgrades. Which, brings me to #2.

#2: Droids are modifiable, upgradeable, and master-oriented with DE providing Upgrades and Training.

Ok, these upgrades and options are determined by skills learned through the Droid's Skill Tree. Options could be swappable weapon attachments, storage containers, personality chips. (Perhaps a droid can only be stupid to start off, but progress after learning new skills). Perhaps a "Droid Personal Generator" is an option at some point in the Droid's skill tree which would allow it to not consume baterries as quickly, or at all, depending on level/quality of droid/generator.

All training would be applied by a DE. Droid attachments would be swapped out by Droid Engineers. This will aid in keeping Droids in demand.

#3: Droid's Skills are able to be progressed and bettered through their being used for what they are designed.

To kind of backtrack, droids can advance with use. Whether used for utility or combat, a droid gains abilities based on its design through using it. Since we are all 'battle-droid' savy, I will use this for an example.

A battle droid has a basic blaster. The droid's master takes it out hunting. It kills off 50 Durni (rotten little rodents. :smileywink. After 50 Durni kills, a mesage pops on your screen: "Battle Droid 'Droideka-007' has ability to learn new skill(s). Would you like to look at it's skill tree now?" With option "Yes" or "No." You select "Yes." This takes you to that particular Droid's Skill tree, also accessable through Droid's Radial Menu in datapad. Just for example: You see there are: "Weapon Enhancements," "Efficiency," "Battle Movements," and "Defensive Capabilities." So you look them over and decide you want "Weapon Enhancements 1: Medium Ranged Weapons." This would include carbine and small rifle-like weapons. So, you contact a DE and ask him what he has to offer. The DE replies to you by saying: "I can make Droideka Rotating Blaster Attachment." All is well. You meet with the DE. He trains (to be explained later) the droid, creates the new weapon, removes the old (which by default is destroyed upon removal) and attaches it to the droid. Returning it to the stamped master (to be explained later), the stamped master finds his droid with the new skill and a new weapon attachment (not just different fire coming from its gun, change the graphic as well). So the master of the droid takes the droid off to continue his quest.

This all kind of hatches a bit into #4.

#4: Droids are co-player maintained. (Droid Decay & Destruction)

All too often, I see that people have vehicles and pets. Once they are purchased, rarely do they need replaced. This drives the market down and take away from the SWG players. I propose, and many have added to this idea, that we create a co-player maintenance on droids. Explained in #3 is the idea of weapons, or upgrades and training. Those are a part of it. But more than that, I think the weapon/utility attachments on the droids should have a decay rate determined by amount of use and quality of attachment. This would keep DE in their field, and not have it dither away after everyone has the best droid in the galaxy. Perhaps make these weapon/utility attachments repairable with a "repair kit" available to anyone for use, but only created by DE. However, everytime the droid's attachments are repaired, if successful (as with armor, it can fail sometimes), the attachment automatically and with no-choiceloses 5-10% of its current max condition. Possibly add in the case of when it reaches 50% of its original manufactured status, it loses 5% effetiveness for every 10% it drops in condition. This would inevitably mean that at some point they are going to have to have it replaced/upgraded. Also, a repair kit to heal the Droid's HAM during battle could be incorporated. This would be similar to a Pet Stim.

I think this would add a personal touch to each droid, rarely having one droid exactly as any other.

#5: Droids providing balance in the game and following TH's requirements for pets plus some additional reinforcements.

I will explain my thought of Master Stamping before I answer #5.

Master Stamping - This would be where when a droid begins to learn skills, it is Stamped to that Master. The skills it attains are solely at use to he/she who was with it when it learned those skills.

OK, now balance/requirement meeting.

This is going to be a bit difficult to explain, but I will give it a shot. I suppose the best wayis to explain the life of a droid in this system from its original assembly.

I, a DE, create a Droideka to sell. I attach a basic weapon to it. I get a message in-game: "Do you have a droideka for sale?" "Yes." I answer. He comes to me and pays me for the droid and takes it.

He (let's call him Bob)...Bob takes the droid and engages in battle. The droid has ability to learn a new skill. Bob comes back to me, trades me the droid, tells me the skill he wants (which then requires 3 of Bob's Skill Points, AND 2000 of his Combat Experience) Bob says "OK." I call the droid and begin to teach it the new skill. A message is sent to Bob: "Aspi has decided to teach your Droid 'Weapon Enhancements 1: Medium Ranged Weapons.' This skill will cost you 2000 Combat Experience Points and 3 Skill Points. Will you allow Aspi to train you droid?" Bob Selects "No." acidentally. A message ghosts on Aspi's screen: "Bob has declined your offer to train his droid." Bob says: "Oops. I didn't mean to do that, can you try again?" So they get it sorted out. The droid learns the new skill and Bob pays me to attacha new weapon to his droid.

Bob gets the droid to a mid-level droid. He decides he is going to change his profession to Entertainer. So, he figures he no longer needs the droid. He decides to sell the Droid. Tim comes along and buys the droid. (this is where droid stamping comes in). Bob trades the droid to Tim. Tim notices the droid has 2/2/2/3 across its Skill Tree. "Hmm nice. Too bad I can't use it, LOL." So Bob and Tim go their separate ways.

Tim takes the Droid and tells it to attack a Durni. The Droid does not attack. But rather, a message is sent to Tim: "Are you sure you want to remove Stamped Skills from Droideka-007?" He selects "Yes." A ghost text appears on Tim's Screen: "Droideka-007 has insufficient skills to use 'Rotating Blaster Attachment.' "

Tim brings it to me and pays me to swap its weapon out for the basic weapon.

Over time, Tim levels his Droid. It dies a few times. He gets it to almost "Master Assault Droideka" status and it dies for the 15th time (subject to change). Upon it's 15th incap, a Ghosted Message appears on Tim's screen: "Your droid has suffered massive damage and is irrepairable, please select destroy from datapad." (this # of lives would be reset if traded between players. This would keep from someone saying they are selling a new droid, when it is on its last life.) Alternate to this, is maybe have the droid lose all of its Skills on its 9th death or something, rather than having it completely destroyed. I think the 2nd option would be best. people may be affraid to spend money on a droid in fear of it being lost (but it is reality).

---There are a few things this story does not cover. That being an additional balancing technique. Each type of droid (battle, entertainer, utility) derives its skills dependent upon its master's abilities. For example, a battle droid would work off of its master's Combat XP. An entertainer would work off of its master's Entertainer XP and a utility Droid would run off of General XP (i.e. The idea of a droid to maintain harvesters, may run off of some basix xp. Whatever the master's original chosen profession from character creation may be...that could be a possibility, but may cause concern for people who may have dropped that profession), or a crafter's xp if the droid is being used for its complimenting crafting abilities.

This would limit combat use to combatants, entertaining abilities to entertainers and so forth...keeping each person to his/her own profession. That would be a fair balance in the game. In real life, a librarian is not going to have a Tank in her purse just because someone might come along and start a war with her...LOL. She would want an organizer, a caclulator, date book, etc...to assist her with her daily duties at the library.Same with a policeman. He/She wouldn't have Martha Stewart Livingitems in his trunk because he likes to assist law-offenders in tideying up their homes before he drags them to jail. LOL. People want droids to compliment their own skills and professions. Someone with Entertainer can not have their Droid learn Combat Skills. But, if you are an entertainer and a Marksman, you could have 2 droids. An entertainer Droid and a combat Droid. Please don't retort to this by saying you want multi-tasking Droids. I never saw a Droideka in the movies suddenly stop killing to take some time in a cantina to play a few bars of the newest hippest song. LOL.

To clear up a possible misunderstanding. Let's say you are a warrior. You have a combat droid. It is a master combat droid. You drop your entire combat profession to become a dancer. The droid will retain those skills, but they will be lost if you try to use it in battle. It keeps them there in case you decide to go back to combat profession. (This is a little dicey, perhaps a small modification in concept on the DEVS' part would clear it up.)

In closing, I hope this clears up any misunderstanding from my previous post:

(cant paste it here, LOL)

Please add your comments here, I hope a Moderator, TH or the like, take a look at this and think it over. I feel, as I am sure many of my readers will as well, that this would be a wonderful addition to this game. Personally, I would be willing to wait a few extra weeks or months to see this type of thing brought into this game. It would definitely get my attention REAL QUICK!

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Barfalomue wrote:

You may have seen this already, but I cut & pasted this from another one of my posts:

________________________

I have created this thread because my other thread was innocently misunderstood by TH, and manyreaders there then followed his thought. It was beginning to look like the blind leading the deaf at night. (I'm sorry, couldn't help myself, TH, keep reading.

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Another vote for Barfalomue's idea (which I won't copy here completely, given it's length). In Knights of the Old Republic, both of the droids had plenty of personality and charm, even though one didn't talk at all. This was achieved in no small part by treating them as characters as opposed to mindless 3d models. This system my friend here has proposed is a strong start down the same path, towards the same result. Though I don't expect any HK-47-esque dialogue to be recorded or even typed up for any of the droids, seeing them evolve as a player might would bring some semblance of intelligence and life to the compeltely lifeless constructs that are currently in SWG.

I may be repeatingan idea, and if so I apologize. (I know Jaitar at least has posted a similar idea)

The developers are looking for a system to make players 'earn' their combat droids, while making them available to all, yet at the same time preventing a possible 'uber' combination of skills that would nerf the whole system. Ok..how about this:

1) Give level 10 and below droids to everyone (already stated by Devs)

2) Give an increase to 'max droid levels' in Master boxes of all professions.

How is this one different from the other 30 give me your idea posts that werent listened to?

all this talk of having to "earn" high-level combat droids makes my head hurt. There are plenty of ways to balance "powerful" droids without requiring certification systems or ridiculous, convoluted, overblown solutions like skill trees or, God forbid, a Droid Handler profession.

Off the top of my head?

Make owning a combat droid a money sink.

Imagine, if you will, the following scenario.

Loke Groundrunner, SWG newbie,is given a Christmas present by a long-time player; a brand-new droideka deed (assuming for this example that a droideka is the most powerful combat droid available. no assumptions as to how powerful that is are needed). Loke squeals like a little girl and creates his new droid, then goes out to spank kimogilas, or whatever.

Some time later, his droideka makes an unhealthy sound and falls inactive, out of power. Loke must now buy droid batteries to power his new friend. Oops. Loke's a newbie, and doesn't have a ton of credits to his name, but batteries are cheap so he gets a few.

Eventually, Loke realizes his droid is getting pretty battered, and will need repairs. Let's assume only a droid engineer can make droid repairs using a droid repair kit. Naturally, they will charge for this service. Loke's still broke from buying the batteries, so he forgoes repairs.

Finally, the droideka has taken too much damage because Loke thought it could solo a rancor. The droid's now incapacitated and requires a DE to get working again. Again, Loke's still broke... so it's back to soloing lesser womp rats until he can get enough money to effect repairs.

Sound familiar? It's what we do with vehicles. Vehicles don't require a Driver professor or certifications to use. Everyone can have one, whether they're given to you or bought at a high price (as they are). They degrade, and can only be repaired under certain circumstances. Droids can be a money sink in the same fashion, and they'll degrade much faster since they'll be used in combat, using up both energy (they should drain batteries much faster than regular non-combat droids) and taking a beating.

So you've either got to have a decent amount of cash to maintain your "combat advantage", which is the same as buying sliced weapons/crates full of spices/full composite armor, or even if it's given to you to overcome the initial "startup cost" of buying the droid, you can only use it for so long before your lack of richness catches up to you and your advantage fades away.

More "powerful" droids can cost more to repair (more complicated systems in the droid). For example, instead of a single droid repair kit, you may need a class IV droid repair kit to repair that droideka, and it's a costly kit to make that may only have one charge, so a droid engineer will charge more for you to use it. Different classes of droids, different repair kits. Also, repeat business to DEs. always a good thing. They can also burn up batteries faster than, say, a crafting-station'd R2 since they're doing more strenuous activity.

I also don't think giving a player added combat advantage is too big a deal... it's already pretty tough to solo past a certain point anyway (I'm a Brawler with Unarmed IV and 3/4's of the non-blue cons on Tatooine are red to me anyway), so what difference does it make if the group is six players and six droids or 12 players? you'd want the players instead because they can use skills. the droids... shoot.

in short... no certs. no droid handler profession. just low/decent-powered combat droids that require maintenance as a money sink to prevent "free" combat advantage. more business for droid engineers results as well, everybody can have a droid, no one is letting droidekas solo krayts or nightsisters, and a money sink for "rich" players who don't mind paying for yet another choice of combat edge.

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Drashk wrote:

Blue, post the entire thing here. It makes it much easier on me to look it over if I don't have to follow the links first.

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/sigh

Ok. If you really want me to post a 7-page treatise here, I will (pst, for once I've managed to make a post longer that TheRealTK )

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Emras wrote:

Triple or Quadruple the probot Ham

Double The Probot damage

sae armor and resistance

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