CUEmu - Thread Posts

Drashk

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:06 pm

Here is the request that TH has made in the Droid Invasion thread.

Thunderheart wrote:

What I will be doing is watching the thread through the weekend, then I will write up a summary and a takeaway and post it here.

Please do not just post a bunch of links though. It simply becomes a gate to gathering information.

If you feel strongly about one of the major proposals, then post it. Things like, "I like the mini profession because of X" or "I dont like the droid commander direction because of Y" or "I prefer the idea of certifications because of Z".

If you have a whole new proposal then post it, although wild new proposals have a low probability of being included, though if something specatacular surfaced it might be considered.

I would just urge you to consider the "world mechanics" of all the combat possibilities when formulating your opinions.

I implore you to cut and paste your ideas to I implore you to cut and paste your ideas to this thread for the sake of making the information easier to gather. I've got my hands full trying to keep an eye open on the DE forum, the Correspondents forum, the Test Center forum, and still test the new patch. Right now the order that I have been concentrating on are

Patch Bugs/Fixes

Correspondents forum

Droid Engineer forum

Test Center forum

I really haven't been able to keep up with the DE forum because of the huge volume of posts that are being made daily now. I try to read as many as I can, but I'm only human. (Depending on who you ask:smileyvery-happy

Post your Ideas here

We can also use this thread to pull together many of the idea threads that have been bombarding this forum. I have a few requests that I need to make in order to make this easier on me.

This thread is not for discussion. - In order for me, TH, the other devs to have the chance of pulling ideas, please do not discuss the topic here. Use the thread that it was originially posted it.

Post your idea and a link to where this idea is located. - This will help to expand the information by looking at the discussion on each topic. I ask again that the discussion of each idea be left to the original thread

Do not send me PMs requesting me to look at such and such topic. - I've been getting quite a few PMs lately that ask me to look at a topic or to post comments or suggest it to the DEVs. It is much easier to get me to read the idea if it is posted here.

Please do not Flame - If this thread turns into a flame fest, even against the DEVs I will be included to not read it. Flaming includes posting discussion about other ideas.

Please do not use arguements such as 'Well we don't see them in the movies' or 'Droids are sentient beings'. Both of these arguments are not valid since this is SWG and not a 'RL' Star Wars Universe. As I've stated before, SWG is based more accurately around the SW-RPG and that balance is the largest concern. Level 10 droids are for everyone. Any droid that is over Level 10 is the issue.

I appoligize for setting that these critiria be followed, but in order to gather the ideas with the least amount of time on my part will help everyone. If it becomes evident that large amounts of my testing time will be taken away because I have to wade through arguments and flames, I'll just set it aside until I feel the time is right. If I see a thread that is very informative and lists tons of good ideas that should be passed on, I'll squeeze in more time to do so.

Thanks in advanced for 'everyones' cooperation.

Message Edited by Drashk on 01-23-2004 03:07 PM

Making SWG more Star Warsy. One droid at a time.

Lowca_Fatal

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:18 pm

#2

This droid invasion seems like a bust

We need a droid certification system. If you are allowed ranged mitigation 2, then you have an option of purchasing a certification for a medium strength droid for 10 skill points. At ranged mit 3, you can get a heavy strength droid for 25 skill points.

But, alas, we will get a DH profession that NO ONE WILL GET. It will be a waste since CH already exists.

Most likely our experimentation will also never be worth anything.

At least they are getting rid of permadeath, one of my characters are useful

-FaTaL-
Jedi Chef Artisan DE Merchant Weaponsmith Doctor Combat Medic Dancer Musician over too many accounts
450 50 Babelon, Naboo (stocking 440+ brandy)

TheWoody

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:19 pm

#3

Alright. Posting one of the suggestions here

The Dual-Master Hybrid Profession system

short version: two masterships in Skill points, little real change to DE's current profession or situation, Droid Engineers can still be full crafters if they wish or use combat droids,little danger of hologrinders or l33t d00dz destroying profession

Long version:

Here is the Alternate proposal. Droid Engineers are to be the sole receipients of combat droids. This is to be implimented in the same fashion as Creature Handler pets are, with a point system based on how many trees a person has mastered across the profession. Furthermore, the droids are to only go up as high as the level 20-25 range, and no more than two out at any one time, so as to be less powerful than CHs.

Also, to limit the combat "Uber-combos" Droid engineer will gain the requirement of Master Artisan. This change, while drastic on paper, is fairly flimsy in practice. over 85% of the profession is master artisan anyway, so all that would be required would be a couple week 'grace period' before the main patch where all droid engineers would be required to either achieve master artisan or lose the ability to use their DE skills till they achieve this rank.

The reason for this is threefold. First, it requires Droid engineers to spend far more skill points than they would previously in order to gain the ability to use combat skills. Second, it gives no further combat ability. Lastly, it indeed limits the uber-combo ability as less points are there to dedicate into other professions.

A further limiting factor is the sheer complexity in which it takes to build droids to begin with. We require far more parts, materials, and cross-class dependancies than any other profession. Furthermore, this can even be increased with more armoursmith and weaponsmith parts required for the new combat droids.

The hologrinders have had no real effect on the DE profession, nor will they here. why? Because Droids are the most complex and customizable thing in the game. They take a myriad of subcomponents, which in turn require extremely rare materials to build. You'll also be adding on to this the fact that we'll get cross-dependency parts from WS and AS's. Grinders don't have the time for that and pass on before upsetting anything. Combat players won't dabble because they can't without getting MA, which would otherwise be suicide for their hardcore gaming. L33t D00dz are detracted from this profession because it takes a large amount of intelligence and patience to play. We have found a niche, and there is no reason it won't continue providing the droid engineer class continues as it has done.

Finally, this proposal will give us what is the underlying factor about droids both in SWG and in Star Wars: Droids are swiss army knives. They can do almost anything well, but they are not the best at any one field. We can build crafting stations, but they are not as good as architect ones. We can build medical units, but they are not as great as having a central med centre to go to. We can build inventory, but it's not as good as a backpack. We have product that we can sell to many more people than other focused crafting classes, but it's not as good or as expensive as the more specialized ones. Now finally, we can build combat droids, but they are not as good as professions focused solely on combat abilities. This would make our profession truly unique and what the DE populous is searching for:A jack-of-all trades profession

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=54029#M54029

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"Never in the field of forum posting has so much bollocks been said to so many by so few"

BlueMorgoth

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:23 pm

#4

I put together a complete proposal including skill trees, mods, certs and commands in this thread

This idea is somewhat of a CH clone, but with the "taming" side turned to droid capture. Based on feedback and more thinking over the past couple of days I am going to rework it a bit more to focus on the capture and add in more emphasis on reverse engineering and analysis of the droids. Where I am trying to get the DM profession to go is to drive more droid content into the game. The goal of the DM is combat, but with the aim to capture droids for the vital information that they may contain. Thus, droids become more integral in the game in taht you may need the information out of them in order to progress to some other part of the game. Disable and analysis is thus prefered over click and spam specials until dead.

Sox na'Kreyte : Wanderer, looking for professional counciling
Retired Master Droid Engineer, Master Merchant, Master Artisan,
Titzosh Irssoko: Master Chef, TKM
Tyrena, Corellia (-4027, -2324), Bria

Drashk

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:28 pm

#5

Blue, post the entire thing here. It makes it much easier on me to look it over if I don't have to follow the links first.

Making SWG more Star Warsy. One droid at a time.

Soronume

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:36 pm

#6

This whole DH concept is making me sick to my stomach.

I love the DE profession because it adds droids to the game. Not because it gives me the chance to solo a Rancor, but because droids are part of life in the star wars universe.

If all the devs can come up with is a droid skin on the CH/BE codebase, then screw it. We don’t need that garbage. Let’s just get the devs to expand our usefulness to the rest of the game. We have spent months coming up with other ideas that kick so much more ass than any level 25 roger-roger would ever approach.

1)

Let’s use our dev time to increase our sellable items:

Make BLL’s that let people move houses without taking all the items out first, or reduce the cost of a re-deed.

Make modules that increase the success % of weaponsmiths and armorsmiths repairing items.

Make modules that decrease a slicers failure rate, or let them narrow down the choices of things to improve (right now it’s random, what if having an r2 out let it only be random among 3 chosen stats rather than 6?)

2)

I think we need to continue the BH droid style of synergy. Since the early days DEs have provided BH droids that haven't broken the game. So we copy that pattern and beef up the DZ70’s except we make them expendable items. Make them stronger, but make them non-repairable. So you pull out your dz20 and he lasts for 5 battles. Great. But now it’s dead. So you have to pull out another. Could do the same with probots.

3)

Go ahead and bite the bullet and let us have more than one droid out at a time. Limit it to 2 non-combat droids, and add a check in the creature code “if target = droid, ignore” so now I can’t just pull out a mouse droid to divert attacks from me. What happened when r2 and 3p0 ran across the deck between the rebels and imps in the opening minutes of ep4? NOTHING. They were IGNORED.

4)

Don’t give us the droidekas, make them like AT-AT’s and let the Event people dump a half dozen on us sometime. Anything else that is over level 10 should come from faction points (ala stormtrooper pets and atst's)

I love what DE is. I hate that the devs want us to become a combat feeder class. DE’s can be the pulse of SWG. But if we let them make us BE clones with different sprites then what is the point?

My Glowie

Barfalomue

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:37 pm

#7

You may have seen this already, but I cut & pasted this from another one of my posts:

________________________

I have created this thread because my other thread was innocently misunderstood by TH, and manyreaders there then followed his thought. It was beginning to look like the blind leading the deaf at night. (I'm sorry, couldn't help myself, TH, keep reading.

Another reason I have started this thread is to combine all of our thoughts into just one good one. (At least the good that I have seen from other post.)

To start off please understand: There is no want nor need by DE or anyone else to create a Droid Handler profession. This summation of our ideas adapts all existing professions and does NOT add any additional whatsoever. It also does not include certifications. This idea would provide an equal share to anyone wanting to use a droid. With ability to advance them, if that individual pleases. SO PLEASE DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND. THIS IDEA DOES NOT NEGOTIATE A DH PROFESSION NOR CERTIFICATIONS. IT TAKES ADVANTAGE OF EVERYTHING IN THE GAME ALREADY.

Ok. First let me summarize the ideas. Then I will follow it up with a way to incorporate each into the existing game (as per popular interests from other posts).

Ideas:

Droids have their own Skill Tree, available to them only, part of them. This is not a branch nor independent tree as part of a player's skill trees. (please do not confuse the two.).
Droids are modifiable, upgradeable, and master-oriented with DE providing Upgrades and Training.
Droid's Skills are able to be progressed and bettered through their being used for what they are designed.
Droids are co-player maintained. (Droid Decay & Destruction)
Droids providing balance in the game and following TH's requirements for pets plus some additional reinforcements.

Explanation and Integration into our game:

#1: Droids have their own Skill Tree, available to them only, part of them. This is not a branch nor independent tree as part of a player's skill trees. (please do not confuse the two.).

Ok, just to re-iterate to keep from miscommunication or misunderstanding, I will explain this concept in detail.

With this idea, droids would have their own skill tree. This means it would be separate from the player. Consider the droid as an NPC Player. Think of it as (and this may be lame, but good popularly-known explanation) **edit**. Their handlers did not learn the skills the **edit** use. The **edit** learn the skills the **edit** use. You can also think of it somewhat as a part of something in SWG now. Socketed Clothing. When you add a SKILLTAPE, it modifies your clothing, not your player tree. So in essence, the Droids here would have the ability to unlock new "sockets," if you will (skill tree blocks), for you to add pre-designated skills which are governed by that Skill Tree Block, just as in a standard Skill Tree...These skills which would modify the droid, giving it new options, new capabilities and newupgrades. Which, brings me to #2.

#2: Droids are modifiable, upgradeable, and master-oriented with DE providing Upgrades and Training.

Ok, these upgrades and options are determined by skills learned through the Droid's Skill Tree. Options could be swappable weapon attachments, storage containers, personality chips. (Perhaps a droid can only be stupid to start off, but progress after learning new skills). Perhaps a "Droid Personal Generator" is an option at some point in the Droid's skill tree which would allow it to not consume baterries as quickly, or at all, depending on level/quality of droid/generator.

All training would be applied by a DE. Droid attachments would be swapped out by Droid Engineers. This will aid in keeping Droids in demand.

#3: Droid's Skills are able to be progressed and bettered through their being used for what they are designed.

To kind of backtrack, droids can advance with use. Whether used for utility or combat, a droid gains abilities based on its design through using it. Since we are all 'battle-droid' savy, I will use this for an example.

A battle droid has a basic blaster. The droid's master takes it out hunting. It kills off 50 Durni (rotten little rodents. :smileywink. After 50 Durni kills, a mesage pops on your screen: "Battle Droid 'Droideka-007' has ability to learn new skill(s). Would you like to look at it's skill tree now?" With option "Yes" or "No." You select "Yes." This takes you to that particular Droid's Skill tree, also accessable through Droid's Radial Menu in datapad. Just for example: You see there are: "Weapon Enhancements," "Efficiency," "Battle Movements," and "Defensive Capabilities." So you look them over and decide you want "Weapon Enhancements 1: Medium Ranged Weapons." This would include carbine and small rifle-like weapons. So, you contact a DE and ask him what he has to offer. The DE replies to you by saying: "I can make Droideka Rotating Blaster Attachment." All is well. You meet with the DE. He trains (to be explained later) the droid, creates the new weapon, removes the old (which by default is destroyed upon removal) and attaches it to the droid. Returning it to the stamped master (to be explained later), the stamped master finds his droid with the new skill and a new weapon attachment (not just different fire coming from its gun, change the graphic as well). So the master of the droid takes the droid off to continue his quest.

This all kind of hatches a bit into #4.

#4: Droids are co-player maintained. (Droid Decay & Destruction)

All too often, I see that people have vehicles and pets. Once they are purchased, rarely do they need replaced. This drives the market down and take away from the SWG players. I propose, and many have added to this idea, that we create a co-player maintenance on droids. Explained in #3 is the idea of weapons, or upgrades and training. Those are a part of it. But more than that, I think the weapon/utility attachments on the droids should have a decay rate determined by amount of use and quality of attachment. This would keep DE in their field, and not have it dither away after everyone has the best droid in the galaxy. Perhaps make these weapon/utility attachments repairable with a "repair kit" available to anyone for use, but only created by DE. However, everytime the droid's attachments are repaired, if successful (as with armor, it can fail sometimes), the attachment automatically and with no-choiceloses 5-10% of its current max condition. Possibly add in the case of when it reaches 50% of its original manufactured status, it loses 5% effetiveness for every 10% it drops in condition. This would inevitably mean that at some point they are going to have to have it replaced/upgraded. Also, a repair kit to heal the Droid's HAM during battle could be incorporated. This would be similar to a Pet Stim.

I think this would add a personal touch to each droid, rarely having one droid exactly as any other.

#5: Droids providing balance in the game and following TH's requirements for pets plus some additional reinforcements.

I will explain my thought of Master Stamping before I answer #5.

Master Stamping - This would be where when a droid begins to learn skills, it is Stamped to that Master. The skills it attains are solely at use to he/she who was with it when it learned those skills.

OK, now balance/requirement meeting.

This is going to be a bit difficult to explain, but I will give it a shot. I suppose the best wayis to explain the life of a droid in this system from its original assembly.

I, a DE, create a Droideka to sell. I attach a basic weapon to it. I get a message in-game: "Do you have a droideka for sale?" "Yes." I answer. He comes to me and pays me for the droid and takes it.

He (let's call him Bob)...Bob takes the droid and engages in battle. The droid has ability to learn a new skill. Bob comes back to me, trades me the droid, tells me the skill he wants (which then requires 3 of Bob's Skill Points, AND 2000 of his Combat Experience) Bob says "OK." I call the droid and begin to teach it the new skill. A message is sent to Bob: "Aspi has decided to teach your Droid 'Weapon Enhancements 1: Medium Ranged Weapons.' This skill will cost you 2000 Combat Experience Points and 3 Skill Points. Will you allow Aspi to train you droid?" Bob Selects "No." acidentally. A message ghosts on Aspi's screen: "Bob has declined your offer to train his droid." Bob says: "Oops. I didn't mean to do that, can you try again?" So they get it sorted out. The droid learns the new skill and Bob pays me to attacha new weapon to his droid.

Bob gets the droid to a mid-level droid. He decides he is going to change his profession to Entertainer. So, he figures he no longer needs the droid. He decides to sell the Droid. Tim comes along and buys the droid. (this is where droid stamping comes in). Bob trades the droid to Tim. Tim notices the droid has 2/2/2/3 across its Skill Tree. "Hmm nice. Too bad I can't use it, LOL." So Bob and Tim go their separate ways.

Tim takes the Droid and tells it to attack a Durni. The Droid does not attack. But rather, a message is sent to Tim: "Are you sure you want to remove Stamped Skills from Droideka-007?" He selects "Yes." A ghost text appears on Tim's Screen: "Droideka-007 has insufficient skills to use 'Rotating Blaster Attachment.' "

Tim brings it to me and pays me to swap its weapon out for the basic weapon.

Over time, Tim levels his Droid. It dies a few times. He gets it to almost "Master Assault Droideka" status and it dies for the 15th time (subject to change). Upon it's 15th incap, a Ghosted Message appears on Tim's screen: "Your droid has suffered massive damage and is irrepairable, please select destroy from datapad." (this # of lives would be reset if traded between players. This would keep from someone saying they are selling a new droid, when it is on its last life.) Alternate to this, is maybe have the droid lose all of its Skills on its 9th death or something, rather than having it completely destroyed. I think the 2nd option would be best. people may be affraid to spend money on a droid in fear of it being lost (but it is reality).

---There are a few things this story does not cover. That being an additional balancing technique. Each type of droid (battle, entertainer, utility) derives its skills dependent upon its master's abilities. For example, a battle droid would work off of its master's Combat XP. An entertainer would work off of its master's Entertainer XP and a utility Droid would run off of General XP (i.e. The idea of a droid to maintain harvesters, may run off of some basix xp. Whatever the master's original chosen profession from character creation may be...that could be a possibility, but may cause concern for people who may have dropped that profession), or a crafter's xp if the droid is being used for its complimenting crafting abilities.

This would limit combat use to combatants, entertaining abilities to entertainers and so forth...keeping each person to his/her own profession. That would be a fair balance in the game. In real life, a librarian is not going to have a Tank in her purse just because someone might come along and start a war with her...LOL. She would want an organizer, a caclulator, date book, etc...to assist her with her daily duties at the library.Same with a policeman. He/She wouldn't have Martha Stewart Livingitems in his trunk because he likes to assist law-offenders in tideying up their homes before he drags them to jail. LOL. People want droids to compliment their own skills and professions. Someone with Entertainer can not have their Droid learn Combat Skills. But, if you are an entertainer and a Marksman, you could have 2 droids. An entertainer Droid and a combat Droid. Please don't retort to this by saying you want multi-tasking Droids. I never saw a Droideka in the movies suddenly stop killing to take some time in a cantina to play a few bars of the newest hippest song. LOL.

To clear up a possible misunderstanding. Let's say you are a warrior. You have a combat droid. It is a master combat droid. You drop your entire combat profession to become a dancer. The droid will retain those skills, but they will be lost if you try to use it in battle. It keeps them there in case you decide to go back to combat profession. (This is a little dicey, perhaps a small modification in concept on the DEVS' part would clear it up.)

In closing, I hope this clears up any misunderstanding from my previous post:

(cant paste it here, LOL)

Please add your comments here, I hope a Moderator, TH or the like, take a look at this and think it over. I feel, as I am sure many of my readers will as well, that this would be a wonderful addition to this game. Personally, I would be willing to wait a few extra weeks or months to see this type of thing brought into this game. It would definitely get my attention REAL QUICK!

______________________

__________________________________________________________
~Aspi, Tempest, Master Droid Engineer-Master Artisan-Master Merchant-Master Pistoleer Retiree~Vendors-JaxBay Tent Mall
~~~Wearer of Sword of Opinion (+20 to pucker factor attack)~~~
~~"Is that a cookie in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"~~

TheRealTK421

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:40 pm

#8

Drashk wrote:

Please do not Flame - If this thread turns into a flame fest, even against the DEVs I will be included to not read it. Flaming includes posting discussion about other ideas.

Drashk,

What does the item in yellow mean?

I'm not sure what you mean by not being able to post about other ideas.

Do you mean things like: "Why don't we have survey droids", etc?

/bow

Respectfully,

TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"

SWG DE Correspondent

Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)

"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."

Virtanis

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:41 pm

#9

This is my 3rd repost of this idea... I apologize if repostingthis upsets anyone, but I'm very passionate about this particular view:

Thunderheart wrote:

Operating droids is a critical issue and I know you folks wanted to get involved in this discussion as soon as possible.

Funny... we've been asking for direct Dev comments and communication in the DE forums for months and just now we're getting some actual information on these plans.... deep into Publish 6? This is extremely disappointing and the developers must make every effort to not do this again, for Droid Engineers or any profession.

Thunderheart wrote:

The key design challenges are:

The cost of droids (ala having them as power pets and combat tools) has to counterbalance the combat advantages they give to the player. The core advantages are:

The power level of the pets

Number of pets (droids in this case)

The design has to fit into the existing skill/experience point scheme

I understand your framework, it's a game with rules and balance afterall... but there are some serious misconceptions the Developers are under, in my opinion. I'll point them out below, with elaboration.

Developer Misconception #1: Droids must equal the power of Creatures.

Wrong. There is a significant number of Droid Engineers who disagree that the highest power of combat droid made available to DE's must equal that of the highest Creature Pet level. I am among them. I challenge anyone to disagree with me after I point out one visual fact. The most powerful droid represented in the movies (Droideka of Episode 1 or perhaps the Super Battle Droid of Episode 2) cannot and does not equal the destructive force of the most powerful creature pet from the movies (Rancor from Episode 6). You'll find many DE's are perfectly happy with the limited ability to call a level 20 or level 25 droid. This also meshes well with the point raised in another post that the Empire at this time has outlawed high power combat droids for personal use. There is simply no need to apply such drastic force to mutate the Droid Engineer profession to fit into a BE/CH formula. We can, and should be, different. There is simply no need for this! A DE community that has been yearning for more combat ability yet content with a crafting role for so long, does not need to be sated with such a drastic change. Moderation is key!

Developer Misconception #2: It is fair to add new professions without care for current ones.

Wrong. You are painfully treading on the toes of three communities with this change. A. Droid Engineer players (who have patiently waited for months and months to see desperately needed attention given to their profession, especially with the introduction of new droid combat chassis). B. Bio Engineer players (who undoubtedly are relishing their new found uniqueness and value to ALL players in the game). C. Creature Handler players (who have endured much pain and suffering over the many months of struggle and strife only to find a new, "equal" profession to challenge their abilities and stature!) By adding this fourth, new profession to the game: you are alienating and ignoring THREE groups of players who are already in the game. You are toying with and altering PLAYER'S professions.... Speaking as a Master Droid Engineer, I announce plainly that this idea of a Droid Handler/Master profession is deeply worrisome to me and all the other players who have patiently waited for their neglected Droid Engineer profession to see some daylight and hope.

Developer Misconception #3: This discussion must revolve around combat droids.

Wrong. This debate so heavily revolving around combat is truly and inherently unnecessary. This discussion is becoming such a huge topic only because everyone, Developers included, DO NOT want to see the return of "Pet Wars", only to be replaced with "Droid Wars". This is a very valid concern, however; legions of powerful combat droids following every player around would simply not happen if a moderate, sane approach were taken to this question! I refer you back to Misconception #1: the addition of low to moderate combat droids would not require such a hefty and game-altering change (the DH profession). Again, if lower to moderate level combat droids were introduced into the DE tree without the introduction of droid handler profession, the questions and concerns of balance and fairness for all players are much more easily solved, and vanish entirely. DE's who do not wish to participate in combat and wish to focus on crafting have that choice, while those who might want to aide in the struggle will have a small selection of fair, balanced, and competent combat droids to command.

Developer Misconception #4: DE's are a pure crafter class.

Wrong. This is a serious misconception but a very understandable one. To understand the true intent of the Droid Engineer you need to step out of whatever paradigm you're in. You must understand that, in essence, we are a different breed of profession entirely, neither crafter nor combattant. The DE profession should thrive on utility and versatility. Our products: Droids, were meant to be the "swiss army knives of the galaxy". The Droid Engineer provides Droids: We build through Droids... We augment other professions through our Droids... We make life easier for others through our Droids, We combat through our Droids, and everyone uses our droids. We are not a combat class, nor are we a crafter class. Droid Engineers are a facilitating class: useful to ALL players and professions. This should be our aim. This should be our goal. Do not paint DE's into one black or white corner: we are the oddballs, the unclassifiables, the techies, the helpers, the bringers, and the tinkerers. Yes, it's true we craft our products... but DE's should do so much more. We need a refocus on utility, we need a refocus on modules that can help ALL professions, we need Droids to be elevated to a state they truly deserve: a utility tool that touches every aspect of Star Wars Galaxies; not just another soulless weapon system or useless trinket.

THE SOLUTION:

1. DO NOT implement a Droid Handler / Droid Master Class.

2. INTRODUCE many, many more utility modules to the DE class... Hundreds of ideas can be found in the DE forums and we invite ALL professions to make module suggestions to help THEIR professions.

3. FIX the current extensive litany of Droid Engineer bugs.

4. ADD the Droid Repair pack. Vital to make CL 10 combat droids useable by ALL players now!!! We suffer with our droids not being able to be repaired like creature pets!

5. MODIFY the DE skilltree: granting CL +5, CL +5, and CL +5 modifiers at various boxes in the tree.

6. DEPLOY 3-4 new combat chassis schematics to the DE skilltree, using built in subtle differences and abilities for differing combat situations. Configurations should be used including non-lethal "Combat Utility Modules" (I have a post on this in the DE Forums) which help ALL professions and players.

THE REWARDS:

1. 90% of the DE population is against the DH idea... they are happy with no DH.

2. "Droid Wars" is avoided.

3. DE's retain core crafting abilities.... with a heavy focus on utility for ALL players.

4. DE's gain a balanced, fair, modest combat ability in keeping with game fairness and the genre.

"You Droid Engineers have had to suffer through some tough times. The Devs do not hate the profession and have plans to address some of the larger concerns."
- Q-3PO 10/23/03 1st Annual Droid Engineering Academy Awards
- Fortium - Master Droid Engineer - Master Artisan - Grumpy Advocate for Droids and DE's -
- Proprietor of CF Industries Droidworks -
Naboo: -6600, 3450; Tatooine: -680, -4290; Dantooine: -772, 2860; Corellia: -140, -5500;

Sodan-droiddreamer

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:47 pm

#10

I'll post these in ideas in brief. They don't all need to be implemented. Its a grab bag:

1. Put low level CL 10+ to CL 20 or 25 certs in Novice droid engineer. but put those droid chassis and combat modules high up in the DE tree. Lets DEs sell and use droids to dabblers who must take Engnering and Novice DE

2. Give all combat droid certs to DEs; the tougher the droid, the higher on the tree. Make Master Artisan a pre-req. Require one lvl four skill combat skill from Brawler or Marksman for use of Combat droids.

3. Give all combat droid certs to DEs, don't require MA, but require Master Artisan component: combat droid contol pad. To be made by the user and used by the user who made it. -- no drop item.

4.Give all combat droid certs to DE, but INCREASE the number of skil points required (one month grace period or less to drop ther skills).

5. This is Jenden's idea but I kindof like it. Controlling heavy combat droids causes mind encumberance.

6. Rather than DE is to DH as BE is to CH, make it DE is to DH as Doctor is to Combat Medic. That is DEs can use all the droids they can build, but only the droid handler gets significant combat bonuses for their use. Droid Handlers can build only build combat droidsand have a HEAVY reliance on DE for components. DEs can mak all droids. Better yet DHs only SLICE droids. DHs get ability to overcharge droids (time-limitd buff, drains juice or condition). DEs make driod repair packs for condition. Make DH a full combat profession with bonuses to the DH himself for combat in separate skilltrees. That way DEs and DHs can mix and math skill trees like Docs and Combat Medics do. Benefit of being DHs is MAJOR combat bonuses. Benefit if being DE is crafting and the honor of using their best droids though not as well as DHs.

7. Rename Droid Engineer to Combat Droid Engineer -- up skill requirements and add combat and Master Artisan pre-reqs. Make it a a hybrid combat class. Pure crafters canstay home and have fun, hybrid loves have fun. Combat DEs not meting the combat reqs cant use combat droids. SMUGGLER IS ALREADY A HYBRID PROFESSION. Smugglers craft and combat. They make factoy runs and fight in the streets.

8. Fill in ANY idea whereby DROID engineers can use all the DROIDS they mak except skill-based doids like BH droids.

Sodan Droiddreamer (GEGN)
Sodan's Exotic Droidgarten - In Bohemian Grove (Geigen Shuttle), Tatooine (6156 7275)

Drashk

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:59 pm

#11

Sorry TK, bad multi-tasking on my part. I was trying to do to many things at the same time. It should have read something like.

Flaming includes posting follow up discussion on previously posted ideas in this thread that you do not agree wtih and wish to deconstruct.

So, please no "Doughbacca-style break-down(tm)" on any of the concepts listed here.

Making SWG more Star Warsy. One droid at a time.

ResourceMonkey

Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:01 pm

#12

Here is a copy of my thoughts:

As a MDE, I am currently asked for BH droids as well as the occasional crafting station droid with a 110 med unit attached. For the latter, people ask for the frame that they like but many of my requests can be placed into a mouse droid. There is no technical bonus in using a Mouse droid over an R5 other than the amount of resources needed to make them.

Looking at it from a programming issue, there would be a great amount of coding required for many of the suggestions listed. Although I would LOVE to be able to send a droid to maintain my harvesters, the amount of coding involved would be rather large. I am not saying don't do it, but I am looking at what can be done in a short amount of time. To that end, add specalties to the droids that already exist. Examples are:

Have a BLL able to have a max 20 storage units but no stations

Make it so that you can put power into a Power Droid and then it can input that power into a harvester or factory at 125% of that you put into it.

Have surgical droids reduce the HAM cost of healing by half but unable to have any other station in it but a med station. (While we're at it, make a difference between the Med stations. I don't notice a difference between a Med 4 module and a Med 6).

I agree that some of the experimentation issues should be addressed - even just giving them longer battery time would work.

As for combat droids - I too want to make Droidikas. Love the way they look. But I don't believe a Cert system/DH classshould be implemented. I also don't believe that some low level character should be able to waltz around with a massive combat droid just because someone gave them a present. I would say that having a failure chance of it following orders would work to curb this. The percentage could be affected by the number of skill points the character has spent and, possibly, added bonuses for skills in DE (why not ask for the stars? ) There is currently a system in place that figures the difficulty of a mission - why not have something similiar for "only combat" droids? They have an X% chance of a droid not listening to the order given toit - the chance increasing with the strength of the unit being used and decreasing with the experience of the character handling it. If they want to get really technical (not sure the amount of programming needed) but the 'control' of the droid could increase depending upon how longa characteruse that specific droid. So after X amount of commands listened to, the droid will do whatever its owner says 100% of the time. However, if that droid is traded, it resets.

Also, I believe in the storyline that combat droids are currently illegal in the universe. Why not have any 'only combat' droids automatically have a TEF against any law official types - from Fed Dub to Imperial troops.

FRUGA HAS LEFT THE GALAXY - Good luck all, I'm done with this game - Account Closed 9/10/2004
with a two month visit again from 6/05-7/05

Upon launch of JTL - An Empire Deserted (no one on planet) Coming in 2005! "Star Wars Galaxies: The Jedi Empire"

IndieTech

Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:38 pm

#13

Ok. here goes

Howdy,

Being a dabbler DE for months now (2114) and lurking the DE boards I have come to repsect the pateience and creative process that inhabits this discussion forum. In light of the past 3 days of posts counter posts, flames and et all. There was a nice respite given by our flashy newish correspondent with insights from both his offical forum hat and his player hat.

In one of his well thought out posts, he touched on possible ideas if the cert system wouldnt go thru. Part of it suggested a new hybrid profession, with prerequistes as Engineering IV and Ranged Support IV. This got me thinking. There are a number of professions that used Ranged Support IV as pre req's, the most notably is Combat Medic. In that vein, I suggest the Combat Engineer.

As a minimum, the CE will be able to use combat droids, field support droids and repair em in the field. Additionally, the CE idea can also account for possible expansion upgrades for artillery, fixing Turrets(dunno about this one) and enhancing a squads fire suppression and flushing capabilites with bonuses akin to Squad Leaders, but in different areas. Significant bonuses so it would make sense to have a CE in your squad.

Possible abilites that might be included but could be gamebreaking:

Range extension bonuses, derived from support droids with larger sensor radius (Commandos at 75range? and not an exploit? )
Field Repair - auto with repair droids(Tanking with a high armor, low dam droid with 2+ repair droids behind it)

There is more but my time is limited

I hope to see some good criticism and more creative ideasto give to our correspondent and ultimately to the devs.

Thanks for reading.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=54952

(original topic)

Parthos Kincaid

Corellia Sector Force, Commander-in-Chief

Rebel Alliance of Naritus
"The flame of rebellion may sputter, but it will never die.."

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